Scottydog Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said: The SFA has certainly encouraged the creation of regional academies albeit they haven't "forced" it. Yet. The South West clubs haven't agreed to form one yet, continuing on our individual ways but obviously Forth, Fife and Highlands have all gone for it. I don't know exactly how it works but I was under the impression that kids were registered to individual clubs but attend the Academy training and play for the Academy. If that's the case then the clubs are as protected as they would have been with kids registered in individual academies. 'Project Brave' will over-ride the whole lot of it when it comes in anyway but the detail of that is still to be fully revealed. Not quite my understanding, I think they said that players up to a certain age are registered to the academy and can sign for any club once when they reach the given age (16 I think). If that is indeed the case, then any kid who looks a decent prospect will doubtless be offered terms by all four clubs in the academy. What kid though would opt for a part-time contract with EFFC or Cowden if there's a full time contract offer on the table from the other two? I get what you're saying about the level of protection being the same but that's kinda my point as there's nothing to stop kids going to the likes of Hibs and Herts or Rangers and Celtic now and the compensation paid back is paltry. The only way that there is a gain for the PT sides is actually if a youngster goes to another club out with the Academy as at least then they will receive 25% of the components fee. I'm just not convinced it benefits the smaller teams as much as the bigger ones. Edited April 5, 2017 by Scottydog 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raith Against The Machine Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Why would anyone choose to sign for us, in the shitty development league, when they could sign for Dunfermline, in the proper one? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invocr Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 18 hours ago, Raith Against The Machine said: Why would anyone choose to sign for us, in the shitty development league, when they could sign for Dunfermline, in the proper one? 23 hours ago, Scottydog said: So basically anyone who's any good will decide to go to the best place/offer he can, quite whats in it for Raith let alone East Fife or Cowden I struggle to see. Two quotes above sum it up for me. As we're still full-time are we just going to have to sign the "best of the rest", that don't get signed by clubs in the top development league and hope that Craig Easton can un-earth / coach a hidden gem that was somehow missed before he turned sixteen? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 19 hours ago, Scottydog said: Not quite my understanding, I think they said that players up to a certain age are registered to the academy and can sign for any club once when they reach the given age (16 I think). If that is indeed the case, then any kid who looks a decent prospect will doubtless be offered terms by all four clubs in the academy. What kid though would opt for a part-time contract with EFFC or Cowden if there's a full time contract offer on the table from the other two? I get what you're saying about the level of protection being the same but that's kinda my point as there's nothing to stop kids going to the likes of Hibs and Herts or Rangers and Celtic now and the compensation paid back is paltry. The only way that there is a gain for the PT sides is actually if a youngster goes to another club out with the Academy as at least then they will receive 25% of the components fee. I'm just not convinced it benefits the smaller teams as much as the bigger ones. As I say, not sure exactly how it works as we're not in one. There have been suggestions of a South West Academy incorporating Ayr, Kilmarnock, Stranraer, Queen of the South and Annan but it hasn't happened yet. I think the distances involved would make it more impractical than it is with Forth, Fife and even Highlands. It's a pretty vast area but Project Brave may force it happening anyway. Or it may just effectively cast us loose outside the formal SFA development system and leave the Ayrshire clubs within it. I doubt we'll be one of the "chosen 12" or however many it is will be selected to run an Academy. We're not in the top level of the Development League now and we're only Bronze Standard at Club Academy though we've a fairly good recent record of bringing players through to first team and beyond. Agree with the rest of your point. Scotland is a relatively small country to be honest though and most decent kids have already gone to Celtic or Rangers long before they reach the stage of graduating to professionals out of an Academy. However at the end of the day if a kid out of the Club Academy system wants to go play for Rangers rather than sign professionally for us, there's nothing we can do to stop it. We'd be due a formula based compensation package for their training but it is fairly paltry, especially if you haven't had them for all that long. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beachbum Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 (edited) We've got 2 excellent prospects from Fife Elite FA in Ryan Stevenson and James Berry. Also, we got Kyle Bell through a roundabout route but he was with Fife Elite until last summer. Let's face it we're not going to get a return on this in just a year or two, if at all, but we have to give it a go. The alternative is to let Dunfermline have it all to themselves and, pish as they are at youth development, I'd rather not. Edited April 6, 2017 by Beachbum 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoBNob Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 Lol wut? We're certainly no worse than Raith, how bizarre. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beachbum Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 7 hours ago, Grant228 said: Lol wut? We're certainly no worse than Raith, how bizarre. I'll grant you we haven't been very good of late but of all the full time teams in Scotland Dunfermline have the worst track record of producing players from their youth teams. I can't tell you how happy that makes me feel. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 7 minutes ago, Beachbum said: I'll grant you we haven't been very good of late but of all the full time teams in Scotland Dunfermline have the worst track record of producing players from their youth teams. I can't tell you how happy that makes me feel. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoBNob Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 I'll grant you we haven't been very good of late but of all the full time teams in Scotland Dunfermline have the worst track record of producing players from their youth teams. I can't tell you how happy that makes me feel. [emoji38] Al decide. There's a good players dotted around the lower leagues who came from Dunfermline, including one at Raith Rovers. Again, we're not any worse, and we're probably better of than Raith Rovers. When we do sell youth players to one of the old firm we even get money... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaboz Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 Oh Aye, PJ who? PJ ching ££££ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beachbum Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 15 hours ago, Grant228 said: Lol wut? We're certainly no worse than Raith, how bizarre. 