The New Raith Rovers Thread

[CALDERON]

1 hour ago, raith1974 said:

Looks like we will be struggling to field a defence against Dundee  but when you look at the squad then Murray has to take some of the blame. We have virtually no cover I'm defence yet have numerous number 10s who are all very similar and lightweight. No balance to the squad and just like our first game against Cove back in August here we are still playing players out of position. This maybe okay for a 1st div club but in a very competitive Championship we need players playing in their position with back up available. 

To be fair to Murray, the only one of those number 10s he signed was Easton.  And he has a decent amount of defensive cover tbh.  3 defenders were out injured today, and an additional one during the game.  There's only so much additional cover you can sign.

The major concern today is the number of injuries happening at the same time, it happens too frequently.

[Dalziel8]

22 minutes ago, CALDERON said:

To be fair to Murray, the only one of those number 10s he signed was Easton.  And he has a decent amount of defensive cover tbh.  3 defenders were out injured today, and an additional one during the game.  There's only so much additional cover you can sign.

The major concern today is the number of injuries happening at the same time, it happens too frequently.

When you’ve got injury prone players in the squad then you need to balance things out on the probability that you’ll be without said players for chunks of the season.

I like Murray but he’s not managed to build on what was a decent squad that he inherited. He’s taken us backwards and the fact he’s friendly and straight talking in interviews can’t paper over the cracks. 
 

The squad was crying out for an experienced centre half and a proper number 9 and he’s failed to sign either. He definitely deserves another go next season but he really needs to get it right quickly. 

Edited April 8, 2023 by Dalziel8

[CALDERON]

13 minutes ago, Dalziel8 said:

When you’ve got injury prone players in the squad then you need to balance things out on the probability that you’ll be without said players for chunks of the season.

I like Murray but he’s not managed to build on what was a decent squad that he inherited. He’s taken us backwards and the fact he’s friendly and straight talking in interviews can’t paper over the cracks. 
 

The squad was crying out for an experienced centre half and a proper number 9 and he’s failed to sign either. He definitely deserves another go next season but he really needs to get it right quickly. 

To be fair, was the budget really there to build on the squad? If the previous management team waste a shitload of cash, and the next seasons budget suffers, is it that unreasonable for things to go backwards? Think your overstating the quality of what the manager inherited.  The team that finished last season were awful - Mcglynn would have been sacked were it not for that cup win.

This season has been frustrating,  but in no way unexpected - its ended up almost exactly as it should have given the circumstances. Nowhere near relegation and nowhere near promotion.  When you look at how Mcglynn left things, that's a reasonable starting point.  

There are certainly things that he simply has to address tactically, but recruit will largely come down to what he's given to work with.  

Most teams in Scotland are crying out for a proper number 9, and failure to recruit that hasn't even been limited to Murray in the recent Raith Rovers past.

There absolutely needs to be more balance in the squad.  Set pieces need monumental improvement, both attacking and defending, and we have to unload some of these attacking midfielders and find something close to a centre forward. 

The biggest thing for me that needs addressed is the game management and mentality when going behind in games.  It's been fucking horrendous this season, and is one of the things the manager will be under pressure to solve.

Certainly need a better league cup showing and a better start to the league, that work starts now.

 

Edited April 8, 2023 by CALDERON

[Ro Sham Bo]

Yeah, I don't think Murray has taken us backwards. That's unfair. He's possibly not taken us forward much either, but given the fact he came in relatively late and has had some hellish injury problems to put up with, I think he's done a passable job overall.

Safe from relegation with half a dozen matches left, a Scottish Cup quarter final and a challenge cup final is pretty decent. 

We just need him to learn to give up on the sort of nonsense we saw on Tuesday night... 

 

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

3 hours ago, pub car king said:

We look fucked squad wise. Might have to recall the youngsters on loan to cover if they are eligible. 

IM stated after the game that he can't recall the players.

[Raith Against The Machine]

40 minutes ago, CALDERON said:

To be fair to Murray, the only one of those number 10s he signed was Easton.  And he has a decent amount of defensive cover tbh.  3 defenders were out injured today, and an additional one during the game.  There's only so much additional cover you can sign.

The major concern today is the number of injuries happening at the same time, it happens too frequently.

I agree with both the content and the sentiment of what you're saying this evening, but Murray did also sign Connor McBride, who's probably the most egregious 'waste' we've had this season. Connell (probably) and Frederiksen (definitely) were worse players, but we were crying out for a number 9 when he signed both, and they were gambles worth taking. There was nothing on McBride's CV to suggest he'd be an upgrade on our existing options, and he's vying for a place in the one area of the park where we're actually quite well off. Easier said than done, of course, but I fancy we'd be at least a point or two better off if Murray had taken those wages and bolstered pretty much any other area of the park (other than goalkeeper). 

Ultimately, though, a minor amendment in the grand scheme of things. As you say, he was dealt a bad hand from a squad building perspective. It's a squad of solid Championship players, by and large, but the feeling certainly is that as a whole we're paying over the odds for it. Add to that the sudden losses of Berra and O'Riordan, and Murray's done well to keep things broadly moving in the right direction. 

