Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[MEADOWXI]

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/rangers-resolution-hold-breath/1635

Latest opinions of Alex Thomson on last nights BBC program

[graeme_p]

Funny just how quiet Jardine and McCoist have become. No clamber for names to be named or transparancy now. How ironic that so much dodgy dealings were lacking transparancy for years inside ibrox. Can some please hurry up and punt Duff &Phelps and shut this club down before it leaves a bigger stain on our game that we cant remove.

[Highlandmagyar]

He'd be a twat too.

:lol: :lol:

[WaffenThinMint]

No, it could happen and has been talked about since the start of this whole sorry tale. Likely candidate clubs include:

- Cowdenbeath - chairman one D Findlay QC, leaving their ground next year with no known destination, now in SFL1 so would get "them" back into the SPL quickly

- Clyde - in pretty dire financial straits with very small fan base so few people to complain, not really operating in their traditional location now anyway. Regular noises about them being kicked out of Broadwood?

- East Stirlingshire - regularly the ginger stepchild of the league, groundsharing with Stenhousemuir, low crowds, have an owner who would willingly sell.

No, it won't happen.

Cowdenbeath's promotion - ironically - saves them from any such hostile takeover, as with their money streams about to increase considerably there's more incentive than ever for the current regime to sit tight. Sir Donald would also probably fear very much for his own safety if he was to be involved in killing Cowdenbeath - the folks up in the Cowdenbeath/Lumphinnans/Lochgelly area of the world don't exactly take prisoners.

Clyde - could be in danger if their board decides sod it.

East Stirlingshire - no chance. Three attempts to kill them off have failed (Clydebank Juniors, Spartans, past owners) and their tiny fanbase are somewhat expert at preventing attempts to do so by now. If you were to ask a bookie for odds for a battle between the Shire Trust against the bumbling incompetents of the Blue Knights or the Green Gobbledeegook, it would be abouit the only time you'd find East Stirlingshire as odds on favourites to win.

Finally, there's the most important consideration - money. The damning truth is that Rangers suitors have barely two brass farthings to rub together, and the fans fundraiser has been a joke (half a million in four months from their supposedly massive fanbase for a club at death's door is pitiful). They will struggle to even buy the assets of Rangers at liquidation prices in my view. The bigger they are, the bigger the fall, and the bigger the rope needed to hall them out of the hole.

My guess is that the Blue Knights and others are already working on plans for a "continuity Rangers" based elsewhere, probably applying to the East Of Scotland League for a 2013/14 start. They've left everything else too late.

[realmadrid]

Ken McGeogh

To be honest, I think he was duped

But what we all need to know is did he sleep with Joanna Lumley or does he know Prince Albert of Monaco?

[Stingraypoindexter]

Ellis claimed that Whyte said his major financial backer was Prince Albert of Monaco. Mark Daly rang his office and a statement came back denying that Al knew the MBB.

Ah thank you, that makes sense.. well obviously it's completely insane but....

you need to watch it mate, just for the womans accent.

Oh I will!!

[Drooper]

But what we all need to know is did he sleep with Joanna Lumley or does he know Prince Albert of Monaco?

He probably had a crack at Prince Albert.

[LuoAnLai]

Cockwomble.org is genius!

It just gave me 'fuckbungle', as in 'that cockwomble has made a right fuckbungle of this Rangers situation'.

[port-ton]

I hate this thread. I only read it when the shit starts to hit the fan, and it keeps looking like ending and Rangers getting away with it, and then something new comes out and i have to find the starting point of the funny stuff.

[Happy Buddie]

23 May 2012 21:24:23

My donation to the rangers fighting fund is being used to buy grass seed and I am pissed off about this. This is not what I donated money for, and am going to contact them tomorrow for a refund, I am furious.

I donated to say my club, not to pay for lawn mowers, or weed killer. Pay the small businesses shafted by us, that's what I donated for.

It appears the RFF are nothing but the same sheisters that have been ruining our club. How dare they spend my hard earned money which I donated in good faith to prepare a pitch that we not play on again, and have no players to p,at on it. They have announced this on Rangers website as if it's some sort of great thing,well it stinks!

This may be the final straw that breaks my back. These RFFs are taking the piss.

(18)(8)Wrong place but after tonite im done, no more, had it! looking after my family only now.

bad day

Firstly I will say I haven't donated to the RFF so am probably not entitled to complain but I would have happily chipped in generously if I knew the 'charity' was going to donate to the likes of the Scottish ambulance services who are official RFC creditors.

BB

Not much of a fan if you demand a refund the fighting fund was set up to keep the club going obviously the playing surface is a vital part of any football club

"My donation is being used to buy grass seed". You guys are the laughing stock of the football world.

