Hank von Hell Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 14 minutes ago, Shodwall cat said: You what? Are you clueless. Why would i bother including houstons record pre that season when im simply highlighting the fact that hartley improved the situation that season after houston left. No one would argue that houston was a far better manager than hartley. Can you no look into the context of the post before spouting your pish please. Fecks sake. Bloody hell , take a chill pill dude - check your BP and put that handbag away. I only asked a couple of questions or clueless pish spouting in your book. I will look into the context of the post when you stop taking Houston's record out of context. #context 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falkirk_Bairn_1983 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 56 minutes ago, AL-FFC said: Can we just accept the following: Houston done a good job for the time he was in however towards the end of his tenure things were going a bit stale and the replacements in quality for Vaulks, Leahy etc were sub standard/not good enough. Hartley understandably felt there was something going on when taking over from Houstie and had a clear out what was brought in were good enough to keep us in the league and pull clear of Dumbarton, unfortunately between Hartleys man management skills being sh*t and our English based Scout (Mitch) the 2 of them made a horses arse of player recruitment. McKinnons recruitment at Morton seemed to have them clicking prior to him leaving and provided he is backed by the board then i reckon he will do alright for starters at least he will have seen the players he recruited unlike Hartley. Long story short we cant do any worse and the only way is up providing the rest of the team get their collective fingers out their arses. Oh and we recruited a team that look like football players but are clearly not. Couldn't have put it better myself! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Formation tombola should be fun. Triple Triple rollover next week 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fae_the_'briggs Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 37 minutes ago, Shodwall cat said: Kerr was pish when he left. Great servant but past it. I will eat my hat if hes in the top flight next sesason. Kerr possibly won't be playing in the top flight next season, even if Ayr go up, but he seems to be a key player for the team currently leading the division, so saying he is past it to play for a team struggling at the bottom end doesn't seem to add up. His form may have been poor in the end for you but he seems to be doing ok now. Of course he probably didn't fit into Hartley's "vision" of the way forward for the Sleeping Giants. 11 hours ago, Falkirk_Bairn_1983 said: Yes. What's your point? Simple really, Hartley didn't want to sign the usual "jobber" level of player, backed by the fans, his quality level of recruitment has failed big time and he was binned, yet you think Ray should go down the same route because players of Morton (or presumably QoS or Dunfermline, etc,) standard aren't good enough to improve on the dross that Hartley signed. You would be better to get some jobbers and journeymen in, players who know what this level is about, to try and stop the rot, that should be Ray's first priority. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank von Hell Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 1 hour ago, AL-FFC said: Can we just accept the following: Houston done a good job for the time he was in however towards the end of his tenure things were going a bit stale and the replacements in quality for Vaulks, Leahy etc were sub standard/not good enough. Hartley understandably felt there was something going on when taking over from Houstie and had a clear out what was brought in were good enough to keep us in the league and pull clear of Dumbarton, unfortunately between Hartleys man management skills being sh*t and our English based Scout (Mitch) the 2 of them made a horses arse of player recruitment. McKinnons recruitment at Morton seemed to have them clicking prior to him leaving and provided he is backed by the board then i reckon he will do alright for starters at least he will have seen the players he recruited unlike Hartley. Long story short we cant do any worse and the only way is up providing the rest of the team get their collective fingers out their arses. Oh and we recruited a team that look like football players but are clearly not. No It's unacceptable 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Can we just accept the following: Houston done a good job for the time he was in however towards the end of his tenure things were going a bit stale and the replacements in quality for Vaulks, Leahy etc were sub standard/not good enough. Hartley understandably felt there was something going on when taking over from Houstie and had a clear out what was brought in were good enough to keep us in the league and pull clear of Dumbarton, unfortunately between Hartleys man management skills being sh*t and our English based Scout (Mitch) the 2 of them made a horses arse of player recruitment. McKinnons recruitment at Morton seemed to have them clicking prior to him leaving and provided he is backed by the board then i reckon he will do alright for starters at least he will have seen the players he recruited unlike Hartley. Long story short we cant do any worse and the only way is up providing the rest of the team get their collective fingers out their arses. Oh and we recruited a team that look like football players but are clearly not.The only way is down unless players come in prior to Christmas 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL-FFC Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, Fae_the_'briggs