The New Raith Rovers Thread

[Ro Sham Bo]

Murray OUT!

Oh wait, we won, again!

Wait till next week........

He's still a crap manager.

[Big Berk]

He's still a crap manager.

He is. But he's due some credit - there's a case for saying he was a better manager than McGlynn today.

[roverthemoon]

Good victory. 4 wins from 6 in the league is a great start to the season. Hopefully keep the doom merchants quiet this week

[Big Berk]

I was surprised at how poor Livi were today. Maybe its the dead hand of McGlynn, but I've formed the opinion that apart from the two at the top the rest of the teams must be pretty much dross for what is grandly called a 'championship'. The standard on show in the two lower divisions must be wretched.

Cue howls of derision.

However, it was a pleasant day out - football can be enjoyed regardless of the standard of play so long as there's some effort and excitement. Some of the Scottish Cup ties involving Highland Leaguers and Juniors look exciting prospects. I might nip along to one.

[CowdenConvert]

Good victory. 4 wins from 6 in the league is a great start to the season. Hopefully keep the doom merchants quiet this week

Disastrous start. Big berk has a point.

[Michael W]

Murray still has a long way to go in winning back support. People still haven't forgotten that dreadful run at the end of last season, which is why he's never really more than a couple of bad results away from some demanding his head. Yes, we've started well, but this isn't the time for some sort of point scoring mission - remember that it wasn't long ago at all that the cries for him to be given his jotters were near unanimous.

Not getting absolutely thrashed whenever we come up against a decent side would also help his case, right enough.

[Rovers1992/1993]

Murray still has a long way to go in winning back support. People still haven't forgotten that dreadful run at the end of last season, which is why he's never really more than a couple of bad results away from some demanding his head. Yes, we've started well, but this isn't the time for some sort of point scoring mission - remember that it wasn't long ago at all that the cries for him to be given his jotters were near unanimous.

Not getting absolutely thrashed whenever we come up against a decent side would also help his case, right enough.

Completely Agree.

This season he has to have us challenging for the promotion play-offs til the end of the season, I'm not saying we have to be in them but he has to have us challenging for them. That would be an achievement as we have Hearts, Rangers, Hibs and Falkirk who really should be miles ahead come the end of the season.

Along the way, we need to give each of the 3 'big' teams good games as well, hopefully picking up a few points( hopefully wins) along the way.

That shouldn't be too much to ask for as Alloa have shown with a win and a draw against 2 of the 3 at the minute. Dumbarton also went and kept a clean sheet at Tynecastle as well. Why should we settle for 4-0 gubbings against them if teams, that we've already proven to be considerably better than can take points no problem from them..?

Saying all that, sitting in a healthy position at the minute, maybe he has learnt from last season afterall...only time will tell though..

[Michael W]

Completely Agree.

This season he has to have us challenging for the promotion play-offs til the end of the season, I'm not saying we have to be in them but he has to have us challenging for them. That would be an achievement as we have Hearts, Rangers, Hibs and Falkirk who really should be miles ahead come the end of the season.

Along the way, we need to give each of the 3 'big' teams good games as well, hopefully picking up a few points( hopefully wins) along the way.

That shouldn't be too much to ask for as Alloa have shown with a win and a draw against 2 of the 3 at the minute. Dumbarton also went and kept a clean sheet at Tynecastle as well. Why should we settle for 4-0 gubbings against them if teams, that we've already proven to be considerably better than can take points no problem from them..?

Saying all that, sitting in a healthy position at the minute, maybe he has learnt from last season afterall...only time will tell though..

Absolutely.

I will be be happy if we mount a challenge for the play-offs this season. If we fall just short, bad luck, but I'll be satisfied the club is moving forward.

What we need to avoid is another relegation scare and another prolonged poor run of form which, lets be honest, we seem to do anyway even if not as badly as that of last season.

[turboshandy]

There has to come a point, surely, where we stop using the "two league wins since Christmas" stick to beat Grant Murray with. I'm not saying we disregard it completely, and I'm certainly not a fan of GM's managerial reign thus far, but it seems the bottom line of any argument is the run at the end of last season.

