The Troll Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 I think your point about deadwood is interesting. Is it possible Wengers too loyal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quitongo's Left Peg Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 I think your point about deadwood is interesting. Is it possible Wengers too loyal? I think so. For example, I like Diaby. I think he's an excellent player who showed at the start of the season he could improve the Arsenal team. He's just far too injury prone. Which is a shame. It's easier for a club with the financial power of a Man City/Chelsea/Man U to keep a player like that in reserve and hope he makes a recovery and gets over his problems. But when you're not achieving much as a club, could his wages be better spent elsewhere? I think they could be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supras Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Christ, are cockteasing bitch and VikingTon really using me as an example? What's the step above Box Office? Blockbuster? I'd really rather not be used in future, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Christ, are cockteasing bitch and VikingTon really using me as an example? What's the step above Box Office? Blockbuster? I'd really rather not be used in future, thanks. I wouldn't fap over it if I were you: when it came to ridiculous posters in this forum you were simply the obvious choice. More like Deuce Bigalow 2 than Box-Office tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forzamorton Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 So far I've decided against commenting on whether it's time for Arsene to go. But for what it's worth, here's my view. I've always been in the camp of 'In Arsene We Trust', believing that with the financial restrictions in place until FFP kicks in and/or the stadium is paid off that Arsene is doing the best job that anyone could. As far as the 'backroom' side of things goes, he's doing very well. Slashing the budgets, saving the club money and helping the club be prepared for the future of football (ie living within your means). It just doesn't seem like his heart is in it anymore on the touchline. During his interview after the Swansea defeat he was rightly exasperated, but lacked the passion he's shown for so long. I honestly believe that there is more money to spend than he is, and it's this stubborn attitude that's holding the club back. No longer are Arsenal using their extensive scouting network to bring through gems like they once did. Whether that's down to a willingness or not is up for debate. My take is that now more and more clubs (with money to throw about) are using the previous Arsenal model of extensive youth scouting, and can offer that little bit more of a lucrative contract to secure the players. As this has gone on over the years, Arsenal have reverted to the tried and tested route of buying average players that aren't good enough to lace the boots of their previous incumbents. An example for me would be Cesc Fabregas, now replaced by Mikel Arteta. MA is a decent level EPL player, but when they panic bought him from Everton, surely a better idea would have been to persue the younger and better player in Fellaini? Especially if they had an idea of Song's imminent departure. Lukas Podolski is a good signing IMO, as is Olivier Giroud. But what Arsenal desperately needed to do in the summer was INVEST in a goalscorer. Llorente is notoriously unsettled in Bilbao and would be an excellent signing and would have represented a more 'out of the box' signing from AW. Mario Mandzukic was available on a free last summer, and certainly would have provided stiffer competition for the Arsenal front line than Chamakh ever would. Bayern also added Shaqiri from Basel and Martinez from Bilbao. All three were 'open' to EPL moves, all three would have made Arsenal a much stronger team. It's been clear that Sagna is too injury prone to be our reliable right-back especially when the other option after Bacary is (the albeit much improved) Carl Jenkinson. Kieron Gibbs is not good enough to control the left of defence for a team of Arsenal's stature, and don't even get me started on the defensive frailties of Andre Santos' game. If you have a defence who has two weak areas in it's fullbacks, you're never going to win everything. A new reserve goalkeeper with experience is needed and (maybe it's just my Scottish bias) but Craig Gordon is available on a free as was Allan McGregor in the summer. Both would strengthen the goalkeeping area. These are all areas that need strengthened or freshened up. This could have been financed by clearing the deadwood from the squad. People like Squillaci (yes, he's still there), Djourou, Arshavin, Chamakh, Fabianski and Gervinho would all have suitors in the everly richer Ligue 1, Russian Premier League or similar. They may have to take a hit in transfer fees but that would be recouped in the saved wages. Arsene seems to be reluctant to let players go for whatever reason. Is it an inherent desire to prove everyone wrong, and hope that they finally show something in an Arsenal jersey? I think it could be. It's taken a lot of heart for me to say this, but I fear it's time for Arsene to relinquish his managerial role at the club and move upstairs. I'm not sure a project man like AW would fancy a new job at this stage in his career, but he should be offered a behind the scenes role to finish his project at Arsenal. The natural conclusion of his project now no longer remains on the touchline. The board should push the boat out and appoint Pep Guardiola or Jurgen Klopp in my opinion. They are the two most natural successors to Wenger's crown and if the good things AW has done at the club are to