Lets All Laugh At Rangers Thread

[CityDave]

I wouldn't agree with that. Aberdeen have done well but I don't think they've been anything more than a solid B+ Player in a one team league.

You're right when you say though that a great team can be put together on a shoe-string budget. But that method almost always ends in failure so it would be a risky strategy for Rangers. And, despite all McInnes has done, he's still failed too, if we're talking credible title challenges.

I don't think Celtic have many exceptional players playing for them either, just a few slightly better than Aberdeen, ourselves and Dundee Utd. Over a larger squad of players it makes a massive difference during a season, indeed Aberdeen have done very well to only be 3 points behind this far into the season. Thing is what Aberdeen have done thus far and its a main reason why Inverness have been pushing for a top 3 place is that both teams function well as a unit, its the right blend of the players in the team and the good team moral.

You can have better players in a team but you need to get them working together as a team consistently, this is why we know now the Ally McCoist team flattered to deceive in the lower leagues up until they reached opposition in the Championship who were less forgiving.

Your last point I don't think McInnes has ever thought about challenging Celtic for the title, I would guess he would simply be looking for an improvement over last season and make sure of second. Where Aberdeen are now is down to that improvement, sure fans will look at things differently. What different clubs regard as success is relative to that particular club, you can't take the goals and standards of Rangers or Celtic and apply them to other teams, its not realistic.

[Myview]

8mileBU... whatever respect anyone has for Hearts achievements since administration especially this season I have double. However let's clarify something you say Hearts have won the championship with players who predominately come through the system. You may be surprised to know that it is common for them to play with only one ex academy player in the team. But hey congratulations on your season.

[Myview]

Yes that Scott Brown. Doesn't make it right. Delia and Brown have already said it was not appropriate. It was an example that footballers can be more difficult to manage than other top sports people. As I said I was not getting at Delia as I agree with his principles.

[Myview]

Now I totally agree with these comments. Just saying academies are not producing enough young players and that includes Hearts. Lots of fans think that Hearts players have come through their academy from a young age. However I repeat a brilliant season in the Championship. I'm sure Rangers fans wish Queen Anne was a Rangers fan!

[Pete's Frontier]

Now I totally agree with these comments. Just saying academies are not producing enough young players and that includes Hearts. Lots of fans think that Hearts players have come through their academy from a young age. However I repeat a brilliant season in the Championship. I'm sure Rangers fans wish Queen Anne was a Rangers fan!

The reason they've done well is that Levein got in seasoned proven guys he knew would do a job, added to the decent youths. If Hearts had been liquidated, like Rangers, Mrs Budge wouldn't be there. No similarity.

[Myview]

The reason they've done well is that Levein got in seasoned proven guys he knew would do a job, added to the decent youths. If Hearts had been liquidated, like Rangers, Mrs Budge wouldn't be there. No similarity.

Yes that's one of the reasons. Neilson and players of course deserve praise as well. Queen Anne comment just a little joke! But hey she deserves praise as well!

[Pete's Frontier]

Yes that's one of the reasons. Neilson and players of course deserve praise as well. Queen Anne comment just a little joke! But hey she deserves praise as well!

What I've heard Levein controls the whole gig, Robbie Caveman is just a prop.

[Myview]

He will be controlling a lot behind the scenes but to fair Robbie is coming across as a respected coach. 8.30am starts and double and treble sessions. Fans have been wanting players to train/ coach like that for years.

[CityDave]

He will be controlling a lot behind the scenes but to fair Robbie is coming across as a respected coach. 8.30am starts and double and treble sessions. Fans have been wanting players to train/ coach like that for years.

This is how it is set up Robbie is the coach and can focus entirely on that aspect of the job, whereas Craig Levine who is a very hands on type of person can get involved more in the administrative side, finances and work along with the board and can leave the majority of the coaching up to RN. It looks like a good set up on the playing side and I think it works because of the personalities involved.

[bennett]

Tbf hearts are a well organised team, plenty of emphasis is placed on fitness and they play to a good game plan, maybe not as good a footballing side as hibs or qots but they get the job done. Also you can't argue with their record this season.

Only thing I don't like is their almost celticminded win at costs attitude.

[thepundit]

Kevin Thomson - 2 mil (A good signing that had value in terms of the player Thomson was at the time and which ultimately got value back as he went to Middlesbrough for the same price)

DaMarcus Beasley - .7 mil (A relatively negligible amount of money and one that was largely repaid, even if he was injured a lot. His performance away to Lyon alone probably brought that back)

Carlos Cuellar - 2.37 mil (A good signing and sold on for profit - something that Scottish clubs should do, as Celtic have done with players in recent years, it remains to be seen what would happen if Rangers did it on a regular basis. If I remember right Cuellar was one of the few that was sold on for a profit like that, and it didn't go down well)

Lee McCulloch - 2.25 mil (Every penny well-spent, I'm sure everyone will agree)

Steven Whittaker - 2 mil (see Thomson regarding his stature at the time, can't say much for the fee he brought in since he left after liquidation)

Steven Naismith - 1.9 mil (the same, though I'd say he was better on the pitch than Whittaker)

Daniel Cousin - 1.1 mil (From what I recall he probably falls into the Beasley camp in that his European performances probably paid for that - but this isn't something Rangers are going to be able to get anything out of in the next what, three years at best? five years even for the CL?)

