thelegendthatis
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Posts posted by thelegendthatis
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Biggest heap of Pish that I have read in a long time. By definition Domestic means your own country. The Rangers can also play in the European Leagues once they have been established for long enough and are good enough.
And 'their own country' is the UK.
Scotland is not a country.
Point already made in the article.0 -
From today's Scotman
Lucrative English football league could be opening up for Rangers
By Eoghainn Maclean
Published on Monday 30 July 2012 00:00
NOW could be the time for "Rangers" to take the Football League SFL), the Barclays Premier League (BPL) and any other opposing football authorities to court under UK competition law for orders forcing their entry to English domestic leagues.
In my opinion they would have a good prospect of success and of emulating Jean-Marc Bosman in overturning football's anticompetitive practices.
Essentially, in competition law, Rangers is a business undertaking and should be free to provide its services as a club to the buyers of such services anywhere in the UK. The buyers are, principally, the organisers of domestic football league tournaments, who distribute shares of revenue in return. The FL and BPL are cartels that abuse their dominant position on UK football markets through rules which exclude clubs that do not play their home games in England or Wales. Rangers' case would be founded on two pillars of UK competition law, which are applied in accordance with EU law and are directly enforceable by undertakings in the ordinary courts.
The first is the prohibition against agreements, or concerted practices, between undertakings or decisions of associations of undertakings which substantially restrict competition within the UK or part of it (chapter one, Competition Act 1998).
The second is the prohibition against abuse by one or more undertakings of a dominant position on a market which restricts competition on that market or another directly affected market, in the UK or part of it (chapter two of the 1998 act).
The FL and BPL are collectively dominant in the UK in the market for the provision of the services of organising and promoting league tournaments. They purchase the services of professional clubs in exchange for shares of revenue made up, principally, of broadcast income.
In that market, the FL and BPL form a buyer's cartel, rather than a seller's cartel, so their market share is measured by the amount of purchasing they do. It seems clear that they distribute more than 40 per cent of all such revenues distributed by all such organisers in the UK, which is the accepted upper threshold for establishing certain dominance under the second prohibition (25 per cent is the accepted upper threshold for establishing a "substantial restriction" of competition under the first).
The FL and BPL's rules, along with those of other football bodies such as SPL, SFA, FA, Uefa and Fifa, effectively limit Rangers to playing all their domestic football only within the territory in which they play their home, namely, Scotland.
That is a hardcore competition abuse and Rangers would have a good case in principle.
Success in national courts in competition cases challenging sporting organisations is by no means unprecedented. The Bosman case is a prime example.
Since Bosman, Fifa and Uefa have repeatedly lobbied for EU legislation and, latterly, non-binding declarations that the splitting of domestic football into national territories within the EU is, nonetheless, compatible with competition law. They have been consistently refused. Most recently, the EU Commission's 2007 white papers on sport, later approved by the EU Parliament, did not even suggest the exemption of such territorial organisation of football or other sports from competition law.
What probably stopped Rangers, and Celtic, taking this issue to court were the rules in Fifa's, Uefa's and national associations' constitutions which prohibit clubs from taking action against any football bodies in the ordinary courts. While Rangers were competing at the top level in Scotland and trying to be competitive in Europe, with all the that required, they may have felt the risk was too great. Now that they are out of Europe for a number of seasons and have been banished to the Scottish third division, they have little to lose and may have much to gain by finally taking this competition case to court.
Eoghainn Maclean is an advocate practising competition and other commercial law. He is a member of Ampersand Stable.
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Tbf given that Regan was telling Green things... and having Rod Petrie confidentially brief him on things... he was promising to execute that then came to zilch, I can see why Green has no time for him (and that's before we consider the fact that, in Green's eyes, the conditions for transferring OldCo's SFA membership are draconian).
Presumably Green doubt's they''d slap disrepute charges on him currently, given their own batterred credibilities.
