Binos Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 11 minutes ago, BFTD said: Really hoping to be wrong, but Shankland does look like being one of our occasional strikers who scores at Scottish Premiership/English Football League level, but is only good for a goal against Liechtenstein or Gibraltar. I think Conway will start 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
++Ammo - Airdrie++ Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 36 minutes ago, Richey Edwards said: Congratulations on your first Scotland game m8. I'll be honest, I don't particularly enjoy International football (I watch the tournaments) but my daughter wanted to see Scotland so this was one of the easier ones to get tickets for, for the first time. Still hope they win all the same. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters Scotch Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 (edited) 3 hours ago, craigkillie said: The announcement about the South American teams was nearly 3 years ago, I don't think I was claiming otherwise, I gave the exact date in my post. How long ago it was isn't the relevant part, the gap between it being announced and England being relegated to League B is what is relevant, since the argument being made by you and the Master revolves around the assumption that this Nations League format was designed BEFORE England's relegation (since otherwise, the fact they were in League B would already have been known). You are right to say that England weren't guaranteed to be relegated in June 2022, but it looked very likely. The other two teams likely to be relegated from the group at that point were Germany and Italy, who are also clearly elite nations - the only "non-elite" team were Hungary, who topped the group. So to any observer looking in at that stage, it was pretty clear that an elite team would be relegated. Incidentally, France were also bottom of their group at this stage, albeit with more chance of survival than England. So again, I find it unlikely that UEFA would not have been expecting an elite team to be in League B as of June 2022. Your reading of those FIFA regulations is clearly very different from mine. It explicitly states that the World Rankings should be the predominant method used for seeding, and that any variation at all requires FIFA's permission. It is therefore not at all clear that FIFA would agree to an approach which completely ignores World Rankings, which is the central point of your argument. You have also overlooked the point I made about these regulations (created June 2023) not even existing at the stage where the new Nations League format was released (January 2023) - in the absence of any other information, you'd therefore be expecting the qualifying rules to be the same at this stage. I can absolutely imagine UEFA lobbying to use the Nations League rankings for seedings (as they also did for the 2022 World Cup), and I can imagine this clause being inserted partly as a result of this lobbying, but there will also be a reason why FIFA have still insisted on their rankings as being the predominant factor in seeding. There will be a big difference in FIFA's eyes from an system which is almost entirely based on World Rankings but deviates slightly for operational reasons (ie this proposed approach) and one which completely abandons World Rankings (the approach which a handful of bloggers speculated about and you seem to have taken as gospel). This conversation is boring as f**k, why can't the mods remove this "shite" Edited September 5 by Butters Scotch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richey Edwards Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 2 minutes ago, ++Ammo - Airdrie++ said: I'll be honest, I don't particularly enjoy International football (I watch the tournaments) but my daughter wanted to see Scotland so this was one of the easier ones to get tickets for, for the first time. Still hope they win all the same. International football is a load of shite. However, have a great day regardless. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bing Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 4 minutes ago, Butters Scotch said: This conversation is boring as f**k, why can't the mods remove this "shite" Indeed or have a seperate thread with a title like "international football fixture and seeding permutations". Sure it will be a riot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters Scotch Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 (edited) 23 minutes ago, BFTD said: Really hoping to be wrong, but Shankland does look like being one of our occasional strikers who scores at Scottish Premiership/English Football League level, but is only good for a goal against Liechtenstein or Gibraltar. We need to be moving on from the failed Shankland experiment, the guy is not international standard and looks like he is towing a caravan anytime he plays. We need a striker that will make an impact either that through their phsyical presence (Dykes) or someone that can make smart forward runs into the channels and getting behind the defence using their pace (Conway). Despite us not seeing the best of Adams in a Scotland shirt, he has enough about him but we need to find a way to best use his talent. I put his poor performances more down to the tactics we are deploying where our strikers are quote often isolated majority of the game. If Clarke is taking a more attacking approach then I can see Adams becoming a better fit for this team than previously. Edited September 5 by Butters Scotch 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 Just now, Binos said: I think Conway will start One of the problems with the lack of friendlies is that it's more difficult for coaches to take a punt on newcomers to the squad; we never should have ended up needing a totally untried striker to replace one of our main guys at a tournament. Some of that can be laid at Sir Steve's feet, but occasion are limited where we don't need to play our best team, or give them match time for fitness or squad cohesion reasons. Conway should absolutely have had a few games by now, but imagine the fury if he gets 90 minutes today and we don't score. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binos Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 (edited) 20 minutes ago, BFTD said: One of the problems with the lack of friendlies is that it's more difficult for coaches to take a punt on newcomers to the squad; we never should have ended up needing a totally untried striker to replace one of our main guys at a tournament. Some of that can be laid at Sir Steve's feet, but occasion are limited where we don't need to play our best team, or give them match time for fitness or squad cohesion reasons. Conway should absolutely have had a few games by now, but imagine the fury if he gets 90 minutes today and we don't score. I think Conway is the one in form Edited September 5 by Binos 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkoRaj Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 18 minutes ago, Butters Scotch said: We need to be moving on from the failed Shankland experiment.  Can you really call 3 friendly starts and a few sub appearances a failed experiment? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quentin Taranbino Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 I still have a free ticket in north stand if anyone wants it 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennie makevin Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 4 hours ago, Alan Twelve said: According to Clarke, Forrest showed up to the camp, was assessed by the Scotland medical team and then withdrew from the squad. I don't know what else you expect them to do. Throw himself screaming on the nations mercy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSJ.84 Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 42 minutes ago, Butters Scotch said: We need to be moving on from the failed Shankland experiment, the guy is not international standard and looks like he is towing a caravan anytime he plays. We need a striker that will make an impact either that through their phsyical presence (Dykes) or someone that can make smart forward runs into the channels and getting behind the defence using their pace (Conway). Despite us not seeing the best of Adams in a Scotland shirt, he has enough about him but we need to find a way to best use his talent. I put his poor performances more down to the tactics we are deploying where our strikers are quote often isolated majority of the game. If Clarke is taking a more attacking approach then I can see Adams becoming a better fit for this team than previously. Agree on the main, though I don’t think it’s fair to call Shankland a failed excitement. He has his uses but I’m not convinced as a starter against the stronger nations - albeit I thought he was pretty decent again The Netherlands. Horses for courses, as Numbers would say. Dykes against the best, Adams against the mediums, Shankland against the ‘should beat’. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters Scotch Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 (edited) 10 minutes ago, PSJ.84 said: Agree on the main, though I don’t think it’s fair to call Shankland a failed excitement. He has his uses but I’m not convinced as a starter against the stronger nations - albeit I thought he was pretty decent again The Netherlands. Horses for courses, as Numbers would say. Dykes against the best, Adams against the mediums, Shankland against the ‘should beat’. Shankland played the whole game against Gilbraltar and did Hee Haw. He has had more chances than other fringe players to cement his place in the first 11 but hasn't really delivered, it was like playing with ten men at times. I like Shankland and is a good player in Scotland but theres a reason he hasn't been picked up by the old firm despite his goalscoring records or a team outside of Scotland barring Beerschot where he failed in an average league, he just isn't technically sound enough to play at a higher level IMO. Edited September 5 by Butters Scotch 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 32 minutes ago, Binos said: I think Conway is the one in form He's scored the same number of Championship goals as Dykes this season, and his was a penalty. Going further back, he's only scored 5 league goals this year and 3 of them were penalties. Dykes has 4, none of which were penalties. Very much slim pickings amongst our striking options - Shankland scored a lot last season but has obviously been in rotten form this year so far. I think Conway looks like a good player, but I have a feeling people are expecting a goalscorer when to me he seems more of a Kenny Miller type pest, albeit maybe a bit bigger. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu2910 Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 As much as it's often seen, quite reasonably, as a joke, would Simon Murray really be that bad of an option for Scotland? After Adams, Dykes, Conway and Shankland, the only other one in contention is surely Nisbet. Murray is certainly no world beater and has only managed to step up from joke figure in the last 12 months, but he's quick, a physical nuisance and a goalscorer and I'm not sure any of our other options meet all of those criteria. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONTROOPER Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 Just now, stu2910 said: As much as it's often seen, quite reasonably, as a joke, would Simon Murray really be that bad of an option for Scotland? After Adams, Dykes, Conway and Shankland, the only other one in contention is surely Nisbet. Murray is certainly no world beater and has only managed to step up from joke figure in the last 12 months, but he's quick, a physical nuisance and a goalscorer and I'm not sure any of our other options meet all of those criteria. Thats uncanny...I was thinking exactly this. Murray is definately an 'in form' player and deserves his go . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 22 minutes ago, MarkoRaj said: Can you really call 3 friendly starts and a few sub appearances a failed experiment? This is often the problem with our strikers. Old P&B favourite Jordan Rhodes ended up in the "not good enough" category after 14 caps, but he only started three games over six years, and plenty of folk had dismissed him pretty early on. Considering Shankland's age, it's likely he'll end up with a similar record for Scotland, and the same thing's happening here. I know international sides don't play anything like as many games, but most folk don't make up their minds about their club's players that fast. We do rather expect them to hit the ground running, and it's all the stranger considering the international manager doesn't get to shop about in the transfer market. With our strikers, it almost always comes down to "doesn't fit in with our manager's tactics" rather than "not good enough". 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connor7 Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 1 hour ago, Bobcat said: How many tickets have been sold for the match tonight More tickets in the South upper got made available a few weeks back. Rest of the stadium looks sold out. 45k approx? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 25 minutes ago, stu2910 said: As much as it's often seen, quite reasonably, as a joke, would Simon Murray really be that bad of an option for Scotland? After Adams, Dykes, Conway and Shankland, the only other one in contention is surely Nisbet. Murray is certainly no world beater and has only managed to step up from joke figure in the last 12 months, but he's quick, a physical nuisance and a goalscorer and I'm not sure any of our other options meet all of those criteria. If I thought Simon Murray could do a job I’d have no bother giving him the chance. Whats really incredible is that we appear to have so few strikers who qualify to play for Scotland and who are halfway decent.  Surely to f**k there must be more Scottish born players or players with Scottish heritage who could play as a number 9.    0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binos Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 40 minutes ago, craigkillie said: He's scored the same number of Championship goals as Dykes this season, and his was a penalty. Going further back, he's only scored 5 league goals this year and 3 of them were penalties. Dykes has 4, none of which were penalties. Very much slim pickings amongst our striking options - Shankland scored a lot last season but has obviously been in rotten form this year so far. I think Conway looks like a good player, but I have a feeling people are expecting a goalscorer when to me he seems more of a Kenny Miller type pest, albeit maybe a bit bigger. More of a hold up man than dykes But the pickings agreed are very slim Someone definitely in form, our former striker adams 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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