Dan Steele Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 2 minutes ago, The Master said: Giving that description to ChatGPT and it providing the name and appropriate references is basically what research is - provided you then go off and read and understand those references before using them. Is the time involved, comprehension, understanding, assimilating knowledge and advancing a cogent, well-structured argument not some of the reasons why 'students' resort to the likes of chatgp and similar in the first place? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottsdad Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 17 minutes ago, mathematics said: Word of advice for students: avoiding your institution’s malpractice panel isn’t just rewording your essay enough times to get your turnititin score down. A human will mark it, normally an intelligent human, and many of these intelligent humans spot cheating a mile away. Just do the work. I was in a hearing this morning, and the student's defence was "I didn't paraphrase enough". Er, no. That wasn't the issue at all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottsdad Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 2 hours ago, BTFD said: Unfortunately it also appears to detect a lot of original content. The internet's full of examples of documents such as the American Constitution being flagged as AI generated. I also find it bizarre how many people would be happy to learn nothing but leave with a diploma, but it's always been true. You only have to look at the fraudsters who bought doctorates from fake universities and rocked up to job somehow expecting to pass muster, and in some cases manage to get away with it for a worrying amount of time. I guess a lot of these folk don't think beyond the near future, as it's hardly a long-term strategy. The Turnitin tool designed to catch this gets too many false positives. We don't use it. Thankfully things like Chat GPT are so full of bugs that they can be spotted. References in particular are a weakness there. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathematics Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 8 minutes ago, scottsdad said: I was in a hearing this morning, and the student's defence was "I didn't paraphrase enough". Er, no. That wasn't the issue at all. And you know that answers like these will resort to Heid Honchos saying that academics don’t teach students what plagiarism is. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathematics Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 8 minutes ago, scottsdad said: References in particular are a weakness there. For now… 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnydun Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 At least if I leave Uni in 4 years time with a bare pass mark, folk will know I did it myself! Haha. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 Sounds like you're going to have to find a different way to assess students. Coursework is shite anyway, exams are the boys. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melanius Mullarkey Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 The sudden drop in marks this year as folk returned to in person exams seemed to be a big surprise to some folk round my bit. Agree though. Exams are indeed, the fucking bois. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 3 hours ago, mathematics said: And you know that answers like these will resort to Heid Honchos saying that academics don’t teach students what plagiarism is. We've been smashed over the head about plagiarism for the past two years. Even had to write a short paper about what plagiarism is and why it's bad. Despite this, one student tried to coast through first year by copying other people's work and virtually the whole class got through one difficult (as in, we were taught nothing and there was virtually no course material) class by copying the work of one of the previous year's students. AFAIK nobody got their collar felt over it but, then again, I don't think it's been graded yet... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottsdad Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 I have a cohort of pisspoor students. I mean, awful. I'm sending them into an exam hall with pen and paper. It'll be carnage. But I am sick to death of assessing how good someone is at googling an answer. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florentine_Pogen Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 13 minutes ago, scottsdad said: I have a cohort of pisspoor students. I mean, awful. I'm sending them into an exam hall with pen and paper. It'll be carnage. But I am sick to death of assessing how good someone is at googling an answer. I'm sure we're all rooting for you. Get these cheating shitbags tae fvck. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathematics Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 5 hours ago, coprolite said: Sounds like you're going to have to find a different way to assess students. Coursework is shite anyway, exams are the boys. Some institutions have clowns in charge who believe that examinations are a thing of the past. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottsdad Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 13 hours ago, mathematics said: Some institutions have clowns in charge who believe that examinations are a thing of the past. This is 100% true here. We have gone back to exams but for some reason we're not calling them exams but "Invigilated, in-person assessments". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10menwent2mow Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 I found essay writing fairly rewarding in both my attempts at uni, exams I did fairly well in but both my dissertations were utterly useless. Mainly because my final degree result was pretty much decided before I wrote them. Didn't exactly provide the motivation required to provide a properly researched and in depth dissertation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathematics Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 2 hours ago, scottsdad said: This is 100% true here. We have gone back to exams but for some reason we're not calling them exams but "Invigilated, in-person assessments". Seriously, where do universities find these imbeciles? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florentine_Pogen Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 3 hours ago, scottsdad said: This is 100% true here. We have gone back to exams but for some reason we're not calling them exams but "Invigilated, in-person assessments". Business Bullshit thread for this pish......................... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101 Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 1 hour ago, mathematics said: Seriously, where do universities find these imbeciles? It's what happens when you focus on word count. Or This is the long term outcome of academia and their obsession with written work meeting a high threshold of words whilst at the same time ignoring the need for brevity and making points in a succinct manner where appropriate. A good example of this is calling the process of assessment in a hall with others under certain conditions "exams". Spoiler Yes some word counts are there for good reason but that wouldn't have the same comedic effect. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 21 hours ago, mathematics said: Some institutions have clowns in charge who believe that examinations are a thing of the past. Indeed. The clear direction of travel is for school exams to be reduced if not eradicated. Schools will be asked to assess pupils' ability based on work that can benefit hugely from the input of middle class educated parents, or from that of privately hired tutors. Meanwhile, the pressure to close an attainment gap based on socio-economic circumstances will be cranked up further. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUcal Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 (edited) On 16/08/2023 at 15:44, scottsdad said: I have a cohort of pisspoor students. I mean, awful. I'm sending them into an exam hall with pen and paper. It'll be carnage. But I am sick to death of assessing how good someone is at googling an answer. I was a big fan of having the actual exams basically for the exact reason you've given above - my year had some amount of lazy b*****ds that regularly nicked work off of others or would plagiarise to a silly level and somehow scraped by unnoticed. When it came to an actual exam it was a pure joy seeing them struggle before and after with the stress of being so unprepared. That is very petty, I know. But I enjoyed it. Then COVID fucked everything in 4th year - exams online at home etc. Weird experience that. Edited August 17, 2023 by AuAl 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathematics Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Monkey Tennis said: assess pupils' ability based on work that can benefit hugely from the input of middle class educated parents, or from that of privately hired tutors I don’t disagree. However, I’ve had it argued to me (working class, first and only family member with an honours degree) by an old posh c**t that exams do they exact same. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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