1. If Green wanted the view of the SPL, then talk to the SPL. Not just one chairman. Especially one who might tell him 'things'
2. Green claims bigotry is behind the decisions against them. Yes. Totally true. Rangers were (note the past tense) institutionally bigoted. Untouchable by the SFA. It took Eufa to do something about it. The fact the majority of people in Scotland and Scottish football want religious bigotry and racism removed from Scottish football, is good. Not something you should be complaining abouit.
3. Chairmen of clubs listened to their supporters. Outrageous I hear you say Charlie. Not outrageous. Quite right.
4. "...decisions that have been made really have been nonsensical from a business point of view." says Charlie. Maybe the case but it is time you realised there is something else at play here. Honesty, integrity. Words you might not be comfortable with Charlie.
5. Words from Charlie "The club were fined 10 points, it received an £190,000 fine, it was then put out the SPL, it was then put down to the Third Division, it has had to pay all the Scottish club debts, which wouldn't normally happen for a newco to be obliged to pay oldco's debts."We're also now paying European debts and there is still potential cloud hanging over the club from the SPL over EBT issues."
If you wanted a clean start, then forget all the baggage and leave the name behind. Sevco FC as a new company and football club is ok with me. You can't have it both ways.
Fine of £190k? Some big deal. Remind me how much Rangers owe?. To the nearest £10million will do. Who did they lie to? Who was responsible? If you want to move ahead Charlie time to hang the guilty guys out to dry.
Those who had (have) EBTs. Murray (D), Ally, Walter, Souness, Dodds (and 96 others to be taken into consideration). Directors who couldn't or wouldn't do their job. McLelland, Greig, Bain, King, Murray (P).
Stop bleating about others Charlie. Start at home and dump the baggage you bought from the ruins of Rangers. Jardine would be an obvious start.
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McConville likes to pass himself off as an upstanding legal eagle, people reading his posts or blogs deserve to know what his characters like.
Also him and Muirhead, thats a match made in heaven.
A bit like Sevco (2012) trying their best to pass themselves off as Rangers FC.
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If Rangers Media isn't keeping you laughing or getting you annoyed enough, try http://www.spiritoftheredhand.net/
To think that so many people post to RM, listen to this stuff, and support Sevco makes me scared. Very scared.
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No titles removed
http://www.scottishf...lub/rangers-fc/
Telling, or am I reading too much into it ?
[New logo to replace
] Sevco T/A The Rangers FCAddress:Ibrox Stadium, 150 Edmiston Drive, Glasgow G51 2XD
Contact Info: T 0141 580 8500
Ticket Centre, Customer Services, Hospitality & Commercial 0871 702 1972
General Enquiries and Football Administration 0141 419 0600
Ticket Centre 0141 580 8504
Web:www.sevco.co.uk
Team Nickname:The Gers
Manager:Alistair McCoist
Founded:2012
Ground:Ibrox Stadium
Stadium Capacity:51,082
Competition(s):IRN-BRU Third Division
The Scottish Communities League Cup
Kit:Season 2011/12
Club Honours
None
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If only. All parties (SFL/SPL/SFA) have agreed that they all must agree to the acceptance of Newco. It is the SPL that is preventing it at the moment and I would say that this has as much to do with trying to force the SFL's hand on media rights as it has to do with double contracts. FFS any punishment of Newco for double contracts is going to be pretty minor compared to the benefit that Oldco gained and the only thing it is causing is uncertainty.
How about, they give Newco the membership but state that they will still be investigating the double contracts and that if when they are found guilty, the club will be up on a bringing the game into disrepute charge with the SFA. They can then be punished by the SFA and if they do not accept it, then the SFA can then begin the process of eviction.
According to the BBC website (Chris McLaughlin!)
"....the main sticking point is Rangers' insistence that they are not prosecuted following a dual contracts investigation. "
I would have thought that the SFA, SPL and SFL would have realised by now that Green pleading for a 100 previous offences to be taken into consideration must not be part of the negotiation. Honesty is non negotiable.
If they do try to wave Green through I am really looking forward to the firestorm on the SFA in particular. The queue is endless. We can line up Rangers Tax Case, Paul McConville's blog, Mark Daly at the BBC, Alex Thomson, even some of the Herald and the Scotsman journos we can count on.