continue without being wasted, then a manager of that ilk has to be the priority. I think AW will remain in charge this season, and I think we will fail in our attempt to make the Champions League next season. That will make things a lot harder, but I can't see AW being removed from his position during the season. I think you've hit it nail on the head. Great post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainkev Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 So far I've decided against commenting on whether it's time for Arsene to go. But for what it's worth, here's my view. I've always been in the camp of 'In Arsene We Trust', believing that with the financial restrictions in place until FFP kicks in and/or the stadium is paid off that Arsene is doing the best job that anyone could. As far as the 'backroom' side of things goes, he's doing very well. Slashing the budgets, saving the club money and helping the club be prepared for the future of football (ie living within your means). It just doesn't seem like his heart is in it anymore on the touchline. During his interview after the Swansea defeat he was rightly exasperated, but lacked the passion he's shown for so long. I honestly believe that there is more money to spend than he is, and it's this stubborn attitude that's holding the club back. No longer are Arsenal using their extensive scouting network to bring through gems like they once did. Whether that's down to a willingness or not is up for debate. My take is that now more and more clubs (with money to throw about) are using the previous Arsenal model of extensive youth scouting, and can offer that little bit more of a lucrative contract to secure the players. As this has gone on over the years, Arsenal have reverted to the tried and tested route of buying average players that aren't good enough to lace the boots of their previous incumbents. An example for me would be Cesc Fabregas, now replaced by Mikel Arteta. MA is a decent level EPL player, but when they panic bought him from Everton, surely a better idea would have been to persue the younger and better player in Fellaini? Especially if they had an idea of Song's imminent departure. Lukas Podolski is a good signing IMO, as is Olivier Giroud. But what Arsenal desperately needed to do in the summer was INVEST in a goalscorer. Llorente is notoriously unsettled in Bilbao and would be an excellent signing and would have represented a more 'out of the box' signing from AW. Mario Mandzukic was available on a free last summer, and certainly would have provided stiffer competition for the Arsenal front line than Chamakh ever would. Bayern also added Shaqiri from Basel and Martinez from Bilbao. All three were 'open' to EPL moves, all three would have made Arsenal a much stronger team. It's been clear that Sagna is too injury prone to be our reliable right-back especially when the other option after Bacary is (the albeit much improved) Carl Jenkinson. Kieron Gibbs is not good enough to control the left of defence for a team of Arsenal's stature, and don't even get me started on the defensive frailties of Andre Santos' game. If you have a defence who has two weak areas in it's fullbacks, you're never going to win everything. A new reserve goalkeeper with experience is needed and (maybe it's just my Scottish bias) but Craig Gordon is available on a free as was Allan McGregor in the summer. Both would strengthen the goalkeeping area. These are all areas that need strengthened or freshened up. This could have been financed by clearing the deadwood from the squad. People like Squillaci (yes, he's still there), Djourou, Arshavin, Chamakh, Fabianski and Gervinho would all have suitors in the everly richer Ligue 1, Russian Premier League or similar. They may have to take a hit in transfer fees but that would be recouped in the saved wages. Arsene seems to be reluctant to let players go for whatever reason. Is it an inherent desire to prove everyone wrong, and hope that they finally show something in an Arsenal jersey? I think it could be. It's taken a lot of heart for me to say this, but I fear it's time for Arsene to relinquish his managerial role at the club and move upstairs. I'm not sure a project man like AW would fancy a new job at this stage in his career, but he should be offered a behind the scenes role to finish his project at Arsenal. The natural conclusion of his project now no longer remains on the touchline. The board should push the boat out and appoint Pep Guardiola or Jurgen Klopp in my opinion. They are the two most natural successors to Wenger's crown and if the good things AW has done at the club are to continue without being wasted, then a manager of that ilk has to be the priority. I think AW will remain in charge this season, and I think we will fail in our attempt to make the Champions League next season. That will make things a lot harder, but I can't see AW being removed from his position during the season. Sadly I think your probably right. Arsenal were my English team when I was younger. I loved the Arsenal squads of the early 2000's. They were magnificent. So while I'm not massively bothered by English football anymore I stil like to see Arsenal doing well. However with this season and last it's beginning to look like Wenger's taken Arsenal as far as he can and it might be time to move on which I hate to say as I still truely admire Wenger as a manager. But the writings been on the wall for a while. They bottled it against Birmingham in the couple final and that 8-2 game against Manchester United was hard to watch not just for the score, but also because of how defeated and tired Wenger looked even by 2-0. There are still flashes of Wenger's old genius. Podolski and Giroud are great signings for going forward, as