And since they only total 10 million, the shite he spent money on in 2008, since the job to rebuild the team after Le Guen got hounded out for not delivering instant success:

Andy Webster - .45 mil (What an odd situation that was)

Kenny Miller - 2 mil (Probably paid that back, although again, no re-sell value)

Andrius Velicka - 1 mil ( )

Kyle Lafferty - 3.25 mil ( :lol: :lol:)

Madjid Bougherra - 2.5 mil (a Cuellar replacement who probably could have been sold on like he was, there was some good had from him signing)

Pedro Mendes - 3 mil (3 mil? really?)

Steven Davis - 3 mil (was good, and could easily have commanded that and more back in transfers but for liquidation, think he falls under just being a product of a different time, a thought we'll return to later)

Maurice Edu - 2.6 mil (I remember when this signing happened, there was unrest outside Ibrox over... something, it was before a game then this guy gets wheeled ut and they all shut up. Money well spent, indeed).

Now in fairness, around 11.5 million of that second lot was funded by the sales of Cuellar and Cousin (he for 3.5 million as a 31 year old, somehow) and it's important to remember that there was some level of involvement in the Champions League from Rangers throughout that time, but all this does is reinforce that this is completely non-existent right now. The one player Rangers had with any sellable value was Lewis Macleod, who was out the door at the first opportunity. Potentially to keep the wolves from the door for another week. I've no doubt if Rangers were any more stable at the time they would have kept him, but they didn't. There's going to be no European income from several years, and getting to the Champions League is going to be harder than ever for all Scottish clubs.

Rangers need, for their own sake, to return to some level of success. Throwing money at the team to make this happen, as was the case in the past, is not only completely unfeasible now owing to the completely different circumstances from then and now but is completely impossible in Scottish football. The money that you want and that I've no doubt countless others want in increasingly unrealistic amounts, cannot exist. There will need to be an initial investment of some sort, of course, but to rely on this as a means of instantly improving the team on the park, and then the standing of the club, misses the point of where investment is actually required so spectacularly I can't imagine any Rangers fan has ever actually been able to understand what happened to Rangers over the past twenty years. They spent money they didn't have, on maintaining the team in a way that wasn't possible, to appease a fanbase out of touch with reality (and in comparing the reaction to impending doom of Rangers and Hearts fans, a largely apathetic fanbase), and it fucked them.

If I was Dave King, or someone with a better tax record or illusion of trustworthiness that didn't see my millions stand idly by while a clown car of charlatans rolled up to drain the club he loved so dearly I would sit at a press conference and say the things that would happen while I was in that position. Think Fergus McCann, only with more bored contempt for the people he was addressing. The thing that needs to happen for Rangers, that would be best for Rangers and best for Scottish footballers as far as a club with such resources should be providing Scotland with more than it has and does, is for them to be ruled with a completely non-Rangers man. A man who can see past all the bluster and shite about rightful places, about what they deserve and say, no. It can't happen. This is how to be successful, this is what we're going to do, and if you care about this club as much as you say you do you'll shut up and deal with it.

This would have the added bonus of possibly driving out some knuckle dragging hangers-on of its own doing, rather than having me needing to say "and if you start singing about ******s during a game I'm pulling the team off the park myself," but I digress.

We've seen various clubs the world over survive financial hardships of different sizes and types, hell we've seen how to do it properly in our own country. Yet this doesn't seem to be the most pressing thing that Rangers fans want, or think they need. And to return to the topic of this thread, that's quite funny, since I don't have any emotional investment in it.

Some fair points, and obviously a well researched post which you've put time and effort into so well played for that.

So Walter spent £30m in 2007/2008 and built a very good team (including free signings like Darcheville, Neil Alexander and probably his best signing Davie Weir), resulting in dominance at the top of Scottish football, Champions League money and of course a UEFA Cup final. Add to that the fact he brought in £9m for Alan Hutton, £8m for Cuellar and £3.5 for Daniel Cousin the initial decision to give Walter money proved a very sound investment indeed. (And had the club not lost a lot of players in 2012, a lot of people who did well for Walter would have brought in more profit such as McGregor and Steven Naismith for example)

I agree due to Rangers' current circumstances they can't spend that type of money but, given the situation is similar to what was required when Le Guen left, the coach is going to need some money to spend. And £5m should not be out of the question.