I would hope it is driven by ensuring we flush out and remove the Rangers/Sevco apologists in the SFA. And to do that we need to start at the top with Campbell Ogilvie.
Give Sevco a masonic nod lads, you know it will bring a proper revolution of the governance of Scottish football that much sooner.
If you spit in somebody's face, be ready to move quickly as you should expect a right hook pretty soon. So spit away SFA.
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How the f**k does this c**t manage to breathe and type at the same time?
You are hitting your head against a brick wall here.
You must appreciate that Kincardine has depended on Roughie and the Real Radio phone in for all he knows about company law. The place he learned that there is no need to shut up if you have no knowledge whatsoever on a subject.
If we must
talk about naming the cheats. What about PKA Rangers? (If good enough for Prince good enough for Sevco). Might make them sound like some dodgy Greek team with no money, which would fit 
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Phoenix companies are not illegal, in fact they are encouraged and provided for in company law. The only, or the main, illegal aspect of a phoenix company occurs when the directors of the previous company 'phoenix' a new company with the main or sole aim of avoiding tax liability.
Newco IS a phoenix company in some ways. i.e they are trading at the same address, carrying on the same business., with many of the same employees. However they are not acting illegally doing that.
Havent a clue about images, logos, naming and branding. Shouldn't imagine it makes a whole lot of difference to anyone who matters(HMRC for example). I believe they may have to make some minor alterations but they will still be, quite clearly branded as Rangers FC and you'll hardly notice any difference in their logo or branding, and thats perfectly legal if approved by companies house.
HMRC certainly do not forbid phoenix companies. Its not their place or in their power to do so. They would only be concerned if the phoenix company was to have a commonality amongst the directorship, given that there is an massive unpaid tax liability involved.
Something else needs to be said here. Despite the wishes of the broad base of Scottish football fans, even if BDO were to walk into Ibrox tomorrow, liquidate the Oldco AND the Newco, re-possess the stadium, the car park and Murray Park and sell it to Tescos, the entity that is Rangers will not disappear for ever. No business with 100,000 potential customers a month willing to pay an average of £50 each a month, will disappear completely.
Having spent a couple of weeks away from P&B I am amazed how this thread has degenerated. And the post above typifies it. Are we in school holidays or something? Maybe time for Rangers for Dummies to be published? There obviously is a market.
It is as if now that Rangers are moving into liquidation, and the team under whatever name is going to struggle in front of comparatively large crowds in Division 3, that many of the more significant posters from the past seemed to have given up.
Meanwhile the cowboys circle the business exploitation opportunity, with double glazing salesman Brain Kennedy joining the greed queue today (again). Ticketus, Whyte, the guilty ex Rangers directors all still need to be dealt with, as they still await their chance from the sidelines. Court cases and court threats by the bucket load still to be sorted.
We have the SFA, holding onto its Rangers supporting key members of staff with Campbell Ogilvie sitting out the storm.
A flawed and useless SPL trying to invent a role for themselves under their totally flawed business model.
Rangers may be in the wounded animal stage, but now is the time for them to be put down for good, with Green's assistance.
And we talk here about what name can be used.
So much still to do. We seem to be trying hard to become irrelevant.
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does anyone think that in years to come we'll all be talking about Rangers in the same context as Queens Park ?!
You know, they used to win lots of trophies and play in front of big crowds but all that's left is a Club floundering in the lower reaches of the league in front of a few hundred people rattling around inside a big stadium !
More of a Renton I would guess http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renton_F.C.
Queens Park are still going.
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No it doesn't.
If not £30 million a game, then how much? £40 million?
How much is a murder worth? A beaten wife? A stabbing? A shop looted and wrecked? A train vandalised? A bus smashed up? A population terrified to walk the streets?
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when it comes to Traynor I'd be looking for a shotgun never mind consistency.
If you want to get your oar in about Traynor check out http://honestyinsport.weebly.com/key-people-we-may-wish-to-email-write-or-phone.html
At the bottom of the page there are details of people to email or write to about Traynor, and also about wee Chic (if he ever appears again).
We have had more than enough of these arrogant idiots, who know nothing but can never admit their ignorance.
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So Traynor is now predicting that the SFL could run a parallel top flight league and take European spots from the SPL:
"The SFA would probably be unable to resist a wish by the SFL and Rangers to stand alone and demand European places because they couldn't rule in favour of, say,
eight or nine SPL clubs against 30 in the SFL. After all, haven't the SPL been insisting
the voice of the majority must be heard?"
Ridiculous stuff - is he now going the way of Leggo and completely losing his marbles?
For once I am agreeing with Traynor. One of the results we need for Scottish football to move forward is the elimination of the SPL as constituted. It was corrupt from day 1, and still is.
It has managed to pretty well kill any hope of success for Scottish clubs in Europe. The part time league teams in Europe are doing better than Scottish clubs, youth and schools football has been decimated by the SPL clubs, such that there are regular petitions to the Scottish Parliament to reduce their draconian limitations put onto young players. And as for the national team, well how awful has that become?
So the SFL clubs must create their own top flight to which the current SPL clubs can be invited to join. But join on the terms of the SFL.
Little doubt that is what the Scottish Government wants, but they can't push this agenda publicly.
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Can I remind the evening shift, soon to come on, about
http://honestyinsport.weebly.com/
As Elvis sang ' a little less conversation, a little more action' or summat like that.
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Fans, when it comes down to brass tax. They're a CIC (Community Interest Company), a social enterprise.
Telegraph said Clyde proposed an amendment but it was "dismissed"; however, it's not been reported elsewhere.
CIC (Community Interest Company), IS a social enterprise
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If you want to join in getting your message across have a look at
http://honestyinsport.weebly.com/
For those who feel strongly it would be good if they sent E mails to the SFL offices, with copies to SFA and SPL saying what we want. The heading needs to be for "For the attention of Brechin" or whatever. A separate email for each club chairman!
Use your own words for the email if you want.
I have chosen videos which demonstrate honesty to be attached to the email to make sure they get there ok. If we can get a few thousand emails going it should be significant enough to make them pay attention
If you belong to a club forum/board please post a link up there. The more who can hit them over the next 24 hours with emails and files the stronger the voice.
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Ther was an article in Abmad agreed with your analogy:
""At an Institute of Directors dinner in 1991 Gerald Ratner said this of his extremely successful Jeweller's business:
"We also do cut-glass sherry decanters complete with six glasses on a silver-plated tray that your butler can serve you drinks on, all for £4.95. People say, "How can you sell this for such a low price?", I say, "because it's total crap."
His business collapsed almost overnight and PR faux pas have been labelled "Ratner moments" ever since. The point is that, in playing to his audience, he was oblivious to his customer's self esteem and indeed their aspiration to be the type of person who might own Ratner style jewellery products (what else can we call them) and he just didn't see that this would turn his customers away. Fast forward to June 2012 and the "business" of Scottish football.""
One of the shameful aspects of Doncaster, Regan and the MSM is their continual badmouthing of game.
I do think Doncaster especially should be on the nomination list for the Gerald Ratner "Chief Executive who did the most to screw his business" award. Regan as well should be in there and Longmuir might be a late entry, depending on what he does tomorrow.
We are supporting you David, until you show us why we shouldn't.
PS When things calm down here, as they must when people start kicking a ball, why don't we hire one of the conference rooms at Hampden for a get together, and we can have awards as well.
Statto of the year. HibeeJibee step forward.
Wur leader Pozbaird
Ratner award
Proper journalist of the year wee Jim, Cosgrove
The biggest ars***ole journalist Chic, Jabba
Biggest Rangers apologist Goram, Hately, Dodds....
Funniest moment Bomber from the steps of Reichstagibrox
Blue Knights award for the most pathetic bid
Most hated by Rangers media
God, the list just goes on and on
I am sure we could get Tam Cowan and Stuart Cosgove to host it.
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HibeeJibee
R.e. last nights queries about Brechin, looks like they're voting Yes, easily convinced by vague restructuring "promises".
________________________
More fool them
Hopefully the promises last longer than Doncaster and Regan in their jobs.
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While on the role of agents, I was having lunch with an agent last year during the close season. (yes I do mix with some strange people). And no it wasn't succulent lamb, more like a steak bake from Greggs.
He received a phone call from a well kent journalist from a Scottish red top.
'Any stories for me?'
'Nope, there's nothing happening'.
Then a discussion about deals being negotiated but these were going to be signings for the diddy clubs, so he wasn't interested.
Then the 'journalist' said 'Can't you make something up for me (but it had to be about someone going to or moving on from Celtic or Rangers)'. He confirmed it was a slow news day!
Everytime I read a redtop and 'rumours' about someone signing or leaving I always think if this is another story after such a telephone conversation.
To be fair to the agent he didn't play the game, despite my attempts to feed him nonsense stories
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You can split the camps into two:
1. People who put money into Scottish football - the club chairmen/owners and us, the fans. I do not include the commercail sponsors because they are only funding something that they are getting a return from, their is nothing altruistic in their actions and they have no loyalty.
2. People who take money out of Scottish football - the 'pundits', players, managers, administrators, newpaper publishers and 'journalists' - self interest is their motivating factor.
Whilst I recognise the club chairmen and owners are under a great deal of pressure I am convinced, if left to their own devices, they would do the right thing. I believe they understand the sporting integrity issue and agree with it. The view of the overwhelming majority of the fans is well known.
So the people who take money out of the game are trying to dictate to the people who put money into the game, then criticise and belittle them when they won't dance to their tune.
Excellent way to view who is who, and their motivations.
Of course club owners/chairmen fall into 2 camps those who put money in (the vast majority) and those who take money out like David Murray and others of that ilk.
The elephant in the room not mentioned are the agents. They do self interest in spades. A couple of them appear on the Rangers creditors list (check the amounts!
) and then there is Willie McKay. The agent with long established good professional working relationships with Walter, Ally, Souness and D Murray. A couple of years ago agents took around £20million out of Scottish clubs.
I would happily pay wee Chic a few grand to organise a football match against the agents, as long as he is playing and is in killer mode.
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Lecture today to the diddy clubs from Henry McLeish. http://www.scotsman....delay-1-2406423
"We can't afford not to be able to move on after Friday," said McLeish. "Unless or until we put our house in order, a lot of people will be looking at us and saying we are not fit for purpose. The game is bigger than the SPL, SFL and SFA.
McLeish admits there is no hard proof of the apocalyptic figures which have been produced in recent days to illustrate the losses which would be suffered if Rangers are placed in the Third Division, but he is convinced it would cause significant problems for many clubs.
"I don't have any empirical evidence to justify it but, in terms of the research I did, there are a lot of clubs in a very precarious situation," he said. "How that would fall if Rangers went into the Third Division, you can't identify the detailed consequences.
"But there is an instinct which many people share that it wouldn't be positive for those clubs who are struggling on the margins"
The game in Scotland is currently starved of investment. Much of that has to do with ourselves. We have to put our own house in order. No-one owes us a living.
From a guy who produces the blueprint for the future of Scottish football doesn't even know the figures, basing his argument on instinct.
Clown. Yes it is starved of investment. Not because Sevco is in or out, it is because the house is NOT in order, and there is no clarity on how it will be put in order. And pathetic negotiations with TV companies. Which has its own history. Roger Mitchell got the heave ho when he screwed the BBC/Sky deal playing one against the other, P45 for Smith on the back of Setanta, Doncaster next.
But Henry was never great with numbers, except when he managed to scam, and get away with £38,000 when an MP http://www.dailymail...penny-back.html
Yes Henry we have problems of honesty and integrity at the SFA, SPL and SFL. You too are part of that problem.
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Just wondering what the tactics will be for the meeting on Friday.
No doubt the people who really want to drive it are Doncaster especially and Regan.