The majority of fans, on seeing the opening fixtures, suggested 3 wins from the opening 5 league games was certainly achievable; Alloa, Dumbarton and Cowden being the teams we should fare well against, anything from Hearts and Rangers being considered a bonus but in no way expected. Performances have not been great, but the achievable results came to light.

At that point, the argument was, wins against the part-time teams wouldn't shape our season any more than defeats against Hearts, Rangers and possibly Hibs would; it was how we fared against Livi, QOS and Falkirk that would be the measure of any progress being made. We've kicked that off with an away win and clean sheet at Livingston, we sit third (early days, I know) behind the "big two" and there's already a wee gap appearing between the play off positions and the rest of the league. (again, I know it's early days).

From a results point of view, the season has been, as far as I'm concerned, acceptable enough. I doubt there are many who wouldn't have been happy had they been given third place with four wins after six games at the start of the season, yet I keep seeing last season's horrendous run referenced. At what point do we draw a line under it and start afresh?

I'll point out that I am in no way a fan of Grant Murray's reign as Raith Rovers manager, and like most think he is very lucky to still be in a job after last season, but while the team are competing well in the league then I have no issue with him being in charge.

We'll see what happens once the clocks go back..

[CowdenConvert]

^^^ far too sensible to be a Rovers fan.

[Big Berk]

From a results point of view, the season has been, as far as I'm concerned, acceptable enough. I doubt there are many who wouldn't have been happy had they been given third place with four wins after six games at the start of the season, yet I keep seeing last season's horrendous run referenced. At what point do we draw a line under it and start afresh?

Well, because of the inept performances at the start of the season, especially against Dunfermline, after most of us saying we'll see how he does in the new season. It was 'more of the same'.

We know there's more football in the team than Murray seems able to bring out, but now and again we get a half decent performance that gives some optimism - yesterday will temper some of the frustration with Murray. He's still going to be closely scrutinised until some consistency comes our way

Edited September 21, 2014 by Big Berk

[turboshandy]

Well, because of the inept performances at the start of the season, especially against Dunfermline, after most of us saying we'll see how he does in the new season. It was 'more of the same'.

Performances haven't been great at times, granted. The Dunfermline game aside, the results have been pretty much as good as could be expected and see us sitting pretty in the league, wouldn't you agree? It just seems to me, any time the current season is mentioned favourably, the argument is, "Aye, but two league wins since Christmas". Last season has to stop being a factor at some point, surely?

[Big Berk]

Fair enough. To be more accurate without trying to split hairs the results have been see-sawing wildly, but the league position is better than expected. Yesterday gave grounds for cautious optimism. If the same solid performances become more regular no doubt last season's debacle will fade from the memory.

Edited September 21, 2014 by Big Berk

[roverthemoon]

Last three games in this quarter will give us a good sense of how the rest of the season will pan out. We're playing three teams you'd expect to be in the mix for a play off come the end of the season. If we can pick up 5 or 6 points from those games it will have been a tremendous start to season.

Thought the team yesterday looked more of a team than they have all season. Encouraging

[Scary Bear]

Last three games in this quarter will give us a good sense of how the rest of the season will pan out.

Have you forgotten the last two seasons? When the clock goes back we'll see how our season will pan out.

Excellent start to this season, as usual, humpings from the big teams aside. Winning at Livi was a great result for us.

Edited September 21, 2014 by Scary Bear

[Pride of Fife]

How can a quarter of the games give us any real indication on proceedings after last season?

We were top three a year ago after 1st round of games yet finished the season a point ahead of Cowden in the relegation play off place.

Thankfully with Cowden losing all the goals that Hemmings and Stewart provided they will struggle to claw back so much ground this time round... Hopefully!

[Ro Sham Bo]

That's the problem. Because of record in general from about October/ November onwards it's hard to view these results as much reason for encouragement, especially given that we've not played particularly well either. If we can maintain a level of consistency throughout the season that sees us pick up a reasonable tally of points each quarter then we can say we've made progress and the pressure will be off Murray.

