thelegendthatis
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Posts posted by thelegendthatis
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I imagIne the majority of the 37k thousand ST holders at ibrox would do also refrain from supporting another club, that is a huge dent in the income to Scottish football no matter which way you look at it
Without doubt if Sevco ceased trading (and playing games) many ex Rangers fans would be lost to the game. And as we know some would prefer to turn their Saturdays into pub visits or a browse through Ann Summers rather than supporting any diddy team.
But against that we need to look at the costs of having Rangers/Sevco. Look at the recent arrests and convictions following the Brechin game.
Add to that the increase in domestic violence from Rangers fans. the murders after games. The general increase in street violence and the increased policing required. Not just at the game but from early one morning to the next morning. If you live near police mustering points you can see the scale of the operations required, through to helicopters sitting up there for a few hours to video the activities of what might be a few, but a pernicious and evil few. You then think of the cost of the Manchester outrage.
These figures have been looked at by people with more say in these matters than me, and the net financial benefit to Scotland and Scottish football is NOT to have Rangers.
But this based on the assumption that they go away quietly and don't create trouble elsewhere. It is this uncertainty that ensures they retain support from the powers that be. Just for now anyway.
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Conduct of Sir David Murray, Craig Whyte and Rangers directors examined: http://www.scotsman....ined-1-2595313?
And John Greig.
He might go for the Harry Redknapp defence
"I can't work a computer, I don't know what an email is, I can't, I have never sent a fax and I've never even sent a text message. I have a big problem, I can't write so I don't keep anything. I am the most disorganised person, I am ashamed to say, in the world.I've never wrote a letter in my life. I couldn't write a letter. I write like a two-year-old and I can't spell. ""I was just there as a figurehead to keep the fans on side. To con them into believing Rangers was being run for the fans. I know I sat in at board meetings but I hadn't a clue what they were talking about. And as for voting, I just voted with Sir David. " "Good wages though and some excellent trips all expenses paid "
"Oh yes and I am currently a trustee of the Rangers Charitable Trust - on the same basis. "
Guilty twice over
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Have never read this before...http://www.followfol...218/index.shtml
"The AGM was packaged in a manner that master-of-spin Tony Blair would have been proud"
"John McLelland found it necessary to pay tribute to Murray – acknowledging "what he has done for and meant to the club." Presumably this includes taking the club to the brink of bankruptcy…"
"With a Balance Sheet that resembles a disaster area,"
"one is left pondering what auditors Grant Thornton thought of this sleight of hand."
"the meeting ended in rancour when shareholder Jim Christie demanded to know why 'FOLLOW FOLLOW' was banned from the Press Box whilst the likes of Gerry McNee were granted access. Martin Bain predictably replied that 'FF' was banned because of its' sectarian content, whilst stressing that the club recognised "the freedom of the Press." He was shouted down, leaving Chairman John McLelland to close the meeting with a plea that "we must rise above all of this."
This was 10 years ago, written by Rangers fans. Obviously these fans were feeling conned by the board of the time. How prescient.
So it is unfair to brand all Rangers/Sevco supporters like Bennett, Tedi, Bendarroch, Bearwithme and Youngsy who are enthusiastic fans but obviously not the brightest shillings in the jar.
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I'm taking it from your post that as i've asked yourself if you had a definitive answer as to whether he had or not, with your lack of a response on a yes or no then you don't know either. Would that be correct? Or if you have then please show.
A matters little when we say, none of us has 'definite answers' as it is all based on second hand information.
I think it is best to await the fraud squad conclusions, assisted by BDO and then we can decide which moral high ground to take.
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Give a guy a compliment and someone else finds fault with it.
A sad attitude, but understandable if you live in a Rangers world where there is so much infighting amongst the various factions. Where everyone seems to have their own petty agenda. The Loyal True Blues, the Very Loyal True Blues, The Effin Loyal True Blues. And so it goes on.
And then the leaders of the various supporters groups who spend all their time sucking up to owners is the hope they will invited along to Slaters to be measured up for a Blazer.
Please accept this as a compliment to you, even if a bit back handed.
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See Sally is issueing his threats again!
The Ibrox boss said: “If there has been wrongdoing then every one of the individuals should be made accountable.”
Accountable to whom? I assume he does mean our legal system.
And how many people is he thinking of?
David Murray, Martin Bain and the many many other from the Murray 'Minted' era plus Duff & Duffer and Whyte. It is a big list Ally.
