Tannadeechee

My thoughts on our team/squad is we are down. Unless there is a big change then for me that's it. The season will determine exactly how bad it is. For the squad as @SGMilnepoints out above, we signed "exciting" attacking minded players. We have signed players, but have not created a TEAM. A team is greater than the sum of its parts, what we put out appears to be less than the sum of its parts. Not going through every player, but a few "highlights" Edwards is not a captain, seems myopic when receiving the ball at the back and can't see players wide open, especially to his right. He also seems to be unable to make a decision quickly. Graham seems lost, still a young lad though Behich for someonne who has over 50 caps, won the cup and league in Turkey as well as being signed for €4 million in the past, is poor. For someone who is known for bombing forward he is completely shirking responsibility. Almost every single time the ball came to him in that first half, irrespective of the situation it was first timed right back to the defender who gave it to him. Most of the time there was 1 Saints.player in front of him and space behind for him to run in to. Harkes, too soft, has ability, but not when under pressure in games. Harkes & McGrath cannot play in the same midfield. One or the other and on today's showing that should be McGrath. Fletcher, seems to care, one of a few that shows they do. Needs support and time machine to go back 5 years. Anaku looks very promising. Has pace, heart and a will to win. A few in this squad could do well to copy. Deserved his start and worked well with Fletcher Levitt, compared to last season's best performances for me, is playing too deep. Although it has to be said that's where he was playing for Wales, but he appears lost and completely ineffectual, with games passing him by. He looked far, far better after Harkes went off and he moved further forward. He needs to be played further forward with us or he is a passenger. Having said that it doesn't help him if no one is making a move for the ball. We play far too slowly and do not attack collectively. No one will take a shot when in position and pass the responsibility to someone else. The lack of an aggressive DM is killing us. Ignoring what may or may not have gone on, Butcher would have torn his team mates a new arsehole in a performance like that and would have at least have earned a booking for going through someone. He would have driven the team on and a player in that ilk would have broken up attacks, and then allowed Levitt and McGrath to play. Would also have an added layer of defense before it reached the comedy of errors that is our defence. The team is too passive, not strong enough, Harkes being brushed time after time off the ball. He wasn't the only one. The fact that there is no real reaction, no dig, no tackles, no imagination, no movement, no busting a gut, just flat nothingness is incredible. There has been one real blip at home to AZ, and the rest other than that win against Livi in the cup, is just insipid pish and that's being polite. The thing is from the on pitch reactions, some of these players just can not have any personal or professional pride, and are completely lacking in awareness of the current situation. McGrath in his DUTV interview thought we were the better team but didn't take chances. We had more possession but it's the no purpose defender to defender to wingback to defender to midfielder to defender to no one. I'm so scunnered at the whole thing so far, so annoyed, I'm no longer annoyed if that makes sense. See no signs of getting out of the current situation, it's just shite!

That was a complaint Hibs fans had over his team. While he signed Gogic, he didn't ay him that often and seemingly did the same with Sunderland.

Have to agree with pretty much everything said by @SGMilne A vast number of our fans these days have to have a "bogeyman" real or imagined. Everything has to be the fault of one person. Also opinions seem to change or indeed flip-flop as often as the date changes. The one thing I'd expand on though is the quoted bit. I remember all the comment last season about how we had 2 managers, one in the dugout and one on the pitch. I have also seen us last year slow the play down from the back, usually at the request of 1 player, stopping us from taking advantage of the opposition being out of position, while watching Courts react negatively. It wasn't a big reaction but you could see he was not pleased. You'd then hear him in the interview talking about how he wanted the play to be quicker etc. That ties in with some of what I'd heard about one source of friction. On the appointment he'll have my support, I just hope this isn't the easy option that doesn't annoy/upset the playing squad, and I would have given him to the end of the season, unlelss we have a walk a way option if it goes badly. It is mostly reported that Fox lead the training and put into practice what Courts wanted & is respected by the players. Having them play for you is half the battle (or more than half) and hopefully that continues.

Aye, but isn't that as you said earlier because your a Dee c**t on a United thread?? I misread that as selling oil to the Saudis and was almost extremely impressed!!

