The New Raith Rovers Thread

[CountryBumpkin]

2 minutes ago, Michael W said:

Took a rare visit over to Fantalk to see if anything had been posted on there RE the takeover. Nothing going, but saw this from the AGM, posted by @Specky Ginger

Fucking hell. Things are even worse than I thought they were. Genuinely thought we'd make a profit given the Rangers game, but still staring down the barrel of a loss double the average during Sim's tenure. 

Part of that loss will likely include the probable final league position, had we won the last few games and could be 4th or 5th, that loss would be perhaps £200k - £250k

[Broken Algorithms]

1 hour ago, pub car king said:

Hello, is that Mike Dellios. Listen I think we might have been a bit hasty a few months ago are you still interested. 

Aye, let's go with the guy who each wanted to bring in his jobber son to play for us and who was off making oddball PowerPoint presentations about training. 

Sounds like they've hit a ceiling at Kelty and want to move onto a club who can move to the next level.  Our board and marketing will have had plenty of interaction with Barrowman from his time at Joma. 

 

It's clear the status quo isn't sustainable. This will free us up from the logjam and hopefully able to move on. 

[Raith Against The Machine]

The Daily Mail (I know) putting slightly more meat on the bones. 

I don't know that clicking on that paywall-removal link will benefit the Daily Mail anyway, but just in case it does, here's the relevant part:

"Midfielder Michael Tidser will replace Potter as manager at New Central Park next season, with McKenzie expected to complete the purchase of Championship Raith Rovers from Thailand-based businessman John Sim after weeks of negotiations. Barrowman and Potter are expected to head up Raith’s commercial and football operation, with current manager Ian Murray expected to stay on."

So as speculated, looks like Barrowman and Potter are going into supporting 'upstairs' roles. Perhaps more interesting is that it's being described as a "takeover" and a "purchase", rather a supplement of what's already there. Quite different from what Sim was suggesting as recently as the middle of last week.

[Michael W]

7 minutes ago, Scary Bear said:

It’s a worry that we can’t even break even this season. An ongoing basket case of a club.

It's not as if the club is under the total control of a man that ran a global accountancy firm or anything like that. Unbelievable. 

 

6 minutes ago, CountryBumpkin said:

Part of that loss will likely include the probable final league position, had we won the last few games and could be 4th or 5th, that loss would be perhaps £200k - £250k

Even then, take away that Rangers game and we're into -£500k territory. 

That is appalling. How can the budgeting for the season have been so wrong? 

Edited April 14, 2023 by Michael W

[Dalziel8]

8 minutes ago, Michael W said:

Took a rare visit over to Fantalk to see if anything had been posted on there RE the takeover. Nothing going, but saw this from the AGM, posted by @Specky Ginger

Fucking hell. Things are even worse than I thought they were. Genuinely thought we'd make a profit given the Rangers game, but still staring down the barrel of a loss double the average during Sim's tenure. 

I can’t get my head around accounts like that when our owner is a top dog in a global accounting firm!

[RRFC_Liam]

11 minutes ago, Michael W said:

Took a rare visit over to Fantalk to see if anything had been posted on there RE the takeover. Nothing going, but saw this from the AGM, posted by @Specky Ginger

Fucking hell. Things are even worse than I thought they were. Genuinely thought we'd make a profit given the Rangers game, but still staring down the barrel of a loss double the average during Sim's tenure. 

2 people on here who posted figures as well I think @Zen Archer (Raconteur) was one so either the guy on Fan talk is speaking tosh or the folk on here are so it’s 50/50

[CountryBumpkin]

7 minutes ago, Michael W said:

It's not as if the club is under the total control of a man that ran a global accountancy firm or anything like that. Unbelievable. 

 

Even then, take away that Rangers game and we're into -£500k territory. 

That is appalling. How can the budgeting for the season have been so wrong? 

Lower crowds this year, piss poor away attendances besides Dundee in the league and a pretty weak home support means to stay full time we're pushing beyond our sustainable means. Make a loss or go part time, cut cloth accordingly. I don't see many other ways on 1700 average home attendance.

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

1 minute ago, RRFC_Liam said:

2 people on here who posted figures as well I think @Zen Archer (Raconteur) was one so either the guy on Fan talk is speaking tosh or the folk on here are so it’s 50/50

Before you go bush on this, I quoted directly from the powerpoint at the agm.

I don't have a copy of the accounts, which interestingly were shredded by an ex board member who was curious as to why (figure quoted was £2M) was 'spaffed away'

I assume the £2M was included in turnover* and the spaffing included DG, Keatings and JMcG on his weird contract arrangements.

*I am prepared to be corrected on this point.

[RRFC_Liam]

1 minute ago, Zen Archer (Raconteur) said:

Before you go bush on this, I quoted directly from the powerpoint at the agm.

I’m not saying your a liar and I’m not gonna bash on this but there are 2 different figure quotes that’s all I was saying and someone could be making up stuff that’s all 

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

2 minutes ago, RRFC_Liam said:

I’m not saying your a liar

I'm quite glad of this as I fancy a long lie tomorrow and can't be arsed sending my seconds round to your gaff to offer you pistols at dawn.

[Michael W]

12 minutes ago, Dalziel8 said:

I can’t get my head around accounts like that when our owner is a top dog in a global accounting firm!

We might not have the relevant expertise in running a football club (Sim's own words) available, but you would hope we could at least run  a disciplined operation with regards cost. Jeezo. What a job the incomers have to try and plug these gaps. 

 

9 minutes ago, RRFC_Liam said:

2 people on here who posted figures as well I think @Zen Archer (Raconteur) was one so either the guy on Fan talk is speaking tosh or the folk on here are so it’s 50/50

The figure the FT poster entered for last season (21/22) was accurate and hence I took their figure at face value for the current season. Bear in mind it's a projection and not a solid figure, but even if that projection was a bit too pessimistic, we are still going to incur a dreadful loss in a season we had a televised game at Ibrox in front of 42,000. 

 

6 minutes ago, CountryBumpkin said:

Lower crowds this year, piss poor away attendances besides Dundee in the league and a pretty weak home support means to stay full time we're pushing beyond our sustainable means. Make a loss or go part time, cut cloth accordingly. I don't see many other ways on 1700 average home attendance.

All fair reflections, but also things that common sense dictates you work into your budgeting, which it appears has been catastrophically wrong. 

[RRFC_Liam]

8 minutes ago, Zen Archer (Raconteur) said:

fancy a long lie tomorrow and can't be arsed sending my seconds round to your gaff to offer you pistols at dawn.

Didn’t ask tbf 

[TxRover]

13 minutes ago, RRFC_Liam said:

Didn’t ask tbf 

I have a lovely dueling set you two can use, pretty much mandatory here in Texas.

But, on the other subject:

-He who shall not be named cost fees, salary, support, advertising and more…I could easily see that being over £250,000 over the last two years.

-Keatings apparently cost £30,000 to dump, plus fees and salary to that point…probably easily another £30,000 for a total of £60,000+

-Apparently various fees for contracted studies, assessment and such are still arriving from the former CEO’s tenure…that’s likely in the tens out thousands.

-JMcG handed out contracts with escalator clauses, and we still have some on the books, that’s likely in the £10,000-20,000+ range above previous costs.

-Regardless, just these items total over £330,000+, and could easily total over £400,000. If you take those loses and compare to the results reported, we would have just about broken even over the five year period vs being some £350,000-£400,000 in the hole.
 

So, what do the Kelty mob potentially bring to the table:

-Development experience at Kelty

-Community outreach and involvement experience with Kelty

-Business knowledge from within the SFA/SPFL realm, something sorely lacking with our current BoD

-Football contacts

-An infusion of some new money

What was Kelty Hearts when they started, a small Junior club. When they left they are a League One team, and known as an attractive visit because of good hospitality and with a well developed community outreach and development program.  New Central Park has only around 350 seats and still pulls in visitors. Now, give the same management team Starks Park, and don’t you think they should be able to make an inroad on improving hospitality and the quality of the match day experience. We all know SP needs investment and improvement, this may be a direct way to achieve that while also improving the product on the pitch. If they can galvanize the area as they did at Kelty, imagine getting back to 2,500-3,000+ fans a game.

Do I love this, not too much…do I hate it, no…do I fear it, less than the grifters at Silverbear. It is what it is, it seems the best of some bad hands, and might well be good.

[Kuma Power]

18 minutes ago, TxRover said:

But, on the other subject:

-He who shall not be named cost fees, salary, support, advertising and more…I could easily see that being over £250,000 over the last two years.

-Keatings apparently cost £30,000 to dump, plus fees and salary to that point…probably easily another £30,000 for a total of £60,000+

-Apparently various fees for contracted studies, assessment and such are still arriving from the former CEO’s tenure…that’s likely in the tens out thousands.

-JMcG handed out contracts with escalator clauses, and we still have some on the books, that’s likely in the £10,000-20,000+ range above previous costs.

-Regardless, just these items total over £330,000+, and could easily total over £400,000. If you take those loses and compare to the results reported, we would have just about broken even over the five year period vs being some £350,000-£400,000 in the hole.

Plus you can factor in whatever we paid Frederiksen in wages, as well as the amount we spent to bring him here and anything we might have paid to settle with him to leave. I also seem to remember hearing some throwaway comment on RaithTV about us only being able to afford Isma if we got past Motherwell in the cup (apologies if I misrememembered that though), so our contribution to his wages won't have been cheap either if that was the case. These two together likely won't be six figures, but could easily be another several 10k for very little return on the pitch.

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

2 minutes ago, Kuma Power said:

whatever we paid Frederiksen in wages

There was some mention of a specialist lawyer to facilitate the deal.

[TxRover]

3 minutes ago, Kuma Power said:

Plus you can factor in whatever we paid Frederiksen in wages, as well as the amount we spent to bring him here and anything we might have paid to settle with him to leave. I also seem to remember hearing some throwaway comment on RaithTV about us only being able to afford Isma if we got past Motherwell in the cup (apologies if I misrememembered that though), so our contribution to his wages won't have been cheap either if that was the case. These two together likely won't be six figures, but could easily be another several 10k for very little return on the pitch.

Of course, by minutes played per goal, Isma’s our second most productive since Nisbet…

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

Quote of the evening from Mr Sim 'there is a 1st Division club paring their budget for next year to £100K'

*scratches chin.

I wonder who that might be?

[TxRover]

3 hours ago, Zen Archer (Raconteur) said:

Quote of the evening from Mr Sim 'there is a 1st Division club paring their budget for next year to £100K'

*scratches chin.

I wonder who that might be?

With a little digging, we can get to the heart of the matter.

[Ro Sham Bo]

From today's Courier

'Speaking about the impending changes at Stark's Park, a relieved Murray commented "it's always a concern for a manager when there is change at the top, but I've had a good conversation with Dean and he's assured me that, thanks to my two years at Rangers, I tick all the boxes in what he's looking for in a manager." Murray confirmed that he hopes to be in a position to confirm the signing of an attacking midfielder soon, but that for now he's focused on the crucial clash against Arbroath (see page 53).'

[roverthemoon]

Looking at the finances of the club, Sim’s tenure has been incredibly poor with a couple of disastrous decisions in there which damaged relations all over the place - Goodwillie, McCartney as CEO. The criticism of how the club operates and its governance at the AGM was an eye opener. Capped off by pretty much refusing the supporters director a place at the table. 

If this new group gives us a functioning board and rids of us having one person in charge who thinks he knows best about everything - despite all evidence pointing to the contrary - then it’s an absolute step up. Hopefully it will also rid us of MacDonald and Morgan and the last stain of the DG decision.