Guest Flash Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Intrude away Flash, I have never claimed that all the bodies would operate under the same procedures as I am well aware that would be mixing apples with oranges, I only wanted to make the point, my point being if it is still not clear that I would be keen to know what the acknowledgement from the SFL to Livi said eg did it say that the original decision would be set aside?I just don't know the answer to that But to answer your question, no that particular appeal was not to the SFA - sometimes hard to keep track of which appeal at Spartans we're talking about! I think given the SFL wanted Livi to play East Stirling it is unlikely they thought the appeal resulted in the decision being set aside. I think the SFL's view would be in line with Yoss's interpretation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 I think given the SFL wanted Livi to play East Stirling it is unlikely they thought the appeal resulted in the decision being set aside. I think the SFL's view would be in line with Yoss's interpretation. Exactly. I suppose we can argue over the semantics of when the appeal starts, but Yoss was spot in in that it doesn't really matter: the rule regarding the appeal "succeeding" is just a way of, basically, saying what happens at the meeting. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Appeals Procedures133. The Association’s structure for the hearing of appeals is as set out in this Article. The following provisions and procedures provide a means for the resolution of differences or questions arising from the observance and implementation of the Association’s Articles, rules and decisions and the fact of membership of the Association shall constitute an agreement by a member that it, or any body or person interested through such member, shall submit all such differences or questions to the jurisdiction of the Association and shall not be permitted to take such differences or questions to a court of law. The provisions for the hearing of appeals, as set out hereunder, shall also apply to any sub-committee established by the Appeals Committee from time to time. All references to Appeals Committee shall also mean a sub-committee of the Appeals Committee as the context so requires. Appeals Committee 133.1 A player, official, referee, club, league or association has the right to appeal to the Appeals Committee against a decision of a club or any recognised football body which is imposed upon such person or body, provided that the appellant has exhausted such appeals proceedings as were available to the appellant consequent to the decision in question, unless a satisfactory reason is given for not having done so, and provided that the appeal to the Appeals Committee is not excluded in terms of Article 66. For the avoidance of doubt, an appeal by a player must be submitted either:- a) by the player personally, in writing; or by the player’s club, on the player’s behalf, in writing with the reasons of appeal countersigned by the player. An appeal hearing shall not be conducted as a re-hearing of the case except by way of an express submission on behalf of a party to the hearing and with the permission of the Chairman of the Appeals Committee. Once an appeal has been validly submitted to the Secretary, the decision against which the appeal is submitted shall be set aside pending the hearing of the appeal unless the interests of justice dictate that the decision should be given effect. The original decision making body shall be entitled to make representations to the Secretary opposing such a setting aside of the decision. Such representation must be lodged in writing with the Secretary within 1 working day of the Secretary’s receipt of the appeal submission. The representations shall be considered by the Secretary and the Chairman of the Appeals Committee, whose decision thereon shall be final and binding. In the absence of either the Secretary and/or the Chairman of the Appeals Committee, the President and/or the First Vice-President shall be entitled to act as alternates in considering the representations There is a proviso but in most cases I think the original decision would be set aside Maybe you should have bolded the next line too oh, and the next one, where it says that the SFL can make a representation as to why the decision shouldnt be set aside. Other than that, good work 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Exactly.I suppose we can argue over the semantics of when the appeal starts, but Yoss was spot in in that it doesn't really matter: the rule regarding the appeal "succeeding" is just a way of, basically, saying what happens at the meeting. Indeed we could. But, as I pointed out yesterday, its all irrelevant. Its not up to Livy to interpret the rules as they see fit. If they were unsure as to whether the original decision would stand until the appeal, then they should have asked the SFL to clarify. It doesnt really matter whether Livys interpretation was right or wrong, its not up to them to decide what the rules mean. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WJR Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 (edited) Maybe you should have bolded the next line too oh, and the next one, where it says that the SFL can make a representation as to why the decision shouldnt be set aside.Other than that, good work Agreed. So Livi were still and SFL1 club last Saturday and within their rights to not play an SFL3 fixture. The last appeals procedure I was involved in required the Secretary to confirm the appeal had been received but the SFL don't seem to have that additional step. Livi sent in the papers to the Secretary so job done. Actually, let me edit that as it talks about an appeal being validly lodged withe Secretary which does suggest that the Secretary needs to confirm that the appeal has been validly lodged Which brings us back to my favourite topic of the moment - the paperwork! Edited August 14, 2009 by WJR 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamthebam Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 I'll just back up me old mucker WJR- he should know the appeals process inside out as Spartans have lodged a few in recent seasons..... ....some of which they actually succeeded in! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantoms-livi-lass Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 I've just realised that due to our game being on tomorrow I won't see AND180Y in the phantom suit! Truly gutted! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 I'll just back up me old mucker WJR- he should know the appeals process inside out as Spartans have lodged a few in recent seasons.........some of which they actually succeeded in! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Agreed. So Livi were still and SFL1 club last Saturday and within their rights to not play an SFL3 fixture.The last appeals procedure I was involved in required the Secretary to confirm the appeal had been received but the SFL don't seem to have that additional step. Livi sent in the papers to the Secretary so job done. Actually, let me edit that as it talks about an appeal being validly lodged withe Secretary which does suggest that the Secretary needs to confirm that the appeal has been validly lodged Which brings us back to my favourite topic of the moment - the paperwork! No, because the rules quoted there relate to an appeal to the SFA, not the SPL. I hope you took more care over the appeals you prepared 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WJR Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 No, because the rules quoted there relate to an appeal to the SFA, not the SPL. I hope you took more care over the appeals you prepared Eh? Firstly, I didn't post the extract from the rules but took it in good faith by the poster as being the SFL rules which, quite frankly, I have not got the slightest inclination to do on this matter. It's not my appeal. I'd suggest that everyone else yourself included was working from the same premise too. I've said umpteen times I don't know what the SFL (not SPL - do take more care when attempting to be a smart arse) rules are and was making the point that I would be interested to see the correspondence. Don't you worry Mr X, our appeals are all fine 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 WJR is correct in that normally you'd submit the appeal, and set the punishment aside until it's all sorted out. However, the argument here is that in this particular case the SFL believe the opposite. As has also been stated, the SFL could ask the SFA to keep Livi in Div 3 during the process, even if Livi refused to do so. Livi aren't going to do that, but again it highlights more rule loopholes IMO. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 I'll just back up me old mucker WJR- he should know the appeals process inside out as Spartans have lodged a few in recent seasons.........some of which they actually succeeded in! Eh? Firstly, I didn't post the extract from the rules but took it in good faith by the poster as being the SFL rules which, quite frankly, I have not got the slightest inclination to do on this matter. It's not my appeal. I'd suggest that everyone else yourself included was working from the same premise too.I've said umpteen times I don't know what the SFL (not SPL - do take more care when attempting to be a smart arse) rules are and was making the point that I would be interested to see the correspondence. Don't you worry Mr X, our appeals are all fine I would have though you would instantly have recognised them, knowing them inside out as you do. Smart arse? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 I would have though you would instantly have recognised them, knowing them inside out as you do.Smart arse? Easy lads .... And no-one's foolproof, not even Spartans. Ask Kenny Young or Dean Hoskins... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WJR Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 I would have though you would instantly have recognised them, knowing them inside out as you do.Smart arse? Oh dear - I've never. claimed to know the rules inside out for every football body 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WJR Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Easy lads .... And no-one's foolproof, not even Spartans. Ask Kenny Young or Dean Hoskins... Cheers HJ - I don't think we bothered appealing in Kenny's case - thanks for that little flashback 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 (edited) Oh dear - I've never. claimed to know the rules inside out for every football body Cheers HJ - I don't think we bothered appealing in Kenny's case - thanks for that little flashback All in jest WJR ... But I did a doubletake when I saw the following article in the EEN last week!! Swotting up on the rule book at Ainslie Parkhttp://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/Ho...-the.5533490.jp Edited August 14, 2009 by HibeeJibee 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Cheers HJ - I don't think we bothered appealing in Kenny's case - thanks for that little flashback Maybe if you knew the rules a bit better then you could have 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantoms-livi-lass Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 FFS! I think the rules have been debated to death! Please bring back Duncan Freemason all is forgiven! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AND180Y Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 FFS! I think the rules have been debated to death! Please bring back Duncan Freemason all is forgiven! Bloody turncoat. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 FFS! I think the rules have been debated to death! Please bring back Duncan Freemason all is forgiven! Steady on old girl, no need that that sort of language! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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