A great feeling at Cappielow..

[mcintyre_gmfc]

So that's Morton failed to attract part-time Craig Malcom, from Stranraer, and part-time Chris Turner, from Dumbarton, so far this pre-season.

Fucking guffaw!

No biggie really, there will be better players available. Still though, it could be worse, could be a Ayr Utd supporter and watch shite like Chris Smith and Scott McLaughlin week in week out. Edited May 16, 2013 by mcintyre_gmfc

[Toby]

I seriously don't remember a vote.

All I know was that the rules state if a club is relegated by the end date of the season, which used to be June 1 then they ate considered an SFL club.

Basically if Hearts go tits up like Rangers after the finish date, then Dundee will be down and Morton promoted mirroring last season with you being Dundee, Hearts being Rangers and Dundee being Dunfermline.

Can't remember a vote Toby.

Mind you that much was going on maybe I missed it.

My head hurts now LOL.

Okay, my link is the Daily Record, but the link below should confirm for you that there was a vote. I take your point about being considered an SFL club, but in that case Dundee would be relegated then promoted should they, as I'd expect win the vote.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/dundee-to-avoid-vote-over-who-1166075

[Gaz FFC]

Okay, my link is the Daily Record, but the link below should confirm for you that there was a vote. I take your point about being considered an SFL club, but in that case Dundee would be relegated then promoted should they, as I'd expect win the vote.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/dundee-to-avoid-vote-over-who-1166075

I seriously can't remember this amongst the chaos of last summer.

How did the vote go numbers wise?

I also remember the BBC link which was very clear that if Rangers go belly up after the end of the season, Dundee were up and Pars down.

Why this needed a vote is confusing.

No wonder the SPL get slagged for their handling of the whole thing

[Toby]

I seriously can't remember this amongst the chaos of last summer.

How did the vote go numbers wise?

I also remember the BBC link which was very clear that if Rangers go belly up after the end of the season, Dundee were up and Pars down.

Why this needed a vote is confusing.

No wonder the SPL get slagged for their handling of the whole thing

I don't mind them having a vote over it to be honest. There were no rules set in stone so it was probably the only thing they could've done without threat of legal action from Dumfermline (which I think came anyway).

And bear in mind that when Airdrieonians folded in 2002, yourselves and Stenhousemuir survived instead of extra teams going up so that sort of thing isn't exclusive to the SPL.

Regarding the vote, I'm not sure on the exact numbers but you can imagine on a straight vote between Dunfermline and Dundee it would've been a no brainer for the likes of St. Johnstone, Dundee United and Aberdeen.

[Gaz FFC]

I don't mind them having a vote over it to be honest. There were no rules set in stone so it was probably the only thing they could've done without threat of legal action from Dumfermline (which I think came anyway).

And bear in mind that when Airdrieonians folded in 2002, yourselves and Stenhousemuir survived instead of extra teams going up so that sort of thing isn't exclusive to the SPL.

Regarding the vote, I'm not sure on the exact numbers but you can imagine on a straight vote between Dunfermline and Dundee it would've been a no brainer for the likes of St. Johnstone, Dundee United and Aberdeen.

Yep, I know how lucky we were in 02. I said to everyone I knew I didn't want to stay up at the expense of a club dieing.

Sadly that happened.

Onto your last paragraph. I know your right and isn't it funny how those chairmen would be flinging sporting integrity out the window and saying to themselves 'which club will bring us in more green stuff?'

[Cliche Guevara]

Okay, my link is the Daily Record, but the link below should confirm for you that there was a vote. I take your point about being considered an SFL club, but in that case Dundee would be relegated then promoted should they, as I'd expect win the vote.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/dundee-to-avoid-vote-over-who-1166075

That was clearly the Rangers vote though. Dundee weren't subject to a vote: they were invited on the basis the team at the bottom of the SPL always has to be relegated.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/scottish/dundee-to-replace-rangers-in-spl-7945974.html

Edited May 16, 2013 by Cliche Guevara

[Toby]

Yep, I know how lucky we were in 02. I said to everyone I knew I didn't want to stay up at the expense of a club dieing.

Sadly that happened.

Onto your last paragraph. I know your right and isn't it funny how those chairmen would be flinging sporting integrity out the window and saying to themselves 'which club will bring us in more green stuff?'