I agree this is deffo turf luck

Last poster, I donated to help pay the debts to small creditors and to keep my club going. Grass seed is ridiculous and if they had stated that my money was going to be used to provide a nice pitch I would not have donated, incidentally did you donate!

Only an integral part of a football club, if there is a team to put upon it.

It was obvious that the fund was meant to help keep Rangers going, not to pay creditors. Crazy post

Celtic fan here. What Murray and co have done to your club is disgraceful and should be locked up. The club are going to pay heavily for all of this but I genuinely have sympathy for you, the supporters, the people who pay your hard earned cash to watch the team you love.

And yes, I will not lie, I have had a laugh at Rangers expense during all this, but if I put myself in your position I would be truly devastated at what has been going on at my club.

So, despite the differences between our clubs, between the supporters, all the hatred and history that has come with this great rivalry if football, I hope these criminals get what they deserve and Rangers come out the other side with the right people at the helm.

Last poster, how does a nice pitch keep the club going?

Don't talk garbage, the RFF was set up to pay creditors and the likes of Dunfermline, which it did, I know, I put my hard earned money in, did you?

Don't tell me what this was for, and it was not for grass seed. They are just as much sheisters that have been ruining this club for years.

Hark, I think I hear the penny finally dropping.

Wee post from Rangers Rumours today. That penny is going to have to make a helluva noise to wake some of these sandsleepers up. Beautiful, eh? Now the RFF is shafting the fans. Remind me again who's facing up that Fund? Sandy Jardine? Nuff said. .

Edited May 24, 2012 by Happy Buddie

[pozbaird]

Funny just how quiet Jardine and McCoist have become. No clamber for names to be named or transparancy now. How ironic that so much dodgy dealings were lacking transparancy for years inside ibrox. Can some please hurry up and punt Duff &Phelps and shut this club down before it leaves a bigger stain on our game that we cant remove.

Not really. The weather is braw' - they'll be on the golf course. Ally has got no worries at all. First off, a six figure sum for the serialisation of 'Ally - My Ibrox Heartache', followed by a stick-on media job, like Charlie Nick' on Soccer Saturday.

Jardine? Not sure there's much call for gobshite w****r bawsack ambasadors these days. JobCentre Plus it is then.

Edited May 24, 2012 by pozbaird

[No8.]

Really was that it? Just watched the programme and the upshot is .... Murray sold Rangers down the river to a crooked lying b*****d and D&P were in on this from day one.

We knew all that as Grier walked down Edminston Drive hand in hand with Whyte!!!!

As for the EBTs..It was hardly groundbreaking stuff either and we will all have to wait for the appeal decision to be announced.

I am sure during all the time Sir David Murray was in control of Rangers he acted in what he saw as the clubs best interests. I wanted him to sell as it was obvious the time had come for him to move on and even he realised this. His biggest 'crime' against Rangers was selling to Craig Whyte against the wishes of the independant board he had set up. That 1 decision is the single worst decision in the 140 years of Rangers Football Club and imo will ultimately lead to the death of Rangers Football Club as we know it. Nothing was worth this...Not 9 in a row...Not having the opportunity to watch some truly great players and certainly not Manchester. I would trade every trophy won during that period just to see the club survive but i am afraid it appears to be too late...Thanks Mr Murray...you have killed the club!!

[Ivo den Bieman]

East Stirling is going to be very difficult to purchase i think. Although Spencer Fearn sold up and Alan Mackin is still involved with Firs Park I think that Shire Trust own most of the shares. One of their fans will be best to confirm this mind. I don't see Shire Trust selling to Rangers. In talks on a new ground in Falkirk (Bainsford) are they not?

Clyde- Are they not in a CIC type scheme making it difficult to purchase? Meant to be moving to EK long term.

Cowdenbeath is an interesting one, I guess it is a possibility but I see it as unlikely as I'm not sure the club is in a position where people want to sell.

I'd add ourselves to this one. If we didn't have a Chairman and Board so passionate about the club and we were sold to the wrong people, we very much could have been shut down and moved to Ibrox.

However any transfer has to be approved. Whilst many understood the Airdrie-Clydebank thing, could many do the same for say replacing St Mirren with Rangers?

Agree with this. On paper Shire are very vulnerable as they are utterly cash strapped and progress toward a new ground has stalled in the last couple of years, although they are working very hard to raise funds. As you say though their Trust owns them and won't allow them to be franchised.

