Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[chico]

Is the Newsnight programme up yet, as I can't find it.

See Jim Spence's twitter!

[Broccoli Dog]

Is the Newsnight programme up yet, as I can't find it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01jysvr/Newsnight_Scotland_14_06_2012/

[GunnerBairn]

Tbf if one can put out a hypothetical scenario for a moment... if voting Yes meant being unable to service the club's debt, then quite clearly, it would be far far more important to the club than the broader integrity issues. No-one would be altruistic enough to edge their own club upto the brink of disaster just to put Rangers into the lower levels for 3 or so years. That's just being brutally realistic.

I see where you're coming from. However, the thing that sticks in my craw is that if Johnson is reckless enough to allow his Club to run up ridiculous amounts of debt in order to sign players he cannot afford then Killie deserve everything that comes their way. Time to cut your cloth and adjust like the rest of us mortals. But, as you say, this turkey sure won't be voting for Christmas.

[sjc]

Rangers: SPL delays dual contract investigation

By Chris McLaughlinSenior Football Reporter, BBC ScotlandThe Scottish Premier League's investigation into possible dual contracts at Rangers has been put on hold.

Scotland's top flight is seeking clarity over the new company's responsibilities for previous misdemeanours.

Rangers's new chief executive Charles Green has begun talks with the league over his "newco" application.

The application will be discussed at an SPL board meeting on Monday.

The SPL investigation was launched in early March following allegations that some Rangers players received payments in the past that were not part of their official contracts.

Last month, following disclosures by BBC Scotland about an Employee Benefit Trust operated by the club and former owner Sir David Murray's company, the SPL issued an assurance that it was progressing with the probe.

But, with the "old" Rangers destined for liquidation, matters have drawn to a halt as the issue of who can be held accountable is debated.

Charles Green has begun talks over the "newco" Rangers

Revenue and Customs issued a bill to Rangers for unpaid tax on the EBT schemes, believed to be in the region on £49m, including interest and penalties.

This was contested at a First Tier Tax Tribunal which concluded in January, with the verdict still to be delivered.

BBC Scotland found evidence suggesting that 38 Rangers players had received side-letters giving undertakings to fund their sub-trusts with cash.

Scottish Football Association rules state that all payments made to players in respect of their earnings from football must be declared and clubs falling foul of those rules could face sanctions from the league.

One SPL source told BBC Scotland that part of the Rangers newco's application for league membership could depend on them taking responsibility for past transgressions.

Green has been in discussions with representatives from the SPL for a number of days and his final newco application will be discussed when the league board gathers next week.

When the application has been officially received, the league must allow 14 days before a general meeting of all 12 clubs can be called.

That means that any vote is unlikely to take place before early July.

When the clubs do finally vote, just eight clubs are needed to back the plan for the application to be successful, with Rangers having a say.

We're about to be screwed over, folks

[wellwoodpar]

First Division over Third is a rumour flying about.

They can f*ck right off!!. The first is gonna be a crackin' fight next season. I don't want it spoiled by having that steaming great turd dumped on my cornflakes.

[Broccoli Dog]

I like Spence's suit.

[Homer Thompson]

No, if they are a true newco and have to start everything from scratch right down to having to apply for membership to the SFL then justice is done. If they are voted into the SPL as a brand new entity then that would be killing the game, ICT, C*unty, Gretna, every member of the SPL barring Celtic and Aberdeen had to earn their place in the top flight. t'Rangers should be no different and I do not see any SPL team readmitting them knowing that legally they cannot be punished. If that happened you'd lose most of the fans of every other team.

I agree. And if they genuinely are a newco, then thats what will/should happen. Your other scenario doesnt make sense. How can they be admitted to the SPL as a new entity? They are applying for a transfer of share, meaning theyre the same entity. Thats the crux of the argument.

By its very definition a transfer means keeping the same thing but moving it from one place to another.

But none of the old management are there, so surely.....

Well, they are, sort of! Green bought the assets from H&D, who took over as administrators from Whyte who bought it from Murray. That continuity and transfer of assets makes it a "similar" company. Certainly more so than the totally different company example that was given earlier

There was a bit on one the BBC website that made it clear the SFA can accept or reject any application and attach any conditions. The newco is not a member, if they do not accept conditions and are told to get lost they can't go running to the courts complaining. Is the SPL position similar, i.e. accept these conditions if you want membership or do one.

Ownership of an SPL share, or membership of the SFA, are not legal rights. As long as they both follow their own rules I cant see what legal challenges there could be. The SPL have just voted to introduce a range of sanctions for any newco, selected on a case by case basis. Has anyone seen the list of available sanctions?

He (or rather his 'consortium') have already spent £5.5M or more + legal fees. If you were a housing developer or supermarket chain, and wanted to develop a site in Govan: would you really pay some figure sufficiently sizeable to give him a profit? You're getting a footprint the size of a couple of football pitches, which you have to demolish most of (and incorporate a listed Main Stand), in an area with widespread low-cost land availability, and making yourselves Bears Public Enemy No. 1.

They don't need a license, just membership.

Seemingly this doesn't actually 100% require 3yrs accounts.

Tbf, even if the company's e.g. "RFC 2012 Ltd"... they'll be known colloquially to football+media as "Rangers".

Were Gretna 2008 denied entry to the SFL because of the 3 years of accounts, or is this just a myth peddled about?