Why? Seen that line pulled in another forum, can't see why it, makes no sense. He's not being sacked, he's leaving under "mutual consent" with a nice write up, unlike others who have left recently. The "not happy with you, so I'll not do anything to you but we'll get rid of your son you didn't want at the club in the first place" all seems a bit gangster, small time and un business like for me. Suspect its more like an offer has come in, hes asked to be released from contract, we've thought he can go and allow new man to bring in own staff without us having to pay folk off etc. He'll probably go to Swansea with Goldie who brought him to Tannadice.

Swansea would be my guess. He at the SFA under Goldie who brought him to United. Supposedly a good.coach, but never accepted at United and could never be promoted as the outcy and conspiracy theories would go mental.

I'd quite agree, although it appears the the hard work and hard running was more prevelant last night at 0-0 than it was against Livi at home at the same or score or against St. Mirren. The improvement needs to continue. I just found it telling that Liam Fox felt he needed to mention it as it is at odds with his comments regarding "player power" at United and not playing for Ross.

Telling that Liam Fox says in his interview with DUTV "Like I've just said to the guys there, shouldn't have to ask professional football players to run hard and to work as that just be a given. So that's where we need to get back to"

It's a win. Better keep that up at Fir Park.

It's good we are 2 up at half time. It's good we are putting in a performance. I'm not happy though, it just shows these b*****ds on the park weren't putting the effort for the last few weeks. They'll have to keep this up (performance wise) all bloody season to be forgiven for what I've witnessed on the park recently. May they keep me getting angry during the 2nd half as they show the effort missing previously!

Alan Temple of the courier tweeted the rules relating to this. Players are not cup tied if they play in the group stages, only counts as cup tied in the knock out stages.

Ross said after the win over AZ Alkmaar "“Maybe I should call it quits now — I know from experience, this job doesn’t always continue to go well,” laughed Ross. Who knew at the time this would be one of the truest statements said during this season.

Quite agree, but one thing in Smith's defence he is the only one who appears visibly angered and annoyed by what is happening and seems to be letting team mates know it. The rest jusut head down shuffle about staring at the ground.

I hadn't commented until then. As said a poster ASKED what the rumours were, I told him what the rumours are. I also said it may be shite. Knock yourself out, crack on red dotting rather than speaking about it. At least you have written a reply rather than a childish "I don't like that " red dot. You possibly are in the minority, but this is a forum if no-one posts rumours the whole fecking site near falls on its arse. Have you not been one of the posters talking about how crap and a total liability Eriksson was even though you hadn't seen him play and were basing it on rumours that you may or may not have made up to be ITK? If not then sorry I may have you mixed up with another poster. Most of the posts in the last 24 hours saying Ross was gone were other clubs fans posting links to him leaving Sunderland and Hibs. My take on it is that there is a player led revolt over something or other at the club, that is clear for all to see as they are not playing for him and he looks shell shocked. In this there is usually only one loser which is the manager. If he goes though the players undermining him win. Although I'd be happy to chip in a few quid along with a few others to get shot of half the squad no matter how talented, or how well they did last year. The attitude shown by the majority of the playing staff is piss poor, out of order and basically sticking two fingers up at the fans who effectively pay for their lifestyles. There are a few exceptions, but not many. The.only other explanation is Jack Ross is shite and needs to go before we potentially find ourselves any further adrift at the bottom of the league. Do I think he is completely shite? No I don't BUT he has made mistakes and still hasn't been able to kick the slow, one-paced, directionless, no shots, no creativity pish football we've been served up when not chucking it ( AZ at home excluded). He has said though that that is not what he wants, so is that on the players? The players though are weak, timid, responsibility dodging cowards and something needs to change sooner rather than later or we could be set with a loser mentality for the season and in big trouble.

No. Different goalkeeper, 2 different cenntre halves and a different left back. The right back is the same as the Championship winning side.

Thing is Eriksson was the goalkeeper of the year in the Allsvenskan helping his team to 9th place out of 16th in the league, a team that shouldn't have been anywhere near that position with stats better than Benji, is also current Finnish no. 2 with 1 cap. He's not shite, but many fans have written him off due to not replacing Benji towards the end of last season. The keepers are afforded absolutely no protection by those in front. The comment about Szromnik/Zwick vibes is interesting. We've brought back Craig Hinchcliffe as GK coach. He's the same coach that turned Rado nervous and turn the Polish under 21 international and top Polish goal keeping prospect Szromnik into a goal keeping imposter. How much is that having an effect?