That wasn't actually a dig at Falkirk believe it or not, more an observation that it's normally the team in the higher divison that I'd expect to benefit 9 times out of 10. In your own case in 2002 I'm undecided about what was right and what was wrong- if you finish 3rd in a 10 team league (and I know we've got play offs now) you should feel extremely forunate if you find yourself promoted.

I see your point about the club that brings the "green stuff", but it might be best to hold back on that one unless it comes down to a decision between Morton and Dundee should Hearts be liquidated given that you appear to agree that Dundee should've gone up. If the SPL decide Dundee deserve the place, given I think we agree they're more financially beneficial to the rest of the SPL than Morton, by all means fill your boots.

Regarding who should go up should the worst happen to Hearts, I'll go into that in more detail in my response to Cliche Guevara below;

That was clearly the Rangers vote though. Dundee weren't subject to a vote: they were invited on the basis the team at the bottom of the SPL always has to be relegated.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/scottish/dundee-to-replace-rangers-in-spl-7945974.html

It was a quick Google search that took me to that article, and to be honest I'm absolutely bemused by it. It's not clearly the Rangers vote, as by that time Rangers had been told they couldn't re-start in the SPL. What it does seem to be is about a vote between SFL clubs on who replaced Rangers, but why the SFL would have that decision is beyond me. I should've been more careful reading that over before using it.

My memory was that the SPL clubs took a vote on who "Club 12" would be, but according to http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/dunfermline/9410103/Dunfermline-could-challenge-Dundees-right-to-be-in-Scottish-Premier-League.htmlhttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/dunfermline/9410103/Dunfermline-could-challenge-Dundees-right-to-be-in-Scottish-Premier-League.html'> this article it would appear I was wrong and an invitation was made to Dundee on "sporting merit".

Given that Dunfermline finished last season 7 points behind second bottom Hibs and Dundee 24 behind champions Ross County, I can only assume "sporting merit" has yet to be explained by the SPL. It suggest though that finishing 2nd in the 1st Division is seen as a greater achievement than bottom of the SPL, and given Morton were far closer to the top and finished with a greater points total, if Hearts were liquidated this would only point to Morton coming up, unless, as Gaz suggests, the club that is more valuable to the league is the one who is invited in, making a mockery of "sporting merit". I dare say the SPL could use the fact that Cappielow isn't up to scratch as their get out clause there, of course.

If Hearts merely enter administration and are relegated as a result of a points deduction then it's a no brainer surely. Dundee would finish in 11th place and survive on the basis they didn't finish bottom.

I'll take issue with your point that the team that finishes bottom of the SPL always has to be relegated though- this wasn't the case in either 1999 or 2003 as a result of firstly reconstruction and Falkirk's failure to meet stadium criteria and secondly Falkirk again not having a stadium in place.

Hopefully administration is the worst to happen to Hearts, but it would be interesting to see how the SPL could use the "sporting merit" argument to keep Dundee in the league instead of promoting Morton given last year's events.

As I've said before though, hopefully we are in the First Division next year. After 25 years (and counting...) out of the top flight, sack getting promotion because a couple of blokes in suits decide that's how it'll be. I'll take winning the league instead, no matter how many years that takes.

[#Gary]

You'd think planting agents would actually lead to Morton finishing above Dundee, how many times have you witnessed that happening?

mortonmad

[Cliche Guevara]

It was a quick Google search that took me to that article, and to be honest I'm absolutely bemused by it. It's not clearly the Rangers vote, as by that time Rangers had been told they couldn't re-start in the SPL. What it does seem to be is about a vote between SFL clubs on who replaced Rangers, but why the SFL would have that decision is beyond me. I should've been more careful reading that over before using it.

My memory was that the SPL clubs took a vote on who "Club 12" would be, but according to it would appear I was wrong and an invitation was made to Dundee on "sporting merit".

I'll take issue with your point that the team that finishes bottom of the SPL always has to be relegated though- this wasn't the case in either 1999 or 2003 as a result of firstly reconstruction and Falkirk's failure to meet stadium criteria and secondly Falkirk again not having a stadium in place.

You needn't be confused - it was the vote on whether The Rangers were admitted into the 1st Division or 3rd Division. That's what happened and that's what the article stated.

