North Korea ...again

[Jacksgranda]

25 minutes ago, peasy23 said:

 

"holed up", eh?

[welshbairn]

One thing I've learnt is that North Korean dissident sources in South Korea are as reliable as the Kuwaiti Ambassador in Washington's daughter. 

[Guest JTS98]

33 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

One thing I've learnt is that North Korean dissident sources in South Korea are as reliable as the Kuwaiti Ambassador in Washington's daughter. 

It depends on the context.

I worked with groups of North Korean defectors in Seoul. Some of them had provided very valuable information to the South in terms of day-to-day living in North Korea and were able to confirm or rubbish rumours about quality of life changes, state of the black market, diet, gossip in the country etc.

The problem is that some of them have money and influence waved at them and are more or less induced to exaggerate their knowledge or just make stuff up to seem more valuable.  The ones that exaggerate what they know are generally despised by the rest, who understand that it damages their perceived integrity overall.

Someone who was living in dirt poverty in Chongjin but claims to have any knowledge of political goings on in Pyongyang, or connections who do, for example, is probably at it.

Some of these people had incredible stories about how they got out. Truly remarkable stuff. A mate of mine is working on a book with two of them at the moment. Made it across the Gobi Desert.

Edited May 2, 2020 by JTS98

[bendan]

41 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

One thing I've learnt is that North Korean dissident sources in South Korea are as reliable as the Kuwaiti Ambassador in Washington's daughter. 

There was a good article about this in The Guardian a while back.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/13/why-do-north-korean-defector-testimonies-so-often-fall-apart

[Highland Capital]

Just out of interest, what do regular North Koreans know about the outside world?  I remember watching a BBC documentary a while ago about the North and in the school the reporter found that the students had never heard of Nelson Mandela, nor had known that men had walked on the moon.  Is that true for the most of all regular North Koreans?

[Guest JTS98]

12 minutes ago, Highland Capital said:

Just out of interest, what do regular North Koreans know about the outside world?  I remember watching a BBC documentary a while ago about the North and in the school the reporter found that the students had never heard of Nelson Mandela, nor had known that men had walked on the moon.  Is that true for the most of all regular North Koreans?

It's a complicated question. Depends on what kind of North Korean you are.

I knew a guy who told me that he'd followed the 2006 and 2010 World Cups no problem while living in North Korea, and another guy who had a pretty good knowledge of Hollywood films which he could buy on the black market.

It's hard to know for sure, but it seems that some have more access to information than others, and some work pretty hard to get more access to information than others. A complicating factor is that there can be an air of suspicion around a North Korean who seemed to know too much.

One thing that came across repeatedly was that while North Koreans may lack a lot of knowledge of the outside world, it's not the case that they simply all believe what their government tells them. They're as cynical about their government as anywhere else by the sounds of it. You just don't go around shouting about it.

More than once I heard translated versions of jokes about the Kims, the North Korean government, or life in general.

Did hear stories about people being told as kids that if they didn't behave they'd be sent to the South etc and that being seen as a threat. But that view doesn't seem to last into adulthood.

Edited May 2, 2020 by JTS98

[bendan]

1 hour ago, Highland Capital said:

Just out of interest, what do regular North Koreans know about the outside world?  I remember watching a BBC documentary a while ago about the North and in the school the reporter found that the students had never heard of Nelson Mandela, nor had known that men had walked on the moon.  Is that true for the most of all regular North Koreans?

There was a general lack of information available when I was there: not many books, newspapers or computers, not much on TV or radio, so people just weren't exposed to information in the same way we are. The news tended to focus on negative stories in the little time spent on foreign news, and textbooks sometimes had negative, or downright false, information about other countries.

It was possible to pick up some foreign stuff on the radio, though, and as JTS98 said, there were videos/DVDs/CDs available on the black market or passed around. I'd imagine people nowadays know a lot more than they did at the turn of the century, but even then people weren't as poorly informed or as brainwashed  as portrayed.

[invergowrie arab]

8 hours ago, JTS98 said:

It depends on the context.

I worked with groups of North Korean defectors in Seoul. Some of them had provided very valuable information to the South in terms of day-to-day living in North Korea and were able to confirm or rubbish rumours about quality of life changes, state of the black market, diet, gossip in the country etc.

The problem is that some of them have money and influence waved at them and are more or less induced to exaggerate their knowledge or just make stuff up to seem more valuable.  The ones that exaggerate what they know are generally despised by the rest, who understand that it damages their perceived integrity overall.

Someone who was living in dirt poverty in Chongjin but claims to have any knowledge of political goings on in Pyongyang, or connections who do, for example, is probably at it.

Some of these people had incredible stories about how they got out. Truly remarkable stuff. A mate of mine is working on a book with two of them at the moment. Made it across the Gobi Desert.

That is incredible to get from North Korea to South Korea via the Gobi desert 

[Granny Danger]

Just now, invergowrie arab said:

That is incredible to get from North Korea to South Korea via the Gobi desert 

Scenic route m9.

[Guest JTS98]

2 hours ago, invergowrie arab said:

That is incredible to get from North Korea to South Korea via the Gobi desert 

It's the only way, really.

Getting across the North - South border is very close to impossible. High chance of being shot. For North Koreans from most parts of the country it makes a lot more sense to just bribe or swim your way over to the river to China.

Once there you've got a new problem. The Chinese will arrest you and send you back if they catch you. The South Koreans aren't allowed to receive North Korean defectors in China.

So, defectors often view their best shot at getting to the South as being to get into China then walk or somehow propel themselves to Mongolia. If they can reach the South Korean embassy there, they are safe.

[Theroadlesstravelled]

13 hours ago, peasy23 said:

 

Not a looker among them.

[bendan]

11 hours ago, invergowrie arab said:

That is incredible to get from North Korea to South Korea via the Gobi desert 

Some legitimate businesses in north Korea used to carry dollars in cash in suitcases to Mongolia because no banks would accept wire transfers from North Korea due to US sanctions. This was before the more widespread sanctions of today - not sure there's any business you could do without falling foul of current sanctions.

[welshbairn]

Getting itchy trigger fingers on the border, sign of Northern instability?

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/03/asia/north-korea-gunfire-south-dmz-intl/index.html

Edited May 3, 2020 by welshbairn

[Sergeant Wilson]

21 hours ago, JTS98 said:

 

Someone who was living in dirt poverty in Chongjin but claims to have any knowledge of political goings on in Pyongyang, or connections who do, for example, is probably at it.

Some of these people had incredible stories about how they got out. Truly remarkable stuff. A mate of mine is working on a book with two of them at the moment. Made it across the Gobi Desert.

Darling: Are you sure this is what you saw Blackadder?

Blackadder: Absolutely. I mean there may have been a few more armament
factories, and [looks sideways at George] not quite as
many elephants, but…

[Jacksgranda]

3 hours ago, welshbairn said:

Getting itchy trigger fingers on the border, sign of Northern instability?

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/03/asia/north-korea-gunfire-south-dmz-intl/index.html

"It is not known what caused this exchange of fire."

My first thought was guns, but what do I know.

[Fullerene]

17 hours ago, invergowrie arab said:

That is incredible to get from North Korea to South Korea via the Gobi desert 

There are several books written by defectors.   "The girl with seven names" is a great book.

[doulikefish]

Some Boi

 

 

[tamthebam]

"You fell for the oldest trick in the book, Comrade Hyung, and now it's the death by artillery for you.. MWAH HAH HAH.."

[NotThePars]

"News of my death are greatly exaggerated, comrade"

[Tony Ferrino]

If North Korea is a tit w**k, what is south?