said: Simple really, Hartley didn't want to sign the usual "jobber" level of player, backed by the fans, his quality level of recruitment has failed big time and he was binned, yet you think Ray should go down the same route because players of Morton (or presumably QoS or Dunfermline, etc,) standard aren't good enough to improve on the dross that Hartley signed. You would be better to get some jobbers and journeymen in, players who know what this level is about, to try and stop the rot, that should be Ray's first priority. Its not the trying the usual level of jobber/Journeyman (are you still bitter about Houstie saying that) that anyone is bothered about the fact that most of the teams are still in this league is because the usual jobber is doing the circuit of championship level team. Hows that definition of insanity go again doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. The problem with Hartleys model was he signed players he hadnt even seen and relied on a scout. McKinnon has done not too bad on most of the clubs where he was punching above his weight Raith for starts, Dundee Utd pressure was on as they wanted to bounce straight back up signed players en mass and tbh he did get them to a play off position so you can argue he is still a success with his own team, they just let him down at the final hurdle. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falkirk_Bairn_1983 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Fae_the_'briggs said: Simple really, Hartley didn't want to sign the usual "jobber" level of player, backed by the fans, his quality level of recruitment has failed big time and he was binned, yet you think Ray should go down the same route because players of Morton (or presumably QoS or Dunfermline, etc,) standard aren't good enough to improve on the dross that Hartley signed. You would be better to get some jobbers and journeymen in, players who know what this level is about, to try and stop the rot, that should be Ray's first priority. Where did I say McKinnon should go down the same route as Hartley? I said we should be looking at better players than what Morton currently have. We had Tumilty last season and McHugh was with us for a few season, both not good enough. Edited October 12, 2018 by Falkirk_Bairn_1983 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL-FFC Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 7 minutes ago, Back Post Misses said: The only way is down unless players come in prior to Christmas Could start the academy back up and put the current first team in it they might learn how to play Football. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fae_the_'briggs Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, Falkirk_Bairn_1983 said: Where did I say McKinnon should go down the same route as Hartley? I said we should be looking at better players than what Morton currently have. We had Tumilty last season and McHugh was with us for a few season, both not good enough. Maybe not good enough to get you promoted or challenging for a top four position but the first priority should be stopping the rot and getting in players who will fight to do that. I'm not actually saying that the players you mention should necessarily be considered but there is no need to go looking too far for better players to improve on what Hartley brought in. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falkirk_Bairn_1983 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Fae_the_'briggs said: Maybe not good enough to get you promoted or challenging for a top four position but the first priority should be stopping the rot and getting in players who will fight to do that. I'm not actually saying that the players you mention should necessarily be considered but there is no need to go looking too far for better players to improve on what Hartley brought in. Trust me it won't be hard bringing in players of better quality. I do know what your saying and stopping the rot is the priority but that doesn't mean we need to sign mid table championship players. We have already added Buaben who will be quality at this level and we have been linked with Paul Caddis who has played at Championship level in England for a number of seasons. Just those 2 will/would make a massive difference to our starting 11. Edited October 12, 2018 by Falkirk_Bairn_1983 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wullie robb Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 22 minutes ago, Falkirk_Bairn_1983 said: Trust me it won't be hard bringing in players of better quality. I do know what your saying and stopping the rot is the priority but that doesn't mean we need to sign mid table championship players. We have already added Buaben who will be quality at this level and we have been linked with Paul Caddis who has played at Championship level in England for a number of seasons. Just those 2 will/would make a massive difference to our starting 11. Bairn we have absolutely no idea what Buaben will be like, he hasn't played for a long time and I remember when Loy come back all the knicker wetting. I'd rather wait to see him playing before saying what sort of difference he'll make. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL-FFC Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 1 minute ago, wullie robb said: Bairn we have absolutely no idea what Buaben will be like, he hasn't played for a long time and I remember when Loy come back all the knicker wetting. I'd rather wait to see him playing before saying what sort of difference he'll make. Loy's situation was different it wasn't his physical fitness that was the issue it was his mental health plus the fact he had a manager that didn't want him there which definitely wasn't going to help his mental health any. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falkirk_Bairn_1983 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, wullie robb said: Bairn we have absolutely no idea what Buaben will be like, he hasn't played for a long time and I remember when Loy come back all the knicker wetting. I'd rather wait to see him playing before saying what sort of difference he'll make. I don't blame you for being cautious about any signing we make just now. What we do know is Buaben has played at a higher level and was part of the Hearts team that scooshed this league. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wullie robb Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 1 minute ago, AL-FFC said: Loy's situation was different it wasn't his physical fitness that was the issue it was his mental health plus the fact he had a manager that didn't want him there which definitely wasn't going to help his mental health any. I agree with that 100% it still doesn't change the fact I will judge player's when I see them playing, not on past history that stands for nothing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 If we managed to get Caddis, then his presence plus that of Bauben and McGhee will go some way to giving us a chance of hanging on to the coat tails of 9th place. The usual caveats would apply to Bauben and Caddis in that what we get is something close to what they were. However it’s done, we need to get Fasan, Harrison, Dallison, Paton, Lewis and Haber out of the side. Personally, I want Muirhead gone too, but admit he has some passion and pride about him, so he will have to stay for a while. In Mitchell, Bauben, Caddis (please God) McGhee we have four of the six needed. Robson and perhaps Russell gives us options too. Then there’s the attack to consider. We have the ever erratic Petra, and the excellent Rudden. We need something more, or at least a different way to involve Haber if nothing else is available. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaggerG Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Was speaking to a community coach yesterday who says that Buaben was very poor at Hearts latterly. That presumably would have been an opinion based on what Hearts coaches had told him as he wouldn't have watched him on a regular basis. There's no doubt that Buaben was a very good player at his peak and would be a stand out at this level if he could reproduce that form. Time will tell. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shodwall cat Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 2 hours ago, Hank von Hell said: Bloody hell , take a chill pill dude - check your BP and put that handbag away. I only asked a couple of questions or clueless pish spouting in your book. I will look into the context of the post when you stop taking Houston's record out of context. #context We were asked the question whether Hartley had improved the situation that season after he took over both in league position and points. The only factual way of doing that is by comparing Hartleys points per game record with that of Houstons that season . Why would I want to bring up Houston's previous record when we're only talking about the one season?????? Houstons complete record at Falkirk had feck all to do with the debate so I don't know why your bringing that up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shodwall cat Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Fae_the_'briggs said: Kerr possibly won't be playing in the top flight next season, even if Ayr go up, but he seems to be a key player for the team currently leading the division, so saying he is past it to play for a team struggling at the bottom end doesn't seem to add up. His form may have been poor in the end for you but he seems to be doing ok now. Of course he probably didn't fit into Hartley's "vision" of the way forward for the Sleeping Giants. Simple really, Hartley didn't want to sign the usual "jobber" level of player, backed by the fans, his quality level of recruitment has failed big time and he was binned, yet you think Ray should go down the same route because players of Morton (or presumably QoS or Dunfermline, etc,) standard aren't good enough to improve on the dross that Hartley signed. You would be better to get some jobbers and journeymen in, players who know what this level is about, to try and stop the rot, that should be Ray's first priority. We're a handful of games into the season for fecks sake. Lets see where Ayr and Kerr are come May and then judge whose right or wrong on this. If he and Ayr are still putting out championship winning performances then i will admit i was very much wrong. Nothing wrong with bringing in quality from the championship but its got to be quality. I frankly couldn't have given a feck where we sign players from to be really honest but they should've been good enough to replace the mediocrity we had. Livi have managed to win the league by having a recruitment system far better than my team or yours and including a load of players that no one wanted or were playing at levels looked down upon like the juniors. Managers live or die by their recruitment and ours has been awful for seasons wherever we've been gettimng the players from. Edited October 12, 2018 by Shodwall cat 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shodwall cat Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 1 hour ago, wullie robb said: Bairn we have absolutely no idea what Buaben will be like, he hasn't played for a long time and I remember when Loy come back all the knicker wetting. I'd rather wait to see him playing before saying what sort of difference he'll make. He played 22 games last season. The way you're talking is as if hes been out the game for a couple of years. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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