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Israel And The Palestinians (now with added Iran)


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3 hours ago, coprolite said:

Have we established that the reports of airstrikes on evacuating civilians are false then? 

And that "even though there's nowhere to go and you might struggle to get there, you've 24 hours to f**k off or we'll blow you up?" counts as "fair"?

For balance, what Hamas has said it wants to do probably meets the definition of genocide too. But they don't have Western governments cheering them on.

It's not nice for sure but it certainly means it's not genocide. If they really wanted to kill and main as many Palestinians as possible the death toll we hear about would have zeroes on the end. And while it's a bit close for nuking they do have them.

Hamas' actions certainly fit the bill closer. They have the will, what they lack is the capacity. With Israel it's the other way round.

 

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After seeing the horrible videos of the aftermath of the civilian convoy bombed as they try to flee south, you have to wonder how bad it’s going to actually have to get before the western political establishment finally tells Israel to put the brakes on.

 

Giving them a blank cheque to do as they please is heading us straight towards a catastrophe.

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9 minutes ago, Jaggy McJagface said:

After seeing the horrible videos of the aftermath of the civilian convoy bombed as they try to flee south, you have to wonder how bad it’s going to actually have to get before the western political establishment finally tells Israel to put the brakes on.

 

Giving them a blank cheque to do as they please is heading us straight towards a catastrophe.

If absolutely anyone but Israel did that, there would be widespread condemnation and actions taken against them.

Absolute fucking joke that Israel is allowed to do whatever they like with no consequences. 

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I would agree that it's not genocide, yet.

Certainly plenty rhetoric from the Israeli government and others to suggest that they would be more than up for it.

It is textbook ethnic cleansing though alongside the war crimes, which are obviously a given with Israel.

 

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7 hours ago, Dee Man said:

Expecting 1 million people to shift in 24 hours is fair warning? Tell me how you would go about moving 40000 people per hour in any fully functional city nevermind one where the infrastructure has already been blown to bits. 

Lead away at Ibrox with 20 minutes to go?

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46 minutes ago, Ziggy Sobotka said:

20231014_140208.thumb.jpg.215acde9a45fa338e67acab8c046f873.jpg

20231014_141023.thumb.jpg.8f4eab2dbcf9b6b5d1c590298ef7f163.jpg

Was up at the Mound today, probably quieter than I expected but I had to leave early and there were more arriving. Turnout in London, Manchester and Glasgow looks good though from what I've seen.

Christ mate you’re going to get baverman sending armed police round all our houses for that. 

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17 hours ago, GTee said:

I know nothing about much of this. But who or what is Hamas. Is it a political party. Is there a leader. That's not an 'army' to go to war with. A bit like Al Qaeda was supposedly Osama Bin Laden. Not sure about ISIS. But can you go to war with an undefined enemy, which isn't an army. If Israel go for a 'ground war', who are they shooting?. Do Hamas wear uniforms.

The most powerful nation on earth along with us did a great job after 9/11 in Afghanistan.  Well not really. 

Who knows. An overall tragedy 😭

Hamas grew out of the Muslim Brotherhood. That organisation was set up to promote Islam. Aside from the political and religious aspects,

the provision of social welfare has always been very much part of what they do. I believe the latter was also the case in Palestine, and was part

of how Hamas got democratically elected. As mentioned earlier the general population viewed the ruling party PLO as corrupt and self-serving.

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15 hours ago, Flybhoy said:

Not a single sign of the motivation. No commonality. No shared goal. No leadership. In fact, very much the wrong leadership. 
As it stands, there isn’t even a desire for talks. 
On the Israeli side anyway.

To be fair to the Israeli side, it's difficult to find common ground with a group that has in its founding document that

Quote

The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews.

 

 

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1 hour ago, bluearmyfaction said:

To be fair to the Israeli side, it's difficult to find common ground with a group that has in its founding document that

 

 

Your quote sounds straight out of the Old Testament or Torah, all that smiting. 

Hamas have updated their manifesto:

https://irp.fas.org/world/para/docs/hamas-2017.pdf

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7 hours ago, diegomarahenry said:

Every government including the EU are basically holding Israel’s coat in this fight now. 

The sole dissenting government is Ireland's. Both Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael have spoken out (https://jacobin.com/2023/10/europe-eu-israel-support-gaza-bombardment). They're centre-right neoliberal parties too. I think the difference is that Ireland isn't in NATO and has a remarkably low level of militarisation (it ranks way down at 144th of 154 in the Global Militarisation Index; by comparison, Israel is 1st). Therefore Irish politicians are not beholden to the interests of the military and security industries, through which Israel normally derives its support.

Quote

 

One has to realize that the powerful industrial groups concerned in the manufacture of arms are doing their best in all countries to prevent the peaceful settlement of international disputes, and that rulers can achieve this great end only if they are sure of the vigorous support of the majority of their peoples. In these days of democratic government the fate of the nations hangs on themselves; each individual must always bear that in mind.

 

Our good friend Albert Einstein wrote the above in 1934 (source: page 31 of this https://cooperative-individualism.org/einstein-albert_the-world-as-i-see-it.pdf).

Edited by Freedom Farter
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