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Talk about being arrogant and opinionated. There was plenty of wrong doings done at Rangers, most Rangers fans have spoken out against them. Is there an anti Rangers agenda on here, yes - to deny it is insulting.
You have a point, i call it the club tie effect. Though hopefully this is in the past, most bears again are scpetical about Charlie and friends.
Threats of violence, if there has been genuine threats made than i'd expect the police to take action over it. The stuff from the Ch4 guy is laughable and i get the impression that he's desperate for some idiot to take his bait.
I haven't defended Whyte.
Murray deserves a lot of flak for running the club into the ground.
I've been critical of Charlie when he deserves it, i don't trust him but see no other choice right now than to keep an eye on him and be wary.
Now you post this stuff every so often, a Rangers fan answers it, then a short while later we're back to square one again. so for the love of god even if you don't agree with what i say, accept it as my views and move on.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatalism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defeatism
or even http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism except for belief in Rangers.
or the most likely http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum
All in an attempt to understand.
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There appears to be little appetite from Bennett, Tedi, Bendarroch and others of that ilk to look at their own club in any way other than sloganeering. They also throw blame on the plastics, child abusers, lying journos and middleclass broadcasters with fake working class accents
On their behalf I thought it would be useful to understand what Rangers/Sevco supporters groups exist, their numbers and what they could do if they organised themselves properly.
From the Rangers Supporters Trust site I find
Supporters Groups
Rangers Supporters Association
plus The Rangers Supporters Trust.
What about Buy Rangers ?
Some of the links don't work, but that doesn't mean the organisation doesn't exist.
So anyone have any idea which ones are still active, the numbers of members they have and websites?
The NARSA site must have the worst large scale incorrect use apostrophes I have seen in a long time. Or at least in an English speaking country. Let's hope we can blame the American educational system.
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I am saying that while the tax case was hanging over it then only buyers with money to burn would be interested....or crooks
Try to give up on these phrases that say nothing. Just say what you would have liked to have seen happen.
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Tedi & co might want to comment on the highlighted sections below.
Do you think Boyd was right to admit he was deeply ashamed?
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David Boyd (25), of Charlotte Gardens in Aberdeen, appeared at Forfar Sheriff Court on Wednesday and admitted making the chants during the Brechin v The Rangers match at Glebe Park on July 29.
She said: ''Hand-held footage was obtained by a police sergeant of the accused singing 'follow follow we will follow Rangers'.'' She said the accused was seen singing 'Follow follow we will follow Rangers'. He was caught singing 'f*** the Pope' and '****** b******s'.
Boyd's defence solicitor told the court: ''He was not an instigator, he was a follower. The song was being sung by a large contingent of Rangers fans and he doesn't consider himself in any way to have any religious bigotry in him.
''He bears no ill will to people of the Catholic faith but understands they would be extremely offended, as would anyone.''
Sheriff Peter Anderson decided not to give Boyd a football banning order but made him aware that it was an option.
He said: ''You have said you are deeply ashamed of what you did on July 29 and so you should be.
''This sort of behaviour will not be tolerated. Not in small towns, the same as not in cities. To come to Brechin and behave as you did was outrageous.''
Four other fans also appeared separately at Forfar Sheriff Court on similar charges relating to the same game.
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Tedi & co might want to comment on the highlighted sections below.
Do you think McGhie was right to apologise?
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A RANGERS fan Connor McGhie, 19, got three months for religiously aggravated breach of the peace at a game at Inverness. The sheriff who jailed him said: “The extent of the hatred he showed took my breath away.”
McGhie, of Carluke, Lanarkshire, jumped a wall as if to invade the pitch after Rangers scored their third goal against Caley Thistle at the Tulloch Stadium on February 26.
He then straddled a fence and joined in with offensive songs which referred to the Pope and the Vatican and called Celtic “****** b******s”.
Two witnesses reported McGhie to police and he was arrested at the end of the game. He pled not guilty but was convicted.
His lawyer said he came from a good family and had brought shame on his parents.
He told McGhie: “Anybody who participates in this disgusting language should be stopped.
“In the Highlands, we have many people of different faiths. Inverness in particular has a strong immigrant community, whose religion is the one you were deriding so publicly.
“I have no idea who taught you to hate these people or why you hate their beliefs.”
Sheriff Abercrombie said “I do not detect a true level of contrition or a realisation of the seriousness of your position. A signal needs to be sent out that such behaviour will not be tolerated in Inverness.”
The sheriff banned McGhie from all matches in Scotland for six months.