I can see why people identify Cowden as vulnerable, but Donald Findlay, for all his Rangers background, is from the town and has worked his fingers to the bone in the last two years just to keep that club in existence, with spectacular results. They are much further down the track in planning for a new ground than the Shire, and I would be absolutely astonished if he allowed a hostile takeover. Even if he were minded to do so (and there is no evidence that he is) there are too many other people involved in the club now, and planning for its future, for it to become a reality. The suspicion stems from the actions of the previous owners of the football club, the Brewster family, who still own Central park and are the people putting them out at the end of next season. the Brewsters allegedly had entered a deal to sell Cowden's league place to Spartans so they could press ahead with their alternative plans for CP, but a press leak and subsequent outrage sank that plan for good. A case of putting 2 and 2 together and getting 27.

Clyde equally is a non starter. There is talk of a long term move to a new stadium in EK which is pretty advanced and has good financial backing from local businessmen. But, for the moment, they are staying at Broadwood and slowly paying off their debt from a crazy overspend in their near-miss in trying to get to the SPL. They are also a CIC and I see it as near impossible for them to be franchised. Whether Clyde rebrand as "East Kilbride FC" if their move to that town goes ahead in the future remains to be seen. They won't re-emerge as "Rangers Newco FC" though, of that I'm certain.

There are vulnerable clubs in the SFL but there is no Clydebank - style basket case as there was in 2002, when Airdrie United successfully franchised that club. Shire would be closest to it but the fact that the football club is owned by their fans make a franchise gambit finished before it's even started.

I can honestly only see Rangers, in the event of liquidation, having to re-apply for a vacant Div 3 place over the summer. Last night's programme, whilst very damning in parts (and including some real cringey moments, too, such as the fake phonecall and empty chairs- talk about ham acting), is not quite a knock out blow IMO. The knock out will come if the BBC releases the evidence they clearly have sat on for this programme, later on in the summer.

If Rangers Newco re-emerge in SFL3 for next season (and there are many logistical hurdles and rules to be set aside for that to happen- such as three years worth of accounts, evidence of community involvement, youth and womens teams, etc) then that's the best case scenario for them IMO. it's all about to get very, very messy in the next fortnight. I very much doubt that a CVA can now be agreed which means that the Yorkshire potato farmer is out the picture. Which only leaves Alex Thomson's unidentified "potential investors with a lot moe money than Green" standing between Rangers and liquidation. Ironically a Newco in SFL3 would probably be a Blue Knights operation. they don't have the money to clear Rangers debts and fund the club at a title challenging level in the SPL, but I am sure that they could at least get them re-started in SFL 3, should that opportunity arise.

[pozbaird]

Really was that it? Just watched the programme and the upshot is .... Murray sold Rangers down the river to a crooked lying b*****d and D&P were in on this from day one.

We knew all that as Grier walked down Edminston Drive hand in hand with Whyte!!!!

As for the EBTs..It was hardly groundbreaking stuff either and we will all have to wait for the appeal decision to be announced.

I am sure during all the time Sir David Murray was in control of Rangers he acted in what he saw as the clubs best interests. I wanted him to sell as it was obvious the time had come for him to move on and even he realised this. His biggest 'crime' against Rangers was selling to Craig Whyte against the wishes of the independant board he had set up. That 1 decision is the single worst decision in the 140 years of Rangers Football Club and imo will ultimately lead to the death of Rangers Football Club as we know it. Nothing was worth this...Not 9 in a row...Not having the opportunity to watch some truly great players and certainly not Manchester. I would trade every trophy won during that period just to see the club survive but i am afraid it appears to be too late...Thanks Mr Murray...you have killed the club!!

Really was that it?

Nope, that wasn't it. That was just the BBC turning the can opener and revealing some more of the worms in the can. The real big news is about to happen when HMRC, the SFA, and UEFA give the can a proper emptying. The SPL? They'll continue to hide in a corner and hope they don't have to make a decision on fcuk-all. Shitehawks.

When the dust settles on this, one way or another, that chunt Doncaster should be booted to F.

[welshbairn]

cockwomble.org

it's an actual webpage!!!

We should do the same as the Yanks did to Santorum, the US Republican Presidential Candidate whose name now means something very, very rude.

Every time we mention Neil Doncaster link his name to Cockwomble, in text as well as a link to cockwomble.org. Google will take care of the rest..

[Henrik's tongue]

Really was that it? Just watched the programme and the upshot is .... Murray sold Rangers down the river to a crooked lying b*****d and D&P were in on this from day one.

We knew all that as Grier walked down Edminston Drive hand in hand with Whyte!!!!

As for the EBTs..It was hardly groundbreaking stuff either and we will all have to wait for the appeal decision to be announced.