7 hours ago, Grant228 said: Al decide. There's a good players dotted around the lower leagues who came from Dunfermline, including one at Raith Rovers. Again, we're not any worse, and we're probably better of than Raith Rovers. When we do sell youth players to one of the old firm we even get money... 7 hours ago, Stellaboz said: Oh Aye, PJ who? PJ ching ££££ Crossan is the only 18 player of note to make it from Dunfermline's youth/reserve team in the last 20 years and he has yet to kick a ball for Celtic's first team. Before him you have to go back 10 years to Sean Murdoch, but he was a product of Hearts youth. Before that there's Greg Ross (2005) and Colin Nish (1998). If Crossan doesn't make it you won't have produced a decent player since Jackie McNamara, 24 years ago. On the point of PJ ching ££££, how much money did you receive in 1992 when you told Stevie Crawford to f**k off because he wasn't good enough? Happy days. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy85 Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 Selling your best youngsters to Rangers and loaning your goal scorers to relegation rivals is more important than winning games of football IMO. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoBNob Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 What is your definition of making it? Sean Murdoch played for our youths, as did Scougall and he's alright. Same with McHattie who we made money from, Mercer has just moved for money to Queens etc, go through the lower leagues of Scotland and you'll have more Dunfermline youth players than Raith. You also have Martin and William sons in our current team. Apart from being utterly and completely wrong though Bravo, f**k knows what you have to get happy about now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ro Sham Bo Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 If you managed to con someone into paying money for McHattie fair play to you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beachbum Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 11 hours ago, Grant228 said: What is your definition of making it? Sean Murdoch played for our youths, as did Scougall and he's alright. Same with McHattie who we made money from, Mercer has just moved for money to Queens etc, go through the lower leagues of Scotland and you'll have more Dunfermline youth players than Raith. You also have Martin and William sons in our current team. Apart from being utterly and completely wrong though Bravo, f**k knows what you have to get happy about now. You really are scraping the barrel with that lot and there are some important facts that you've conveniently missed out as well. Sean Murdoch had 11 under 18 Scotland caps with Hearts and was there for several years before he got anywhere near Dunfermline. He left you having played the sum total of 5 first team games in 4 years. Stefan Scougall was with Hibs youth from 2003-09. After joining you he was kicked out 9 months later for being 5 foot 7 inches. Even your own supporters admit that giving Scougall a free was a monumental blunder. Gone are the days when you signed and developed players like Alex Smith (1958), Eddie Connachan (1958), Cammie Fraser (1959), George Miller (1959), Jim Herriot (1960), Jackie Sinclair (1960), Alex Edwards (1961), John Lunn (1962), Tommy Callaghan (1962), Jim Fraser (1963) and Eric Martin (1964). Dunfermline Athletic produced more players in that 6 year spell than in almost all of the nearly 60 years since combined. But that was then and nowadays it's teams like Livingston, Hamilton, Motherwell and Falkirk that have the best track records for producing quality players. Snodgrass, McCarthy, Murphy and Fulton did not play Dunfermline's youth team. But McHattie, Murdoch and Williamson did. Lol wut my arse. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CALDERON Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 Glong into that much detail about another teams youth players is pretty weird. The obsession some of our fans have over Dunfermline is cringe worthy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101 Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 11 minutes ago, Beachbum said: You really are scraping the barrel with that lot and there are some important facts that you've conveniently missed out as well. Sean Murdoch had 11 under 18 Scotland caps with Hearts and was there for several years before he got anywhere near Dunfermline. He left you having played the sum total of 5 first team games in 4 years. Stefan Scougall was with Hibs youth from 2003-09. After joining you he was kicked out 9 months later for being 5 foot 7 inches. Even your own supporters admit that giving Scougall a free was a monumental blunder. Gone are the days when you signed and developed players like Alex Smith (1958), Eddie Connachan (1958), Cammie Fraser (1959), George Miller (1959), Jim Herriot (1960), Jackie Sinclair (1960), Alex Edwards (1961), John Lunn (1962), Tommy Callaghan (1962), Jim Fraser (1963) and Eric Martin (1964). Dunfermline Athletic produced more players in that 6 year spell than in almost all of the nearly 60 years since combined. But that was then and nowadays it's teams like Livingston, Hamilton, Motherwell and Falkirk that have the best track records for producing quality players. Snodgrass, McCarthy, Murphy and Fulton did not play Dunfermline's youth team. But McHattie, Murdoch and Williamson did. Lol wut my arse. Perhaps the fact you mention only 4 teams have produced 'quality' players is more of a problem than just Dunfermline only Motherwell and Hamilton are premiership teams on your list although Celtic and Rangers have a decent amount of Scottish talent in their squads is it not more of an issue that the other premiership teams with premiership budgets are falling woefully short of the mark. I actually think youth development is more usefully discusses as a fife issue now as the four teams are in it together and each club must work as hard as they can to help whatever talent is available to us to develop as best they can not only for our clubs who can't simply by the best players and have to nurture talent but also for the Scottish game as a whole 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 20 minutes ago, Beachbum said: You really are scraping the barrel with that lot and there are some important facts that you've conveniently missed out as well. Scraping the barrel.... SCRAPING THE BARREL 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 (edited) Do we lose league points for not producing enough players of an as yet unspecified standard (still waiting on Beachbum to tell us what said standard is) across a certain period of time (again, we'll need this cleared up by Beachbum)? This, added to the points deduction we'll get for cheating a few years ago (although some types of cheating are fine, and there is apparently a time limit after which you can't bring it up again) will surely see us relegated. Edited April 8, 2017 by DA Baracus 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancient Mariner Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 fighting for our lives to stay in the division and he makes a substitute with 4 minutes to go what is that all about ???? did Court even get a kick of the ball ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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