McGhie’s lawyer, Diane McFarlane, said her client wanted to apologise.
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Aye sure, buying a business with a potential £50mill tax bill on top of the £18mill Lloyds debt for a £1 sounds like a bargain to me, get a grip of yersel
So you are saying it wasn't sellable or indeed buyable? The obvious consequence is that Murray should have moved to liquidate Ranger before Whyte even had a sniff? Which would have wiped out the history cleanly.
So let's try to be conconstructive and look at what you would have liked to have seen happen.
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No, I paid for a season ticket and watch my team play football once every other week, this is what football fans do
The rest of the time was spent living my life, going to work, raising my kids etc etc
I trusted the running of my club to the owners who turned out to be arrogant b*****ds that ran it into the ground, sure I knew that we were making a loss that Murray was bank rolling it but nobody knew how deep the problems were, not even Murray himself, he thought what he was doing was legal and still does
Sorry but f**k all you can say will convince me that as a Rangers fan I had anything to do with what happened, that would just be bullshit
Sorry but f**k all you can say will convince me that anything I could have done would have made the slightest bit of difference against a man that held almost the entire shareholding of the company that ran Rangers and instructed stewards to rip down any banners that even hinted of a protest against him
I can understand all of the above, but don't agree with the 'there was nothing we can do' part.
David Murray made known he wanted to sell the club to someone who would take the club forward or some similar cliche. This was from 2006 or so onwards. And we know every businessman has his price.
Of course we now know he sold the club for £1, but the buyer had to payoff Lloyds their £18 million. A bargain some people might say for such a famous club.
Since then there has been continual blood letting from all things Rangers, in an increasingly public way. And it will only get worse as liquidation kicks in, legal challenges, disclosure of more recordings, the facts being uncovered and without doubt fraudulent activities being identified with resulting arrests and court appearances. It will be costly to what was once a proud name.
The question for you Tedi (and Bennett, and any other Rangers fans on here) is
If you had known then (before Whyte bought from Murray) what you know now, what would have done? And I presume done differently.
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Anybody want to guess the connection between the two posts quoted above? Nope? OK, I'll tell you -
I've just come home from a night shift and decided to check the discussion on here ref: the two taster tracks from Craigie Boy's Christmas Album. Quite a bit of speculation, conjecture, and opinion to be found. And the two posts above,
And Tedi? My God, lad, you've outdone yourself this time. TEN YEARS there have been rumblings about the oncoming shitstorm at ibrox, and the only concerted protest your lot could muster was to demand that they spent MORE. "Oh, but we're just football fans". Pathetic. As long as you could claim SOME sort of supremacy over celtic, nothing else mattered.
Everyone else could see that while rangers were racking up debts chasing an impossible dream, celtic were planning for the longer term. Try suggesting that to an Orc - all you'll get is "9IAR, we welcome the chase, WATP" ad nauseam. Now the chickens have come home to roost, it's "how were we to know?".
Totally spot on about rumblings about Rangers. I support neither Rangers nor Celtic, but I was well aware of funny financials going on at Rangers I would guess 6 or 7 years ago. Didn't know it as EBTs but did know there were 2 paypackets, one of which went offshore and avoiding the clutches of the taxman. Oh yes, and it was described as illegal 'but the taxman will have to be able to get the evidence, and he won't be able to prove anything' was what was said.
If I knew, I can't believe that thousands of people closer to Rangers than me also knew about it. And people within the SFA knew. Even before Cambell Ogilvie arrived there.
If you were a fan and didn't know, you weren't paying attention.
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If you honestly think that there was anything any Rangers fans could of done to stop Murray then yer deluded, the truth is that the majority of fans never knew anything was even wrong and were certainly not aware how big the underlying problem was, trying to lay blame at the fans door in hindsight is quite frankly pathetic, we are football fans, we pay money to go watch our teams try and win football matches week in week out, if they are doing this then we trust those in charge are taking care with the finances, the rest of the time we are getting on with our own lives
Look at the teams in England, every one of them is in massive debt yet I don't see mass ongoing protests from fans, a few weeks and it disappears into the background
The only time fans really turn on the money men is when success dries up on the pitch, this was what Celts for change was all about, your fans were sick of playing 2nd best to Rangers and this was the motivation to protest, f**k all to do with debt or club finances, this was the reason the clubs financial problems were exposed and fergus became so popular
Well you do have a Supporters Trust http://www.rangerssupporterstrust.co.uk/
This is usually a vehicle for supporters to have an increasing say and influence in the running of the club. Right through to taking over ownership of the club.