Always the case the manager pays the price. I agree with you to a ertain extent about preparation, but players can still try, mark up(they have eyes in their head FFS), track, look like they give a f**k in general. Some of the defending was amateur at best. Goal 5 has Edwards wandering about half-hearted.doing the square root of feck all. Other goals (lost count as to exactly which ones they were to be fair) McMann ambles back with a player running in to tap the ball in, plus the other almost carbon copy goals. 2nd goal stems from McMann (I think it was) doing exactly the same thing as led to a goal by Livi, trying to play the ball centrally under pressure. If he had just punted it clear or put it out to regroup. These things are on the players. One of the only players that visibly looked pissed off was Liam Smith, others may well have been internally but too many just seemed to go "Oh well, these things happen" and continued onwards in the same vain. Training, preparation for the game, tactics and line up, changes through the game, that's on the manager and he is culpable. Strength on the ball,passing ability, onfield decisions, lack of tracking, lack of tackles, just lack of using any common feccking sense on the field of play and on field.commitment to the cause amd professional pride thats squarley on the players. Pre season wasn't great, Killie was nearly 3pts ( if we had what might have been), AZ at home was great, since then its been disastrous. Something has happened and the players (well some of them) have downed tools.

Not sure if they did from the George Fox at the time, but definitely moaning on some forums and Twitter from fans.

He gets caught on the ball, dithjers and holds into posession too much. He also started the game against Hearts at DM. It wasn't pretty.

Exactly, this is determined by whether or not the rumours are true, you can't allow players to effectively police what they do on thr pitch or who the club employs. Most of the guys at our level will require jobs in thr real world when they retire and when they donthey are in for a hell of a shock! If they get away with it once, they'll do it again. As said all of this is if this is definitely true. Mulgrew is decent, as is Watt, but you're correct that they, especially Watt, have a higher opinion of themselves tham those looking in do. In Watt's case you feel with more application he could be a fantastic player, rathen than an inconsistent very good player.

Goodness knows if it is or not, but that is the rumour. Mulgrew,Watt and Clark laughing about at halftime warm up hasn't gone down well with some of the support. There is something very rotten at the heart.of the playing side of the club at the moment. Never seen so many allegedly professional players, look like they have given up, chucked it and can't be arsed as you see in the park at the moment. No mattter who yout boss is and whether you like him or not professional pride comes into it and you still do your best. Not really finding anyone who fits that bill to be honest. That is not absolving Ross of his mistakes.

What is your problem @ArabFC The lad asked what the rumours are, he was told what they are. Obviously have another one of these posters that doesn't like other opinions or folk to answer what rumours are. We aren't saying its fact, it's just what the rumours are. It's also obvious to anyone with a brain and eyes to see the pathetic, directionless, aimless, substandard, lack of effort shit show being served up by the playing squad currently, that something is very,very obviously wrong. That the players have downed tools and very, very few look bothered when the goals go in against them.

The dressing room is led by 4 players. They believe they are who runs the club. The players are Mulgrew, Watt and 2 others (Clark possibly one other). They are seemingly against Jack Ross and as such the dressing room is not with him.

You'd have to jettison Mulgrew,Edwards and Smith for that. The slow aimlless, directionless gk to Edwards to Smith to Mulgrew to Smith all after about 5 touches to control it slows down absolutely ANY chance of doing anything at all. The opposition is all back closing of space. When the ball does get to Middleton is 1st response (and he is far from the only one) is to passit straight back again irrespective of if he has time to turn and go forward. No in is hitting the byline at pace to stretch the opposition and put in a cross to Fletcher who if he does win it has no one (Watt, McGrath,Harkes,Middleton) with 5+ yards to win the knock-downs. Its getting that bad Fletcher was out wide with Smith and Middleton so he could get a touch and try to help create. There is just so much wrong with our set up and play right now it is difficult to know where to start when you want to critique the team!

It's not an unpopular opinion at all. Freeman was really pivotal to our good start last season. Smith when in possession today just would not release the ball quick enough to Middleton and never overlapped. Was the no overlapping a managerial decision or was it because he had absolutely no confidence in Edwards and Mulgrew behind him? If must play, use him as the defensive midfielder that should have been a prority this window. The amount of mistakes so far from him, although far from the only one, so far this season has me shaking my head. Quite a few players in the squad must be sitting there fizzing at the fact they aren't getting a look when watching what those who are playing are getting away with.