[KillieJimbo]

I see where you're coming from. However, the thing that sticks in my craw is that if Johnson is reckless enough to allow his Club to run up ridiculous amounts of debt in order to sign players he cannot afford then Killie deserve everything that comes their way. Time to cut your cloth and adjust like the rest of us mortals. But, as you say, this turkey sure won't be voting for Christmas.

Johnson has probably been the most tight arsed chairman in the whole league, the debt was run up years ago trying to chase the OF while Rangers were starting all their illegal shit.

Don't get me wrong though, he's a complete fud and an embarrassment to our club, he's just not been running up debts and has in fact reduced them by a lot. He sees all of his "good work" being undone by losing tv money but he doesn't seem to realise he'll be losing more as Killie's fanbase plummets even further. Our average gate has basically halved in 10 years, that's how bad Killie are suffering due to the OF's dominance.

Edited June 15, 2012 by KillieJimbo

[Homer Thompson]

I see where you're coming from. However, the thing that sticks in my craw is that if Johnson is reckless enough to allow his Club to run up ridiculous amounts of debt in order to sign players he cannot afford then Killie deserve everything that comes their way. Time to cut your cloth and adjust like the rest of us mortals. But, as you say, this turkey sure won't be voting for Christmas.

I thought Kilmarnock were relatively ok financially now

[Broccoli Dog]

Though I wouldn't have went with that shirt.

[Granny Danger]

Ownership of an SPL share, or membership of the SFA, are not legal rights. As long as they both follow their own rules I cant see what legal challenges there could be. The SPL have just voted to introduce a range of sanctions for any newco, selected on a case by case basis. Has anyone seen the list of available sanctions?

My reading of it was that they would treat each situation on a case-by-case basis and impose whatever sanctions they saw fit. Don't know if they are restricted by a list.

[~~~]

Johnson has probably been the most tight arsed chairman in the whole league, the debt was run up years ago trying to chase the OF while Rangers were starting all their illegal shit.

Don't get me wrong though, he's a complete fud and an embarrassment to our club, he's just not been running up debts and has in fact reduced them by a lot. He sees all of his "good work" being undone by losing tv money but he doesn't seem to realise he'll be losing more as Killie's fanbase plummets even further. Our average gate has basically halved in 10 years, that's how bad Killie are suffering due to the OF's dominance.

I think the problem is, he sees Kilmarnock as a business first.

[GunnerBairn]

Though I wouldn't have went with that shirt.

Thanks for letting us know, Dog.

[Jim Leighton]

Saw this just now in relation to Lance Armstrong and the UCI (cycling's governing body) and their ineffective role monitoring alleged widespread doping:

you can't have the body in charge of promoting a sport also policing it

How can the SPL (or SFA for that matter) be suitable 'police' of their members when it comes to sending the vile bigots into a permanent resting place 6 ft under? All the likes of Doncaster care about is the bottom line. The same goes for the succulents who know fine well it's the knuckledraggers that buy their soon-to-be pishy chipwrappers, and they'll therefore be loathe to shite on their own doorstep.

Edited June 15, 2012 by Jim Leighton

[realmadrid]

Johnson has probably been the most tight arsed chairman in the whole league, the debt was run up years ago trying to chase the OF while Rangers were starting all their illegal shit.

Was the debt not run buildingdng the ridiculously big stadium and hotel.

I know the Killmarnock fans are going to come on here and say "The hotel makes a profit" but the profit is so small its going to take about 100 years to pay for its self.

Edited June 15, 2012 by realmadrid

[EKACCIES]

If Rangers newco don't get admitted to SPL , Dundee will be promoted to SPL, Airdrie Utd to DIV 1.

Rangers could buy Airdrie Utd from Jim Ballantyne and go into Div 1, and possibly one year away from SPL.

[cyderspaceman]

I have a quetion to ask, please.

I don't reside in Scotland, so cannot gauge the general feeling 'on the ground'.

On this site, the general attitude is NO NEWCO and also, maybe, NO RANGERS AT ALL.

I have no problem with that but does the same attitude exist in the pubs, clubs and

elsewhere in football circles as far as anyone can tell?

Certain circle excepted, of course.

I imagine the answer will be yes, but I just thought I'd ask.

[HibeeJibee]

But, as you say, this turkey sure won't be voting for Christmas.

I never mentioned Kilmarnock in my post.

Were Gretna 2008 denied entry to the SFL because of the 3 years of accounts, or is this just a myth peddled about?

Presume you mean SFA. All that one can conclude is that they applied after they'd been in existence for 3yrs. However, that doesn't necessarily mean they needed to. They didn't form a youth team until this season, for example.

Edited June 15, 2012 by HibeeJibee

[T_S_A_R]

Saw this just now in relation to Lance Armstrong and the UCI (cycling's governing body) and their ineffective role monitoring alleged widespread doping:

it's a bit different.

the uci took bribes from armstrong and covered up a positive test. the usps conspiracy is 100xs more serious than this.

[Forever Diamond]

If Rangers newco don't get admitted to SPL , Dundee will be promoted to SPL, Airdrie Utd to DIV 1.

Rangers could buy Airdrie Utd from Jim Ballantyne and go into Div 1, and possibly one year away from SPL.

This has been talked about before,and as silly as it sounds it is a big possibility that it may happen...if not Airdrie,then someone like Cowdenbeath.If the vote to get into the SPL fails,and they find the only way in is starting in division 3,i fear this is when we may well see them go after another club.

As mentioned in a thread earlier,they have not officially changed the name yet,and are still known as sevco.So they could be waiting for this to see if they need to rename another club as The Rangers football club.

Edited June 15, 2012 by Forever Diamond