Current SPL rules require a team to be relegated to the SFL.Technically, Ross County replaced Dunfermline.

[Thumper]

No biggie really, there will be better players available. Still though, it could be worse, could be a Ayr Utd supporter and watch shite like Chris Smith and Scott McLaughlin week in week out.

The Chris Smith that took Ayr to Hampden with a winning goal at St Mirren last season? Oh aye, you'd hate that.

[forzamorton]

The Chris Smith that took Ayr to Hampden with a winning goal at St Mirren last season? Oh aye, you'd hate that.

Subsequently, the club with Chris Smith in it was then relegated from the First Division and are now scrambling around the bottom half of the Second Division.

You're damn f*cking right we'd hate that.

[mcintyre_gmfc]

^^ What he said.

[Toby]

You needn't be confused - it was the vote on whether The Rangers were admitted into the 1st Division or 3rd Division. That's what happened and that's what the article stated.

Current SPL rules require a team to be relegated to the SFL.Technically, Ross County replaced Dunfermline.

No, current SPL rules don't require that a team is relegated to the SFL.

http://www.scotprem.com/content/mediaassets/doc/Membership%20Criteria%202013-14.pdf

Page 2 of this pdf file on the SPL website, which can be found under SPL Membership Criteria 2013/14 on their website, states on page two that;

The requirement that the Candidate Club meets the Membership Criteria of the League

is to be found in Rule A2.2. If the Candidate Club fails to meet the Membership Criteria

of the League and is not granted a waiver, relaxation or a period of grace by the Board

then it will not be promoted and will not be admitted entry to the League. In that

circumstance the Club which would otherwise have been relegated will retain its place

in the League. This is provided for in Rule A2.3.

[vikingTON]

The Chris Smith that took Ayr to Hampden with a winning goal at St Mirren last season? Oh aye, you'd hate that.

Chris Smith will be taking Ayr back to Hampden on a regular basis.

[MrDust]

No, current SPL rules don't require that a team is relegated to the SFL.

http://www.scotprem.com/content/mediaassets/doc/Membership%20Criteria%202013-14.pdf

Page 2 of this pdf file on the SPL website, which can be found under SPL Membership Criteria 2013/14 on their website, states on page two that;

The requirement that the Candidate Club meets the Membership Criteria of the League

is to be found in Rule A2.2. If the Candidate Club fails to meet the Membership Criteria

of the League and is not granted a waiver, relaxation or a period of grace by the Board

then it will not be promoted and will not be admitted entry to the League. In that

circumstance the Club which would otherwise have been relegated will retain its place

in the League. This is provided for in Rule A2.3.

The SPL have rules ......

Ive not read back....but there was a joke of a situation that Dundee nearly failed going up last season, due to not applying to the SPL to go up, we had and if they hadnt apply, we wouldve went up last season albeit finishing 3rd.......

Football should be all about merit on the park, The SPL have seemed to erase that part with Scottish football...but still we have had Michael Higdon and Charlie Mulgrew as players of the year in recent years....they seem to be doing something right......

[Thumper]

Subsequently, the club with Chris Smith in it was then relegated from the First Division and are now scrambling around the bottom half of the Second Division.

You're damn f*cking right we'd hate that.

Inevitable tears. Ayr's failure this season was unlikely to bust a stingy boardroom. Morton's will dash the hopes of a generation, especially when part time football arrives.

[Dunning1874]

Chris Smith will be taking Ayr back to Hampden on a regular basis.

Ooft, telt. Most supporters would admit defeat upon this particular shafting, but not Ayr fans. You can guarantee they'll be back again despite their latest humiliation, desperately scrambling for the slightest bit of relevance once again.

[Cliche Guevara]

Chris Smith isn't an Ayr player.

[Scary Bear]

Hate to say it but this Morton team is starting to look decent, another year of the sweetie man throwing money at his team?

It's bound to pay off one of these years. .

[ayrmad]

Ooft, telt. Most supporters would admit defeat upon this particular shafting, but not Ayr fans. You can guarantee they'll be back again despite their latest humiliation, desperately scrambling for the slightest bit of relevance once again.

Your team will play someone other than QP at Hampden at somepoint in your life, mibbee.