I don't think Celtic have many exceptional players playing for them either, just a few slightly better than Aberdeen, ourselves and Dundee Utd. Over a larger squad of players it makes a massive difference during a season, indeed Aberdeen have done very well to only be 3 points behind this far into the season. Thing is what Aberdeen have done thus far and its a main reason why Inverness have been pushing for a top 3 place is that both teams function well as a unit, its the right blend of the players in the team and the good team moral.

You can have better players in a team but you need to get them working together as a team consistently, this is why we know now the Ally McCoist team flattered to deceive in the lower leagues up until they reached opposition in the Championship who were less forgiving.

Your last point I don't think McInnes has ever thought about challenging Celtic for the title, I would guess he would simply be looking for an improvement over last season and make sure of second. Where Aberdeen are now is down to that improvement, sure fans will look at things differently. What different clubs regard as success is relative to that particular club, you can't take the goals and standards of Rangers or Celtic and apply them to other teams, its not realistic.

I don't think McInnes believed for a second Aberdeen's title challenge was credible, nor do I believe that was the aim he had set for himself. I was merely responding to your claim he had turned Aberdeen into "genuine title challengers".

The gap between Celtic and the other teams has definitely reduced but it's still a fairly comfortable one. I do believe, though, that Rangers can bridge that gap closer than any other team within a short amount of time. If they build correctly and get the right mix of players to operate efficiently as a unit it'll stand them in good stead to finish 2nd. Then, if they build upon even that further they'll hopefully gradually have a team capable of a realistic challenge for 1st place by the summer of 2018 or 2019.

[FinnesTON]

It's true. I'd also have said, on the basis of a fairly superficial glance that McCall had been great for Motherwell. Those that take a far deeper interest however, are able to provide a more detailed, nuanced and accurate picture. Something similar happened when Gordon Chisholm's reputation soared with us, while many Queens supporters knew him as the limited dud he's since proved himself to be. I'm interested in the bit about McCall valuing a relaxed, happy camp, over a disciplined, focused one. It sounds exactly link the type of criticism that was levelled at McCoist. I'd have thought that a complete change in that direction was needed. It'll be interesting to see how McCall does if he gets a decent run at the job.

Did the previous entity not try that with Le Guen and the players went in a huff since then was there not one of their imports recently (think it was Faure) in an interview made light of the extra chips and sauces and the short periods of training. That was when they were a plodding dinosaur now they are celebrating draws against part timers at Mordor.

[Myview]

Robbie Neilson def has had it easier to put over his methods to young players than to overpaid and internationals players. But hey ho he did it!

[CityDave]

I don't think McInnes believed for a second Aberdeen's title challenge was credible, nor do I believe that was the aim he had set for himself. I was merely responding to your claim he had turned Aberdeen into "genuine title challengers".

The gap between Celtic and the other teams has definitely reduced but it's still a fairly comfortable one. I do believe, though, that Rangers can bridge that gap closer than any other team within a short amount of time. If they build correctly and get the right mix of players to operate efficiently as a unit it'll stand them in good stead to finish 2nd. Then, if they build upon even that further they'll hopefully gradually have a team capable of a realistic challenge for 1st place by the summer of 2018 or 2019.

I think they are, but only as a result of their improvement this season and also because Celtic keep slipping up. Celtic just can't shake them off, its actually quite funny considering how most people thought this Premiership would be all done and dusted by the end of January back at the start of the season. Aberdeen have sort of had this situation put upon them rather than deliberately setting their sights at beating Celtic. Aberdeen just do their own thing just like we do, its no pressure other than to be better than last season.

I agree with your 2nd paragraph. Though I think Celtic will get stronger under RD over the next few seasons, they won't stand still and when you go up they will be sounding alarm bells all over the place, their supporters really do fear a strong Rangers and their players will have to have a lot more motivation. I don't think Rangers in the first couple of seasons will have as much pressure to succeed in beating Celtic as Celtic will have to stay ahead.

[FinnesTON]

Some fair points, and obviously a well researched post which you've put time and effort into so well played for that.

So Walter spent £30m in 2007/2008 and built a very good team (including free signings like Darcheville, Neil Alexander and probably his best signing Davie Weir), resulting in dominance at the top of Scottish football, Champions League money and of course a UEFA Cup final. Add to that the fact he brought in £9m for Alan Hutton, £8m for Cuellar and £3.5 for Daniel Cousin the initial decision to give Walter money proved a very sound investment indeed. (And had the club not lost a lot of players in 2012, a lot of people who did well for Walter would have brought in more profit such as McGregor and Steven Naismith for example)

I agree due to Rangers' current circumstances they can't spend that type of money but, given the situation is similar to what was required when Le Guen left, the coach is going to need some money to spend. And £5m should not be out of the question.