Longmuir will have the courtesy from them to open the session, with usual preamble about the paper produced today (the pyramid stuff). This document was produced in an attempt to wrest the agenda away from the SFL clubs, and put the ball in Regan and Doncaster's court.
Then I would guess Reagan goes next. He will give a general doomsday scenario, but balanced with hope and chances. Talk about the state of the game, how we have a chance of creating a fairer split of money, better chance of promotion, etc. And Sevco have such a size of following they must be included in Div 1. It is also the chance to sort out the years of mismanagement we have had within the SFA, we can get constitution sorted etc
He will put some fear into the clubs but will emphasise the opportunities for them, the chance of getting more money, and possibility to progress.
Then Doncaster will be the hard guy. Essential to have Sevco in Div 1, without them sponsors run away. We can only survive 1 year before Sky disappear. Fancy presentation will give facts which obscure and confuse. Income down by hunners of percent. So vote them into Div 3 and half of you will be out of business within 18 months. The SPL is looking kindly on you just now, we are making big, very big concessions to you, but vote them into Div 3 and we take the ball away.
Then the clubs will have their say.
Part of the challenge for Doncaster & Regan will be to split the weak and infirm (emotionally, financially) from the definite Nos like Raith, Clyde etc. They need to isolate the Nos through fear and threats, and hug the Yeses.
Probably easiest to up the bribes for those who say yes on the day. But only those who say yes. It will be like an insurance salesman asking them to sign here and no cooling off period.
This is the real tough part to get right at the meeting. I assume Longmuir will wave with the wind. Regan good guy talking a brighter future after this for Scottish football, Doncaster threatening them with oblivion....unless.
Any deceit will be tried, vague promises will pop out of hats, whatever it takes.
Friday could be the last chance saloon for both Regan and Doncaster.
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The Scottish FA, the Scottish Premier League and the Scottish Football League have, for the past two years, been involved in a series of discussions at Board level with the objective of securing radical and co-ordinated reconstruction of the game in this country.
Today, we are asking clubs to consider a package of reforms which have the potential to rejuvenate Scottish football at senior level and safeguard its future at a time when uncertainty and fear prevail.
The proposals are based on five principles previously outlined by the Scottish FA as key to streamlining Governance, ensuring greater financial distribution and above all, providing better entertainment, enhanced competition and value for money for supporters.
Upon agreement by the respective Boards, the proposals will placed before the SPL and SFL clubs for approval to be activated immediately and phased in over a two-year period.
A working party will be formed, including three representatives from both the SPL and SFL, to devise a new structure for the senior professional game in Scotland. This group will have an independent Chairman appointed by the Scottish FA. They will be tasked with delivering by 30th November, 2012, a recommendation for structural change effective 2013/14. This will incorporate primarily:
The introduction of an enlarged top tier for Scottish Senior Professional Football.
A new detailed model for senior professional football in Scotland including number of divisions; number of clubs per division; number of matches per season per division; number of promotion and relegation places per division and the introduction and operation of play-offs.
An all-through distribution model providing certainty for all clubs as to the percentage of distributable income which will be received. As a minimum, clubs in the current third and fourth divisions will receive the settlement agreement proportion guaranteed as per the current arrangement. In addition, the value and number of parachute payments to relegated clubs will be considered.
The introduction of a pyramid for Scottish football to provide a route for licensed clubs to enter the new structure effective 2014/2015
In the event that a final decision is not reached by 30th November 2012, the Scottish FA will seek to implement a new structure in time for the 2013/2014 season. The members of the working party including Chairman will be announced in the near future and will ensure consultation with all stakeholders prior to final recommendations being made.
Have just highlighted the weasel words. Words which say nothing other than 'intent' or 'best endeavours'.
Like little Red Riding Hood being conned by the wicked pair of foxes.
I don't suppose you could have mentioned governance? Like getting article and constitution that actually mean something and can be enforced.
Otherwise it is all just trying to build on sand.
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Point already made in the article.
Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!
in Celtic v Rangers, Rangers v Celtic
Posted
You might want to check Ballingry Rovers spending this summer and Kelty Hearts last summer.
More than the SPL clubs managed anyway.