Ian Murray has made some decisions I don't personally agree with, and some objectively wrong decisions, both in games and on a more macro level this season, but he's done more than enough to earn another season at the helm. Any manager is going to bring their own baggage, and I'm not seeing anything egregious with Murray that can't be overcome by moving another year away from the decisions of others, learning from past mistakes, and (hopefully) benefiting from better luck. 

[Broken Algorithms]

Every forward we tried hasn't worked out with the exception, arguably of Vaughan. Signings like Big John looked exciting on paper but it just never came to fruition.

[Dalziel8]

8 minutes ago, Ro Sham Bo said:

Yeah, I don't think Murray has taken us backwards. That's unfair. He's possibly not taken us forward much either, but given the fact he came in relatively late and has had some hellish injury problems to put up with, I think he's done a passable job overall.

Safe from relegation with half a dozen matches left, a Scottish Cup quarter final and a challenge cup final is pretty decent. 

We just need him to learn to give up on the sort of nonsense we saw on Tuesday night... 

 

I base the ‘backwards’ comment on us finishing 5th and winning the challenge cup last season and finishing 3rd and reaching the playoff semi the season before. Mcgylnn had hellish injury problems to deal with too. It’s nothing new for us.

It’s certainly not a ‘Murray out’ rant but  a 7th placed finish (if that’s where we end up) is pretty disappointing.

[CALDERON]

2 minutes ago, Raith Against The Machine said:

I agree with both the content and the sentiment of what you're saying this evening, but Murray did also sign Connor McBride, who's probably the most egregious 'waste' we've had this season. Connell (probably) and Frederiksen (definitely) were worse players, but we were crying out for a number 9 when he signed both, and they were gambles worth taking. There was nothing on McBride's CV to suggest he'd be an upgrade on our existing options, and he's vying for a place in the one area of the park where we're actually quite well off. Easier said than done, of course, but I fancy we'd be at least a point or two better off if Murray had taken those wages and bolstered pretty much any other area of the park (other than goalkeeper). 

Ultimately, though, a minor amendment in the grand scheme of things. As you say, he was dealt a bad hand from a squad building perspective. It's a squad of solid Championship players, by and large, but the feeling certainly is that as a whole we're paying over the odds for it. Add to that the sudden losses of Berra and O'Riordan, and Murray's done well to keep things broadly moving in the right direction. 

Ian Murray has made some decisions I don't personally agree with, and some objectively wrong decisions, both in games and on a more macro level this season, but he's done more than enough to earn another season at the helm. Any manager is going to bring their own baggage, and I'm not seeing anything egregious with Murray that can't be overcome by moving another year away from the decisions of others, learning from past mistakes, and (hopefully) benefiting from better luck. 

I completely forgot Connor Mcbride existed, and frequently have this season.

[Raith Against The Machine]

2 minutes ago, CALDERON said:

I completely forgot Connor Mcbride existed, and frequently have this season.

I don't think you're alone in that, to be fair.

It's an upgrade on the reports we got when he signed, at least, because it sounded like he was going to be actively terrible, but instead he's just been a bit... nothing. Doesn't stand out for any reason, good or bad. You've got to think he'll be playing part-time football next season. 

[Raith69]

Really feel for Murray to be honest but he needs to show what he has now in terms of improvement on this squad by way of identifying better quality of players for next season. To be fair to him he has been hampered this season by plenty of things which have been well discussed on here no less than the injuries but suppose to be fair to some extent so has a few clubs in this league at some point. Also feel we need to carry a bigger squad so as to cover for injuries but one of the main things I want us to do is assemble a squad that is more adapted to playing in different formations as really 4-2-3-1 doesn't work week in week out teams suss us out quickly. So work starts now for next season as it is going to be a difficult one.

[Scary Bear]

1 hour ago, keyser_soze said:

anything over 3 would be a bonus 

I was thinking Partick Thistle will have minds on the play offs by the time we play them. Maybe the same with Ayr and Morton.

[raith1974]

1 hour ago, CALDERON said:

To be fair to Murray, the only one of those number 10s he signed was Easton.  And he has a decent amount of defensive cover tbh.  3 defenders were out injured today, and an additional one during the game.  There's only so much additional cover you can sign.

The major concern today is the number of injuries happening at the same time, it happens too frequently.

Sorry I disagree. Lang over his career has been shown to have spells out with injury, our back up centre half is a kid, left back or midfielder. Again our cover for right back is the same kid. There is limited defensive cover unless you are happy with playing players out of position. Our downfall this season has been injuries and a lack of a striker. 

[stevoraith]

3 hours ago, Dalziel8 said:

I base the ‘backwards’ comment on us finishing 5th and winning the challenge cup last season and finishing 3rd and reaching the playoff semi the season before. Mcgylnn had hellish injury problems to deal with too. It’s nothing new for us.

It’s certainly not a ‘Murray out’ rant but  a 7th placed finish (if that’s where we end up) is pretty disappointing.

While what you’re saying is obviously factually correct, I think it warrants a bit more scrutiny. 
 