is Cazorla. But more and more he's having to defend his tatics or his substitutions which never really happened before. And he's not really is able to answer those critics. It's a sad sign that when you said Pep Guardiola for Arsenal, I instantly dismissed it in my head, thinking that Arsenal aren't big enough players anymore to get him. If they could get him then they'd potentially be a really good fit for one another. But I just don't see it though. I'd love to see Wenger turn this around and get Arsenal back on the road to success soon but with every season it's looking more unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denltfc Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 As an Arsenal fan I have to agree with Quintongo, he sums up my views much more eloquently than I would of done on here. I cant understand how Arshavin or Chamakh have not been shown the door? My only worry is who will replace Arsene and will Arsenal goes outside the usual suspects that will be looking for the gig. I would like someone like Laurent Blanc to get the job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supras Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 I wouldn't fap over it if I were you: when it came to ridiculous posters in this forum you were simply the obvious choice. More like Deuce Bigalow 2 than Box-Office tbh. I'm actually pretty happy people like XBL and VIkingTon think I'm ridiculous. Good god ANYTHING that's not them is automatically a positive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowers Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 It will be the same as last season. Arsenal will be shit but will scrap to 4th place and the media will give wenger credit for saving a season that he fucked up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Christ, are cockteasing bitch and VikingTon really using me as an example? What's the step above Box Office? Blockbuster? I'm actually pretty happy people like XBL and VIkingTon think I'm ridiculous. Good god ANYTHING that's not them is automatically a positive. ^^^ sobbing uncontrollably Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heedthebaa Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 ^^^ sobbing uncontrollably Is that it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quitongo's Left Peg Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Question for Gooners. Is Chamakh the worst striker you've seen in an Arsenal jersey in the last decade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeeperDee Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Arsenal are pish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowers Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 This recent form is liverpool bad. Arsenal need to attempt to remain in contention for 4th until the transfer window then get all the deadwood to f**k out of the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Arsenal will be shit but will scrap to 4th place and the media will give wenger credit for saving a season that he fucked up. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banterman86 Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Agreed. Really? You think Chelsea will still take 3rd? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Really? You think Chelsea will still take 3rd? Yeah. I think it will be Man U, Man C, Chelsea and Arsenal. Chelsea will have to sign a striker or preferably 2 in January and empty Torres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J_Stewart Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Some utterly bizarre opinions in here the last couple of days. Arsenal are a shambles by only being 3rd or 4th in the league the last few years when their wage bill was one of the 5th highest, and their net spend on transfers is lower than any other current Premier League side in the last 5 years? Aye, ok then... Quick questions for those mentioning the "8 years no trophies" thing as well, had they won the Carling Cup a few years ago, would everyone have been satisfied? What if they win it this year, or the FA cup and they come 5th, will that be a successful season because they've won a trophy? I don't think there's any other manager that could have done what Wenger has in the last 7 or 8 years at Arsenal. The fact that he has kept them in the latter stages of the Champions League every year in this period is a quite incredible achievement when considering the resources available to their competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 I don't think there's any other manager that could have done what Wenger has in the last 7 or 8 years at Arsenal. The fact that he has kept them in the latter stages of the Champions League every year in this period is a quite incredible achievement when considering the resources available to their competition. Hardly. Arsenal's wage bill will be one of the top 10 in Europe. They aren't some plucky wee triers Wenger has clawed to the top of the game. And Arsenal's wage bill has, almost without exception, been one of the top 4 in the division. They absolutely should be finishing in the top 4. Before Man City breenged in, it was Man U, Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea. Now it is Man City, Man U, Chelsea and Arsenal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big River Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Yeah. I think it will be Man U, Man C, Chelsea and Arsenal. Chelsea will have to sign a striker or preferably 2 in January and empty Torres. What about Spurs? I'd say they were in a better state than either Arsenal or Chelsea right now although consistency may be an issue with AVB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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