Israel And The Palestinians (now with added Iran/Lebanon)

[Granny Danger]

5 minutes ago, 10menwent2mow said:

It's not really a question of some guy on P&B not having a problem with it. More that most of the international community seem to not have a problem with it. 

You’re right, that’s the real problem.  It’s heartening that, as with many other things, the posters on a football forum are more enlightened than their political representatives.

[Granny Danger]

Just now, Donathan said:

When did I say that I want to see Gaza carpet bombed?

 

All I said is that I've got no problem with the relative of a hostage caring about the safety of Jewish hostages rather than local civilians and that calling this guy a c**t is a poor look.

So you’re opposed to Israel’s current actions in Gaza that will inevitably lead to significant fatalities and injuries of innocents?

Please give a simple, clear response as I don’t want to be accused of putting words in your mouth

[welshbairn]

1 hour ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

It wasn't an update though -the 1988 charter was not replaced formally by the 2017 document. Hamas officials expressed concern at the time that such a step could upset the group’s hard-line base, particularly in Gaza. Instead, the two documents continue to exist side by side, with Hamas referring to the new one as more relevant.

Ultimately Hamas are an antisemitic organisation.

That all said, it in no way excuses the over-the-top retaliation by the Israeli government.

Israelis use ancient religious texts to justify their actions too..

Quote

But of the cities of these people, which the Lord thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:

But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee:

 

[Donathan]

4 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

So you’re opposed to Israel’s current actions in Gaza that will inevitably lead to significant fatalities and injuries of innocents?

Please give a simple, clear response as I don’t want to be accused of putting words in your mouth

I would prefer to see civilian casualties minimised but I recognise Israel's right to defend itself and to use force to get the hostages back.

[Boghead ranter]

It may be just a Sky News thing, but anyone interviewed, regardless of side, come across as an absolute ball of rage.

There was an IDF spokesman yesterday and again this morning, who turned every answer into "THEY HAVE, AND WILL CONTINUE, TO ENCROACH AND BEHEAD OUR CHILDREN".  Then this morning there was a female Palestinian journo who just shouted over and over Mark Austin with the point she wanted to make, not even listening to his question. 

This is never going to get fixed.

[Bairnardo]

11 minutes ago, Boghead ranter said:

It may be just a Sky News thing, but anyone interviewed, regardless of side, come across as an absolute ball of rage.

There was an IDF spokesman yesterday and again this morning, who turned every answer into "THEY HAVE, AND WILL CONTINUE, TO ENCROACH AND BEHEAD OUR CHILDREN".  Then this morning there was a female Palestinian journo who just shouted over and over Mark Austin with the point she wanted to make, not even listening to his question. 

This is never going to get fixed.

I feel a bit like I'm living in an alternate Uinverse atm, where a wee radio channel in Central Scotland is playing interviews where a member of the public casually chats about the pros and cons of bombing civilian areas into oblivion, and instead of people going, hold on a minute mate, you are talking about a fucking war crime, large scale murder of innocent people, we instead get "aye well you've no walked a mile in his shoes". 

Genuinely quite incredible. 

I can have all the sympathy in the world for someone's plight if they have a family member in a hostage situation, but when that person essentially offers up that thousands upon thousands of completely innocent ought not to be blown to pieces until after his person is safe them im ok with calling that out. 

Grief doesn't give you a free pass to start calling for war crimes ffs

[Trogdor]

I'd genuinely be interested in listening to this interview. It's clearly had a profound effect on Bairnardo.

[Bairnardo]

2 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

I'd genuinely be interested in listening to this interview. It's clearly had a profound effect on Bairnardo.

Not profound at all. Ultimately we're just chatting shit whilst this carnage unfolds far away. 

But like I said, I just found it really weird to hear. Usual bullshit morning radio, and then up pops this guy, effectively discussing whether Israel should, or should not, commit a fucking horrific and barbaric war crime, and his reasons why. None of which were "because innocent people should t be bombed to death"

[Granny Danger]

29 minutes ago, Donathan said:

I would prefer to see civilian casualties minimised but I recognise Israel's right to defend itself and to use force to get the hostages back.

Do you recognise Israel’s right to oppress the Palestinian people for decades?  Do you recognise Israel’s right to create an open prison for Palestinians where their lives are controlled and minimum services provided?

 

[Donathan]

6 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Do you recognise Israel’s right to oppress the Palestinian people for decades?  Do you recognise Israel’s right to create an open prison for Palestinians where their lives are controlled and minimum services provided?

 

No. I would of course prefer a peaceful two state solution. 

[itzdrk]

You have to be a fucking ghoul to in any way justify the actions Israel/Hamas are taking.  

People just going about their lives murdered for control over a small bit of the silly rock we live on.  Pointless. 

[invergowrie arab]

1 hour ago, Donathan said:

No. I would of course prefer a peaceful two state solution. 

Do you know we can all still see your posts in the other thread?

[Freedom Farter]

There was a missile strike on cars of civilians evacuating northern Gaza yesterday. Financial Times have concluded it was done by Israel: https://archive.ph/0P2rA. That seems obvious but Israel blamed it on Hamas so this FT investigation has helped clarify things.

[Shotgun]

Al Jazeera reporting that Iran is telling Israel to immediately halt its “war crimes” against Gaza or it could face “a huge earthquake” of resistance. I suppose that's a start.

[Loonytoons]

3 hours ago, welshbairn said:

But of the cities of these people, which the Lord thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:

But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee:

Much prefer when God realised he was an arsehole and suddenly became all forgiving. 

Shame his followers didn't come to the same conclusion.

[Moomintroll]

Hamas are scum, the current Israeli Government ( & many before and probably after them) are scum, the innocent majority Muslim Palestinians & Israeli majority Jews caught up in this shitshow are victims of both a Terrorist Organisation & a Fascist Goverment that acts like a Terrorist Organisation. Nevertheless the same few posters on here will blame it on the hook nosed jews because Media, Murica & Mbritain, those posters are also scum.

[Thane of Cawdor]

Arron Ferster, a 38-year-old TV producer from Manchester, said: “My grandfather survived Auschwitz and in his testimony described babies being thrown and caught on bayonets by the SS, and that always struck me as unfathomable. But to know that a similar level of barbarism has taken place, and in of all places Israel – which was seen as a safe haven if, God forbid, we ever needed to get out of here – that brought home how strong Jew hate is in some places.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/14/we-feel-so-vulnerable-british-jews-reel-from-atrocities-in-israel

Do people find this stuff credible? If true, it must represent some nadir of evil; if fabricated, it is beyond contemptible.

[oneteaminglasgow]

3 hours ago, Donathan said:

I would prefer to see civilian casualties minimised but I recognise Israel's right to defend itself and to use force to get the hostages back.

Do you extend that to Hamas’ right to use force to get Palestinian prisoners, being held without trial, free?

[Donathan]

1 minute ago, oneteaminglasgow said:

Do you extend that to Hamas’ right to use force to get Palestinian prisoners, being held without trial, free?

No. 

[oneteaminglasgow]

Just now, Donathan said:

No. 

Ok, so your position is the same as the other thread that Israel killing civilians is just one of those things, but Hamas doing it is an unacceptable evil?