I don't think McInnes believed for a second Aberdeen's title challenge was credible, nor do I believe that was the aim he had set for himself. I was merely responding to your claim he had turned Aberdeen into "genuine title challengers".

The gap between Celtic and the other teams has definitely reduced but it's still a fairly comfortable one. I do believe, though, that Rangers can bridge that gap closer than any other team within a short amount of time. If they build correctly and get the right mix of players to operate efficiently as a unit it'll stand them in good stead to finish 2nd. Then, if they build upon even that further they'll hopefully gradually have a team capable of a realistic challenge for 1st place by the summer of 2018 or 2019.

Doesn't matter a fook what Walter spent, it was someone elses money and when that well dried you went defunct.

You are now playing the part of a pish stained jakey who is downing White Lightening and pretending he's quaff presseco from a crystal flute.

Can't believe after blowing over £70 million to extract yourselves from the uber diddy team leagues and broke you want to repeat the same scenario again and again. With whose money ?

As for 2018 or 19 it won't be Sevco5088 it will be Sevco5090 by that time if you continually squander money, DK hasn't put one penny in or announced anything yet here we go on another Ricardo Montablan Fantasy Island episode.

[Myview]

I think they are, but only as a result of their improvement this season and also because Celtic keep slipping up. Celtic just can't shake them off, its actually quite funny considering how most people thought this Premiership would be all done and dusted by the end of January back at the start of the season. Aberdeen have sort of had this situation put upon them rather than deliberately setting their sights at beating Celtic. Aberdeen just do their own thing just like we do, its no pressure other than to be better than last season.

I agree with your 2nd paragraph. Though I think Celtic will get stronger under RD over the next few seasons, they won't stand still and when you go up they will be sounding alarm bells all over the place, their supporters really do fear a strong Rangers and their players will have to have a lot more motivation. I don't think Rangers in the first couple of seasons will have as much pressure to succeed in beating Celtic as Celtic will have to stay ahead.

Agreed Celtic will be under more pressure to stay ahead. I'm sorry I just can't see a team over 36 matches being ahead of Celtic. However a good attempt by Aberdeen. The recent signings of GMS and Armstrong came at the right time to kick Celtic on

[Myview]

From memory forgetting what Walter Smith spent in 2007/2008. Before Craig Whyte it is said that he did not pay 9m in tax and NI to HMRC. Smith had after selling Ferguson and co .. Big earners ....got Rangers debt down to 14m and had won 6 trophies out of 8. £14m was well within Rangers control. Taking into account assets.. Players Ibrox Murray Park. etc.

[CityDave]

Agreed Celtic will be under more pressure to stay ahead. I'm sorry I just can't see a team over 36 matches being ahead of Celtic. However a good attempt by Aberdeen. The recent signings of GMS and Armstrong came at the right time to kick Celtic on

That's fair enough I doubt many would disagree with that and quite possibly being in a position to push Celtic is as good as it gets for Aberdeen, the Dons dropped 2 points today so if Celtic beat Dundee Utd again they will go 5 points clear.

Thing is regardless of how well Aberdeen can play, Celtic when they are on it will just destroy anyone at will. Problem is Celtic still drop silly points, we play them in a couple of weeks so hopefully this happens again.

I think Celtic will win today, it looks like Dundee Utd's bubble has well and truly burst after losing GMS and Armstrong in January I don't think they have won a game since, they don't look the happiest.

[FinnesTON]

From memory forgetting what Walter Smith spent in 2007/2008. Before Craig Whyte it is said that he did not pay 9m in tax and NI to HMRC. Smith had after selling Ferguson and co .. Big earners ....got Rangers debt down to 14m and had won 6 trophies out of 8. £14m was well within Rangers control. Taking into account assets.. Players Ibrox Murray Park. etc.

More revisionist pish it doesn't matter what you did then, where is the money coming from and you had a well established set up thats not now. Feck lets ignore whether you have the money to cover the wages and tax bill for the month when you can contemplate running out to the CL music, no wonder you're a laughing stock.

[CityDave]

More revisionist pish it doesn't matter what you did then, where is the money coming from and you had a well established set up thats not now. Feck lets ignore whether you have the money to cover the wages and tax bill for the month when you can contemplate running out to the CL music, no wonder you're a laughing stock.

This is true, once in debt any spending done is using someone else's money.

Something that has puzzled me about the whole Rangers thing regarding finances over the last 2 years is why not one group that has been in charge at the club has never approached a bank for financial assistance and instead have gone begging to the business world equivalent of loan sharks?.

I would if I was a Rangers supporter be very concerned at what might be concealed in the books and if this is affecting the so called winds of change that don't seem to be blowing through Ibrox at all.