PedroMoutinho Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 3 hours ago, SuperTuesday said: So we stretched it last year, it would be reasonable to suggest we have or will follow the same pattern this year. If that leaves us short for these two or three extra pieces of quality as a fan owned club, what do you advocate? In my view, if the current model is not enabling us to provide the manager with a competitive championship budget, it will have to change. There is no reason why a club with almost 4000 season ticket holders in addition to 1000 fans paying an average of £15 extra a month should not be able to compete with the teams in the league this season. Clearly we shouldn’t be handing the club over to Mike Ashley, but I think it is increasingly clear that external investment will be needed and compromises may be required. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blame Me Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 9 minutes ago, PedroMoutinho said: ... Dunfermline seem to be down quite a bit this season after being mediocre last year. Is there evidence that Dunfermline budgeted for higher than 6th? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperTuesday Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 11 minutes ago, PedroMoutinho said: Agreed, but there is also a financial risk in having a relatively poor season. There is quite a big disparity in prize money between say 4th and 8th. Equally, a team finishing 8th (not that I think that will be us) is not going to be winning many games so I suspect PATG and hospitality income would be down significantly compared to budget. I also can’t see 3800+ STs being sold next year in that scenario. Dunfermline seem to be down quite a bit this season after being mediocre last year. If there was ever a poster doing I told you posts, you keep stating the obvious pitfalls/wants but don't commit yourself on what we should do then? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperTuesday Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 3 minutes ago, PedroMoutinho said: In my view, if the current model is not enabling us to provide the manager with a competitive championship budget, it will have to change. There is no reason why a club with almost 4000 season ticket holders in addition to 1000 fans paying an average of £15 extra a month should not be able to compete with the teams in the league this season. Clearly we shouldn’t be handing the club over to Mike Ashley, but I think it is increasingly clear that external investment will be needed and compromises may be required. So we stop being fans led then, that's your belief, ok. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blame Me Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 2 minutes ago, PedroMoutinho said: In my view, if the current model is not enabling us to provide the manager with a competitive championship budget, it will have to change. There is no reason why a club with almost 4000 season ticket holders in addition to 1000 fans paying an average of £15 extra a month should not be able to compete with the teams in the league this season. Clearly we shouldn’t be handing the club over to Mike Ashley, but I think it is increasingly clear that external investment will be needed and compromises may be required. This is not a serious post in July 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reggie Perrin Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 4 hours ago, AJ1981 said: no getting away from how bad that was but he said it was a 2 year project and was good to his word, he knew where the weaknesses were in the team and made changes, we all have to accept the squad he inherited was rock bottom and poor, what he's done is transformational and anybody dwelling on 180 mins over 2 years of progress is likely to be a glass half full type of guy or gal. Or merely pointing out that the original post was not quite correct. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Tattiescone Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 Think we should wait until the Euros are over and see who's available then 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyBlueArmy1876 Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 Having Spencer and Morrison available for Saturday is a huge boost On the other hand a back 4 of Mackie - Henderson - Adams - Yeats will certainly be interesting 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BPM Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 1 hour ago, PedroMoutinho said: Agreed, but there is also a financial risk in having a relatively poor season. There is quite a big disparity in prize money between say 4th and 8th. Equally, a team finishing 8th (not that I think that will be us) is not going to be winning many games so I suspect PATG and hospitality income would be down significantly compared to budget. I also can’t see 3800+ STs being sold next year in that scenario. Dunfermline seem to be down quite a bit this season after being mediocre last year. PATG (home) will be down next season as the ST sales are through the roof. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LatapyBairn. Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 (edited) 2 hours ago, PedroMoutinho said: In my view, if the current model is not enabling us to provide the manager with a competitive championship budget, it will have to change. There is no reason why a club with almost 4000 season ticket holders in addition to 1000 fans paying an average of £15 extra a month should not be able to compete with the teams in the league this season. Clearly we shouldn’t be handing the club over to Mike Ashley, but I think it is increasingly clear that external investment will be needed and compromises may be required. You don’t think our playing budget is competitive? Do you know something the rest of us don’t as the information coming from the club and the signings / re-signings made would suggest otherwise. We were told we had a middling playing budget for this season comparative to the clubs around us which is fair enough considering where we have come from, next season that will inevitably increase again after the benefit of a season in the championship (a benefit all of our competitors have had bar Hamilton) with the increased prize and gate money that then brings. Ripping up our fan ownership model and selling of our club would be absolutely bonkers IMO, no owner is going to continually pump money into the club to the level the FSS is doing. The only sensible option we have at the moment for external investment is for the “3rd leg of the stool” in our current model to invest some time or money also and that isn’t really happening which would suggest it may be time to look for a new “3rd leg” as I am told the club is indeed actively trying to do. Look at the mess we were in verses where we are now down to the efforts of the fans now stewarding the club, that’s been a hard road but the club has been turned around both on and off the park relatively quickly and the fans are directly responsible for that turnaround! Handing the club over to an unknown at this juncture actually gives me the absolute fear! Edited July 11 by LatapyBairn. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BPM Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 28 minutes ago, NavyBlueArmy1876 said: Having Spencer and Morrison available for Saturday is a huge boost On the other hand a back 4 of Mackie - Henderson - Adams - Yeats will certainly be interesting My revised team is (now Spencer is available) hogarth/Sneddon Yeats Henderson MacKie Miller Spencer Tait Nesbitt Morrison Maciver Ross if Morrison is not fully fit Alfie in for him 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairney The Dinosaur Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 10 minutes ago, BPM said: My revised team is (now Spencer is available) hogarth/Sneddon Yeats Henderson MacKie Miller Spencer Tait Nesbitt Morrison Maciver Ross if Morrison is not fully fit Alfie in for him No chance we'll get away with 2 keepers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarcastic Bairn Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 13 minutes ago, Bairney The Dinosaur said: No chance we'll get away with 2 keepers. We could if we get the referee from Englands game last night. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartA Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 2 hours ago, PedroMoutinho said: Agreed, but there is also a financial risk in having a relatively poor season. There is quite a big disparity in prize money between say 4th and 8th. Equally, a team finishing 8th (not that I think that will be us) is not going to be winning many games so I suspect PATG and hospitality income would be down significantly compared to budget. I also can’t see 3800+ STs being sold next year in that scenario. Dunfermline seem to be down quite a bit this season after being mediocre last year. That’s all true, but it assumes that the club has been very conservative with its forecasting and set an overly frugal budget. I don’t see any evidence that this is true. We can’t spend money we don’t reasonably expect to have or, if we do, the balance of risk changes. I don’t have to make these decisions, thankfully, but if I did, they’d keep me awake at night. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartA Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 1 hour ago, PedroMoutinho said: In my view, if the current model is not enabling us to provide the manager with a competitive championship budget, it will have to change. There is no reason why a club with almost 4000 season ticket holders in addition to 1000 fans paying an average of £15 extra a month should not be able to compete with the teams in the league this season. Clearly we shouldn’t be handing the club over to Mike Ashley, but I think it is increasingly clear that external investment will be needed and compromises may be required. There’s no evidence that we haven’t given the manager the most competitive budget possible. There’s even less evidence that our ownership model is in anyway a problem. We will compete with teams in the league this season, no-one is credibly suggesting otherwise. If the right kind of external investment existed, then I’m sure we’ll attract it. We could of course just hand over the club to someone for half-a-mil, which would allow a few more signings this season, but then totally negate the £1mil the fans have put in over the past couple of years, and end the FSS and other cash forever more, cf Motherwell. Then back to square one next season with fans disengaged. I wish I could agree with your analysis, but then we’d both be wrong. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartA Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 (edited) And before someone says it, fan ownership is only a means to an end, not an end in itself. It’s currently the best model for the club and allows for an external investor. That could change if an investor with enough money and decent intentions came along. The good of the club is the primary consideration. But it would cost the investor well into seven figures if they wanted rid of fan ownership. ETA: We seem to have jumped from “we have a few injuries” to “therefore fan ownership doesn’t work” in a few posts. If we were prepared to drop our knickers at the first hint of difficulty then it would show a huge lack of character. Edited July 11 by StuartA 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reggie Perrin Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 57 minutes ago, StuartA said: And before someone says it, fan ownership is only a means to an end, not an end in itself. It’s currently the best model for the club and allows for an external investor. That could change if an investor with enough money and decent intentions came along. The good of the club is the primary consideration. But it would cost the investor well into seven figures if they wanted rid of fan ownership. ETA: We seem to have jumped from “we have a few injuries” to “therefore fan ownership doesn’t work” in a few posts. If we were prepared to drop our knickers at the first hint of difficulty then it would show a huge lack of character. To be honest most of this chatter is a result of there being little of substance to discuss at the moment hence the many posts dedicated to Tennents Lager the other day (vile rats pish). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartA Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 3 minutes ago, Reggie Perrin said: To be honest most of this chatter is a result of there being little of substance to discuss at the moment hence the many posts dedicated to Tennents Lager the other day (vile rats pish). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ1981 Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 3 hours ago, PedroMoutinho said: In my view, if the current model is not enabling us to provide the manager with a competitive championship budget, it will have to change. There is no reason why a club with almost 4000 season ticket holders in addition to 1000 fans paying an average of £15 extra a month should not be able to compete with the teams in the league this season. Clearly we shouldn’t be handing the club over to Mike Ashley, but I think it is increasingly clear that external investment will be needed and compromises may be required. and how do you know this? where are the facts or evidence? last season? we drew with PT, lost and beat Dundee Utd, beat Ayr and QP. Not a bad record. we can only be sure how the squad shapes up until October or November, maybe longer given the injuries. what i will acknowledge is these injuries has stretched the defence and it would be nice to have better quality cover, by my count the manager has signed 5 players who can play centre half, plus an apprentice. i discovered today that Logan Sinclair had an operation at the end of last season and is just coming back. this amount of injuries in one position is unprecedented in my time supporting the club. Falkirk fans are historically pessimistic and i expect this is another case in point. But lets wait and see what happens before making broad statements based on nothing. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ1981 Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 3 hours ago, Reggie Perrin said: Or merely pointing out that the original post was not quite correct. gratifying to see your self awareness is as finely tuned as ever 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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