If you split each season into halves, we had a fantastic first half to last season. But then McGlynn took us a huge step backwards in the second half of the season. 
 

Compared to the absolute shit-show that was the second half of last season there’s no way that Murray has taken us backwards. 
 

With what is by all accounts a vastly reduced budget, Murray has steadied the ship and got us back to being bang average which is better than we were at the start of 2022. 

[renton]

3 hours ago, Dalziel8 said:

I base the ‘backwards’ comment on us finishing 5th and winning the challenge cup last season and finishing 3rd and reaching the playoff semi the season before. Mcgylnn had hellish injury problems to deal with too. It’s nothing new for us.

It’s certainly not a ‘Murray out’ rant but  a 7th placed finish (if that’s where we end up) is pretty disappointing.

It's about where I expected us to finish. I don't think we had a decent squad last season. We got a but of shock value early doors, but really- the 2nd half of last season was closer to the typical level that squad would put in than the first. 

Imagine if Zanatta had not given his career best performance over 3 months, there?

Absolutely the case that the season before that, we had a decent squad. Armstrong went on to Killie, Hendry down south. Bene and Davo hadn't hit their limit yet. 

Yer through out all that, we still haven't found a decent No 9 and Murray hadnt had the luxury of 3 fit and able CBs.

McGlynn, or his training, is the source of our injury woes. Matthews spent the last portion of last season playing through the pain and taking injections to play, for example. 

Also, f**k the challenge cup. McGlynn got lucky that Poplatnik was in the middle of his little purple streak. 

Through out the last two years we've been reliant on one or two guys stepping up and giving us 5 good games, and enough guys have given us those 5 games to see us through by and large.

That needs to change, but by and large it's not Murray's fault he's been forced into playing a season with guys who can only play a 4-2-3-1 and then only with an elusive type of striker. I don't think that would even be his first choice of shape but he had enough pragmatism to let the guys play in the most natural shape. It's on McGlynn that he signed guys on 3 year deals that would only fit a given shape (and then spent half that time unfit) 

[TxRover]

7 hours ago, RRFC_Liam said:

I’d keep Lang but have someone experienced next to him 

I think Nolan would be an excellent re-signing. He’s basically only got a year of Senior play and is looking better all the time. It would be a terrible mistake to let him go, especially as he’s remained healthy pretty much the entire season.

[bobbykdy]

1 hour ago, stevoraith said:

While what you’re saying is obviously factually correct, I think it warrants a bit more scrutiny. 
 

If you split each season into halves, we had a fantastic first half to last season. But then McGlynn took us a huge step backwards in the second half of the season. 
 

Compared to the absolute shit-show that was the second half of last season there’s no way that Murray has taken us backwards. 
 

With what is by all accounts a vastly reduced budget, Murray has steadied the ship and got us back to being bang average which is better than we were at the start of 2022. 

Start of 2022 we were top of the league or thereabouts, before the Goodwillie stuff hit the fan.

[Dalziel8]

6 hours ago, renton said:

It's about where I expected us to finish. I don't think we had a decent squad last season. We got a but of shock value early doors, but really- the 2nd half of last season was closer to the typical level that squad would put in than the first. 

Imagine if Zanatta had not given his career best performance over 3 months, there?

Absolutely the case that the season before that, we had a decent squad. Armstrong went on to Killie, Hendry down south. Bene and Davo hadn't hit their limit yet. 

Yer through out all that, we still haven't found a decent No 9 and Murray hadnt had the luxury of 3 fit and able CBs.

McGlynn, or his training, is the source of our injury woes. Matthews spent the last portion of last season playing through the pain and taking injections to play, for example. 

Also, f**k the challenge cup. McGlynn got lucky that Poplatnik was in the middle of his little purple streak. 

Through out the last two years we've been reliant on one or two guys stepping up and giving us 5 good games, and enough guys have given us those 5 games to see us through by and large.

That needs to change, but by and large it's not Murray's fault he's been forced into playing a season with guys who can only play a 4-2-3-1 and then only with an elusive type of striker. I don't think that would even be his first choice of shape but he had enough pragmatism to let the guys play in the most natural shape. It's on McGlynn that he signed guys on 3 year deals that would only fit a given shape (and then spent half that time unfit) 

That’s the rant of a bitter, jilted ex. I take it you didn’t like Mcglynn?

[renton]

5 hours ago, bobbykdy said:

Start of 2022 we were top of the league or thereabouts, before the Goodwillie stuff hit the fan.

We peaked around early December, beating Killie, even at that the performance levels were already tailing off. The game down at Ayr in Boxing day was an eye bleedingly bad performance.  

[renton]

34 minutes ago, Dalziel8 said:

That’s the rant of a bitter, jilted ex. I take it you didn’t like Mcglynn?

I liked McGlynn fine, but he had his limitations like all coaches, his approach to injuries being one of them, and I don't see anything ranting about pointing out that in his second spell there he chose a much more aesthetically pleasing approach to tactics but to the exclusion of any type of plan B. The challenge cup (which, let's face it is not a reliable indicator of progress) shouldn't have been allowed to obscure our ridiculously poor form that he'd been unable to arrest.