I am sure during all the time Sir David Murray was in control of Rangers he acted in what he saw as the clubs best interests. I wanted him to sell as it was obvious the time had come for him to move on and even he realised this. His biggest 'crime' against Rangers was selling to Craig Whyte against the wishes of the independant board he had set up. That 1 decision is the single worst decision in the 140 years of Rangers Football Club and imo will ultimately lead to the death of Rangers Football Club as we know it. Nothing was worth this...Not 9 in a row...Not having the opportunity to watch some truly great players and certainly not Manchester. I would trade every trophy won during that period just to see the club survive but i am afraid it appears to be too late...Thanks Mr Murray...you have killed the club!!

Walk away mate. Just walk away.

[No8.]

Wee post from Rangers Rumours today. That penny is going to have to make a helluva noise to wake some of these sandsleepers up. Beautiful, eh? Now the RFF is shafting the fans. Remind me again who's facing up that Fund? Sandy Jardine? Nuff said. .

I have paid money into the fund like thousands of others..I bought a Red and Black scarf..Bought the Wee Flags etc but i stopped after they seriously considered using some of the money to turn a piece of waste land near the ground into a nice wee garden and they were going to plant Orange Lillies..

[EdinburghBlue]

Not sure what the cut-off date is, but yes, if they are still in administration (must be getting less likely all the time) there will be another ten points deducted next season!

Technically correct, but with all the guff from SPL chairmen about how important Rangers are for Scottish football I've no doubt that the SPL will agree to give them a 20 point start for the next few years to compensate them for the dreadful treatment they have had from the SFA who dared to fine them for breaching rules that everyone should realise applied to all bar two clubs.

[chrismcarab]

Seems pretty clear cut on the D&P thing, can't see them having an recourse with their legal action. In simple terms:

• Grier was acting as a partner at MCR during the takeover and had knowledge of the workings and structure of the deal
• D&P bought MCR and Grier became senior partner at D&P

When Whyte approached D&P to ask them to become administrators, even if Grier was under an NDA about the specifics of any prior transactions during the takeover of RFC, he didn't have to say 'why' or 'what' those specifics were and advised D&P of a potential conflict of interest.

This is where they will get nailed to the cross (oh the irony )

Because of his prior knowledge and involvement through MCR as a subsidiary company of new owners D&P - (his involvement is clear from the emails and letters) - he was duty bound as a new senior partner at D&P to advise them against taking up administration duties. The reason he chose not to do so is he clearly was working in cahoots with Whyte to keep this as secret as possible.

Paul Clark's statement has so many holes in it you drive a porn stars bus through it:

"I thought that MCR became aware of the full scale of Ticketus funding in July or August. I gave an honest answer to the best of my recollection as I had not been closely involved in the Rangers takeover work at the time.

"There is a world of difference between knowing that Ticketus was a potential source of working capital funding for the club … and knowing that funding from ticket sales had been effectively used to purchase the club."

Wasn't he also at MCR along with Grier? Regardless, now it seems they're effectively accusing each other of withholding facts in relation to the takeover which is effectively in-house at D&P these days with any MCR documentation and NDA's now transferrable to the parent company as I understand it? Anyone want to correct me?

I don't think the phrase 'to the best of my recollection' is one that usually stands up in court. It's a nice response that effectively means - I'm not going to admit to anything and I'm not going to lie to you either - prove it!

And back to the old 'knowing' classic. Another classic 'prove it' statement. D&P had to respond, they'll have spent days preparing those statements after they refused the chance to face Daly's questions. They knew it was coming, they know they're over a barrel and the libel actions are all just a deflection til they can scamper away into the distance.

Knowing when your senior partner was involved in a deal to buy the club you are now the administrator of should have set the alarm bells ringing for any administrator who was competent, trustworthy and responsible. It's a gut instinct mate. For example, I might not 'know' if there are proper weirdos are in my street, but if I feel uneasy or suspect something is a bit off with someone, I wouldn't let them take my kids camping if they turned up at the door with a tent.

F*cking imbeciles and the whole lot of them deserve to go down with the HMS RFC. And breath.....rant over

[Thistle_do_nicely]

Were the EBTs not given as 'Loans'? I thought the idea was you made these 'loans' out to the players but the understanding was they never paid them back.. The problem Rangers had was they gave the agents letters saying that the 'Loans' did not have to be paid back..which then made them payments...HMRCs problem is they coud not produce any of these letters during the Big Tax Case.

lol

As for the EBTs..It was hardly groundbreaking stuff either and we will all have to wait for the appeal decision to be announced.

I'm amused that you've gone from posting on here consistently towing the line that the EBT's were perfectly legal up until 2010, Rangers have done nothing wrong, Rangers will be fine, nothing to see here to now saying "well, I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens".