Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[Monkey Tennis]

13 hours ago, The_Kincardine said:

There was nothing illegitimate about the geegaws we won during the EBT years.  Yes, we had some administrative slip-ups and LNS deal with this perfectly well.  We also had a wrangle with HMRC over how tax should be apportioned and, after 7 years, the revenue won on points.

Talk of 'cheating' and 'financial doping' and 'biggest sporting scandal' is straight from "The Moon-howlers Guide to Hysterical Hyperbole" and holds no credence whatsoever.  All we are guilty of is an administrative sleight of hand and the use of a tax-enhancing scheme which, based on advice given at the time, seemed sensible.

To hold any other view is to pander to the lowest common denominator.

Nah, not good enough.  

You were responding directly to me and not only have I refrained from making a charge of 'financial doping' myself, I've actually explicitly stated that such a notion is unhelpful.

The phrase 'administrative slip-ups' doesn't begin to capture what happened.  That was that a club deliberately submitted false information when registering many players over many seasons because it knew that it was paying them in ways that could result in a tax bill it couldn't possibly meet.

Genuine, isolated instances of errors in player registration have historically resulted in punitive sanctions.  That Rangers' results have been allowed to stand in such circumstances is massively anomalous and problematic for the credibility of our game.

[wastecoatwilly]

7 minutes ago, bennett said:

Once registered with the SFA the players remained registered until they left the club, the registrations were valid (even with errors). The SPl appointed lawyer failed to grasp that fact, thankfully William Nimmo Smith knew his business.

 

Seperate issue in correcting our learned friends basic ebt error. There are no question marks regarding players registrations, LNS cleared that nonsense up for us.

 

 

 

 

So that's  why we had the late night sessions at the Watergate hotel?

[Monkey Tennis]

7 minutes ago, bennett said:

Once registered with the SFA the players remained registered until they left the club, the registrations were valid (even with errors). The SPl appointed lawyer failed to grasp that fact, thankfully William Nimmo Smith knew his business.

 

Seperate issue in correcting our learned friends basic ebt error. There are no question marks regarding players registrations, LNS cleared that nonsense up for us.

 

 

 

 

They were therefore not "correctly registered" as you'd claimed.

LNS has not cleared this up.  He's made a ruling you like, based on a premise that has subsequently altered, while using a phrase that is palpably absurd.  

You don't have intrinsic respect for LNS or the process he arrived at his view via.  It's simply that his reading matches your preferred one quite closely.

[bennett]

5 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

They were therefore not "correctly registered" as you'd claimed.

LNS has not cleared this up.  He's made a ruling you like, based on a premise that has subsequently altered, while using a phrase that is palpably absurd.  

You don't have intrinsic respect for LNS or the process he arrived at his view via.  It's simply that his reading matches your preferred one quite closely.

Here we go, the same posts being repeated over and over and over and over again in typical monkey fashion.

 

 

 

[bennett]

10 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

So that's  why we had the late night sessions at the Watergate hotel?

I must have been really blootered cos i can't remember that ..

 

Edited July 8, 2017 by bennett
Auto correct predictive thing

[Monkey Tennis]

3 minutes ago, bennett said:

Here we go, the same posts being repeated over and over and over and over again in typical monkey fashion.

 

 

 

And I'll keep doing it Bennett, until such time as you can counter the highly relevant points made in a remotely convincing way.

Try it.

[wastecoatwilly]

7 minutes ago, bennett said:

I must have been really blootered cos it can't remember that ..

 

Campbell ogilivie remembers 

[Brother Blades]

Genuine question to the bears.
Let's leave everything else aside - points of law, previous enquiry judgements, campaigns for title stripping, perceived punishments, real punishments etc etc.
Are you happy to keep the titles?
Not embarrassed by the underhand financial dealings perpetrated by the board at the time?
Feel that #54 is more important than the integrity of the club you love & support?

I'm not interested in any arguments over right or wrong, just asking for your own personal opinion on the questions I've asked.

[Forever_blueco]

50 minutes ago, Brother Blades said:

Genuine question to the bears.
Let's leave everything else aside - points of law, previous enquiry judgements, campaigns for title stripping, perceived punishments, real punishments etc etc.
Are you happy to keep the titles?
Not embarrassed by the underhand financial dealings perpetrated by the board at the time?
Feel that #54 is more important than the integrity of the club you love & support?

I'm not interested in any arguments over right or wrong, just asking for your own personal opinion on the questions I've asked.

We spent money we didn't have . Probably like a major percentage of business's operated this way in the boom period between the 90s and noughties . It's what led to the economic f**k up the country had . Am I disappointed we didn't pay taxes like any professional major business should ? Yes and Murray needs to be held to account . Did I think it gave us a sporting advanatage ? No . 

Edited July 8, 2017 by Forever_blueco

[The OP]

Tbf Celtic were the dominant side in Scotland from 2001 onwards, the shady dealings Rangers indulged in helped them to cling onto Celtic's coat tails, stay ahead of Hearts most seasons and probably delayed their demise.

Edited July 8, 2017 by The OP

[kiddy]

Are they deid yet?

[Brother Blades]

We spent money we didn't have . Probably like a major percentage of business's operated this way in the boom period between the 90s and noughties . It's what led to the economic f**k up the country had . Am I disappointed we didn't pay taxes like any professional major business should ? Yes and Murray needs to be held to account . Did I think it gave us a sporting advanatage ? No . 

Thanks for your candour, but you didn't actually answer any of the questions I asked.
This is not a personal dig at you or your club, but I'd appreciate an honest answer to the questions asked.

[Monkey Tennis]

2 hours ago, Forever_blueco said:

Did I think it gave us a sporting advanatage ? No . 

I don't think the question is central to the issue of title stripping, but how can you, in all honesty, possibly actually think the above?

It's utterly senseless.  What possible point was there to it, other than to gain an advantage on the field?  

Are you saying that it was done for some other purpose, or that it roundly failed in what it attempted?

Seriously, which is it?

 

[Forever_blueco]

21 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

I don't think the question is central to the issue of title stripping, but how can you, in all honesty, possibly actually think the above?

It's utterly senseless.  What possible point was there to it, other than to gain an advantage on the field?  

Are you saying that it was done for some other purpose, or that it roundly failed in what it attempted?

Seriously, which is it?

 

Yes it was done to avoid tax . You think we would have not been able to afford hamed namouchi or boab Malcolm without the use of an EBT?

 

if you want to have a look into the various clubs and companies spending outwith their means in that period you are going to be a very busy man . Christ even to this day it is rife at the top level of the English game . Should Portsmouth have their fa cup of 2008 removed in your opinion?

Edited July 8, 2017 by Forever_blueco

[hellbhoy]

7 hours ago, bennett said:

 

Celti....   The spls low level gatherer of paper misunderstood the SPLs rulebook (LNS statement) The rules did not allow titles to be stripped as the players were correctly registered (SFAs Sandy Bryson).

Howling at the moon won't change that my learned friend.

 

The QC raging with the impartiality of a top law lord yet he had no qualms about the SPL using celtics lawyer to 'prosecute' the case...

Ebt's were in the accounts every season, not just from 2009 my learned friend, can't you get anything right?

As for his tinfoil hat nonsense about rule changes 

 

Honestly Bennett?, you are a fucking idiot. Go back to my initial post you replied to and read again.

The rule changes can be acquired by a quick internet search and it isn't fiction, the changes can be blatantly seen with their insolvency rules ya nugget.

You just can't help but make a complete arse out of yourself on P&B can you, I really should just ignore and just laugh at your pathetic attempts at winding folk up for no apparent reason other than you are a sad lonely fat n baldy individual. 

[hellbhoy]

4 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Nah, not good enough.  

You were responding directly to me and not only have I refrained from making a charge of 'financial doping' myself, I've actually explicitly stated that such a notion is unhelpful.

The phrase 'administrative slip-ups' doesn't begin to capture what happened.  That was that a club deliberately submitted false information when registering many players over many seasons because it knew that it was paying them in ways that could result in a tax bill it couldn't possibly meet.

Genuine, isolated instances of errors in player registration have historically resulted in punitive sanctions.  That Rangers' results have been allowed to stand in such circumstances is massively anomalous and problematic for the credibility of our game.

If it makes you feel any better MT. I am going to post the amount of tax the club tried to avoid each week that eventually killed Rangers FC est 1872.

After toting up and using division 10years & 52weeks after deducting the directors and staff EBT payments of around £10.75 million they put in over the 10 years the EBT scheme was in use came to a paltry weekly amount of just under £28 grand a week.

Back then there was a 40% tax rate for the amounts of wages Rangers players received, they were all in the top tax band. Factoring in that they would have to pay 40% tax we reach a ridiculously embarrassing £12.5K a week in actual tax each week Rangers FC was avoiding paying to the HMRC.

I still can't get over that Rangers FC actually died to avoid paying the HMRC a ridiculous amount of around £12.5K a week, that's just about a wage of one shitty player they signed the Rangers fans would happily see the back off each season and there was more than one each season.

Died to save £12.5 thousand pounds a week.

[Forever_blueco]

1 minute ago, hellbhoy said:

If it makes you feel any better MT. I am going to post the amount of tax the club tried to avoid each week that eventually killed Rangers FC est 1872.

After toting up and using division 10years & 52weeks after deducting the directors and staff EBT payments of around £10.75 million they put in over the 10 years the EBT scheme was in use came to a paltry weekly amount of just under £28 grand a week.

Back then there was a 40% tax rate for the amounts of wages Rangers players received, they were all in the top tax band. Factoring in that they would have to pay 40% tax we reach a ridiculously embarrassing £12.5K a week in actual tax each week Rangers FC was avoiding paying to the HMRC.

I still can't get over that Rangers FC actually died to avoid paying the HMRC a ridiculous amount of around £12.5K a week, that's just about a wage of one shitty player they signed the Rangers fans would happily see the back off each season and there was more than one each season.

Died to save £12.5 thousand pounds a week.

Seville calculator finds its use at long last 

[hellbhoy]

Just now, Forever_blueco said:

Seville calculator finds its use at long last 

£12.5K a week they tried to avoid paying in tax F_B.

Rangers FC est1872 died to save paying the HMRC a paltry £12.5K a week.

How embarrassing does it feel that if your club had just paid the HMRC an extra £12.5K a week there wouldn't be all this shite you and your fellow fans have been put through?

I'll bet there is a player you could pick each season from 2001 to 2010 that you would gladly have seen the back of earning more than £12.5K a week and not only that the club would have benefited from not having to pay them in the first place.

Deid because they didnae want tae pay a pishy £12.5K a week.

[Romeo]

So club 1873 put put a statement saying they'll cover up child abuse if they get to keep their titles and they'll throw other teams under the bus?

Minter.

[hellbhoy]

15 minutes ago, Romeo said:

So club 1873 put put a statement saying they'll cover up child abuse if they get to keep their titles and they'll throw other teams under the bus?

Minter.

That statement from them? It almost reads as a declaration of war! Threatening media outlets that if they publish material they don't like, windaes might be put in and lives threatened ffs?

I hope the SPFL hold an inquiry even if it's a mock sham and they will do f**k all at the end of it just to see the rabids b*****ds go on the march protecting their ill gotten gains. It will be as funny as f**k by the way.