[Paco]

I suppose realistically we'd all have been very happy with the start we've had if offered it in July, the Dunfermline result aside of course. Yesterday's result was a good one - I think the overall surprise about it though speaks volumes about the way we've played over the last calendar year, our last away league win against a full-time side came on the 14th of September 2013, a 1-0 win against Queen of the South!

We should only judge over what we've seen since July but last season really was so bad it's difficult to forget. This season results have went as expected, EEP aside - and even then I don't think we'd have minded the result, it was just the performance that night was beyond woeful.

Our games against Hearts, Rangers and Dundee on their own haven't been disastrous, overpowered by a better side etc, but we've made the same mistakes over and over. I said before the season started I didn't think we had the players to play on the back foot against these type of sides and my opinion certainly hasn't exactly wavered on that score given I'm not sure we managed a shot on target in any of them - perhaps the addition of McKay will help a little for Easter Road in a fortnight. I didn't so much mind the humping by Hearts, but by the time we played Rangers lessons should've been learned - it's not only that we've seen Dumbarton, Alloa, QoS, Falkirk etc all give them far better games than we managed, it's that we managed it last season and seem determined to play a different way than the way we know worked!

At this stage I think we can be pretty pleased with the season thus far - certainly though there's a whole host of problems in need of sorting out. Those suggesting "Murray out" at this stage are probably in some manner of delusion, but conversely to suggest we're doing great as we've won the games we should and lost the games we should isn't exactly a fair summary of the season either.

Personally I feel we should just make the most of the victories coming in just now, there's only five more games until the clocks go back.....

Edited September 21, 2014 by Paco

[Yoss]

As ever, I dislike the thing about judging managers on "results" in such a short-term sense as it's usually taken. I'm not one of those who has called for Murray's head at any point after bad results, and likewise neither am I getting carried away about our early - and very likely false - league position. Delighted with the results of course, but this team has not been convincing yet.

If they can maintain it and make us at least candidates for a play-off spot then great. If it goes south and ends up like last season then that'd be two seasons in a row that Murray had mostly failed to put a cohesive team together, and it'd be difficult to see how he could survive that however much I like him and want him to succeed.

So, let's see how it goes. Meantime I'm happy to let him get on with his job and not keep discussing it every week.

[Rover the Moon]

There has to come a point, surely, where we stop using the "two league wins since Christmas" stick to beat Grant Murray with. I'm not saying we disregard it completely, and I'm certainly not a fan of GM's managerial reign thus far, but it seems the bottom line of any argument is the run at the end of last season.

The majority of fans, on seeing the opening fixtures, suggested 3 wins from the opening 5 league games was certainly achievable; Alloa, Dumbarton and Cowden being the teams we should fare well against, anything from Hearts and Rangers being considered a bonus but in no way expected. Performances have not been great, but the achievable results came to light.

At that point, the argument was, wins against the part-time teams wouldn't shape our season any more than defeats against Hearts, Rangers and possibly Hibs would; it was how we fared against Livi, QOS and Falkirk that would be the measure of any progress being made. We've kicked that off with an away win and clean sheet at Livingston, we sit third (early days, I know) behind the "big two" and there's already a wee gap appearing between the play off positions and the rest of the league. (again, I know it's early days).

From a results point of view, the season has been, as far as I'm concerned, acceptable enough. I doubt there are many who wouldn't have been happy had they been given third place with four wins after six games at the start of the season, yet I keep seeing last season's horrendous run referenced. At what point do we draw a line under it and start afresh?

I'll point out that I am in no way a fan of Grant Murray's reign as Raith Rovers manager, and like most think he is very lucky to still be in a job after last season, but while the team are competing well in the league then I have no issue with him being in charge.

We'll see what happens once the clocks go back..

Good post. I'd also add the "we've only beaten part-time teams" or "first time we've won away to a full-time team since..." posts that crop up against Murray's record to your list. Every game in this league is hard and you only have to look at Hibs and Rangers failing to win at Alloa to see that. We got three points and a clean sheet there. You don't get fewer points for beating part-time teams, the fact is we've won four from six and are doing fine.