Have a look at this website http://www.supporters-direct.org/ where you can see Portsmouth is on the verge of being taken over by the supporters. http://www.communitypompey.co.uk/
This could have been an option for Rangers if the Supporters Trust had taken the initiative. However the people involved told me, the problem was the various factions within Rangers support couldn't trust each other and in some cases wouldn't even sit in the same room together. All too factional and too much infighting. A real shame when you see the thieving gits who have taken money out of Rangers over the years. And it still continues. But the chance will come again.
I think you might want to revisit the history of Celtic and fergus.
On the Rangers Supporters site http://www.rangerssupporterstrust.co.uk/ if you go down the front page there is a photograph of Richard Gough. Anyone else think he is looking more and more like Jimmy Saville as he gets older?
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Just off to bed.
This is great stuff. Back to the good old days when we had 2 or 3 breaking news stories some days. Whyte, Duff & Duffer, Ally, John Brown, Miller, Ng, Murray (the one with no money), all trying to outdo each other.
OK the number is down but by God the quality is way way up.
There has been enough time since those early days for some solid work to take place. Craigie boy's tapes will not just have been used with Grier - for sure. So he will drip feed enough to get him to a better negotiating position.
What awaits me when I waken tomorrow morning?
I am looking forward to it already.
We live in wonderful times.
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I didn't think I was alone in the belief that Sir David Murray, Craig Whyte, Duff & Phelps & Charles Green were all linked in someway.........
A line up of of just a few of the really guilty ones. Read the guff below the photograph. Makes you want to boak.
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From elsewhere..
Please have the decency to attribute the source. Just politeness.
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It was and remains a completely ridiculous question. A very, very stupid question.
As if anything I might say would make the tiniest difference.
Ignoring your sensitive side, it would be good to know what you did to help your club. In its moments of need.
Or you just all (keyboard) talk and no action?
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I'm sure that plenty of Ranger fans got shot down on here by the hordes for suggesting that D&P were a bit iffy. It seems we were right all along.
Bit of a Johnny come lately Mr Bennett/Tedi.
You don't have to read far into this thread before you find references from the 'hordes' about Duff & Duffer etc. A disparaging term that showed our complete lack of confidence in their integrity and objectives.
Shame you didn't participate in this forum at that stage and then you could have guided us with your advice on the legal obligations of an administrator, the issues around TUPE, how the creditors should be treated, the abdication of responsibility of previous Rangers directors, and what you can reasonably expect to get in the pound shop.
So much you could have contributed to, so little said.
Maybe there will be a time when you will be able to contribute as opposed to just sniping at others?
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Charley tries to put a good spin on things for Ally.
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And here we see a perfect example of the diddy clubber mind-set.
When the wet dreams produce nothing more than premature ejaculations it (diddy clubber) resorts to type and spews forth pish and angst in equal measure.
As the Sky deal remains deliciously unsigned and the veto-vote battle with the plastics ahead - I can say with much sincerity that I hope your particularly nasty diddy club is wrecked in the carnage to come.
A perfect example of the Rangers/Sevco mindset.
We cheat and are fraudulent on every front to be successful. When we are successful we will treat everyone else with contempt.
When we are unsuccessful we will treat everyone else with contempt because we were once successful.
When are totally screwed and forced out of business we will make sure those we had such contempt for will go down with us.
Not sure what words best describe this attitude? Sick, perverted, evil, corrupt, egotistical, fantasist?
Or just kamikaze?
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It's not like we've been shouting about the conflict of interest since Febuary, is it? Seems to me that Criagy the conman has been conned by even bigger conmen and is now panicking incase BDO go after him alone. I'd jail the lot of them.
So would I. For once I agree with you.
But which lot are you thinking about jailing?
David Murray
John Greig
Martin Bain
Ken Olverman
John McClelland
Craig Whyte
Sandy Jardine
Walter Smith
Alex McLeish
Graeme Souness
Campbell Ogilvie.
Anyone else you would add to the "guilty until proven innocent" list?
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Oh for f ucks sake!! What i'm really saying is that i'm not interested in Greens apology in any respect whatsoever as no part of it affects me in any way,can you understand that. As for any so called party line that also will not apply to me either,can you understand that as well.
Excellent, a man with a mind of his own. So what is your considered answer to the question about Green's apology? It might not effect you but what do you think?
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Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!
in Celtic v Rangers, Rangers v Celtic
Posted
Ok sorted. We can put that discussion to bed. What next demands our attention?