Orange Walk / Scottish Cricket thread

[speckled tangerine]

Read the proclamation of the Irish Republic. Educate yourself.

I can't believe that Linfield eejit used the term 'ethnic cleansing'

Literally pishing myself. True colours always shine through eh? My Team: Camelon Juniors

Didn't the Republic give up the claim on the six counties as part of the Good Friday Agreement?

[Benjamin_Nevis]

MUSSUS BUNFIELD

What is this Mussus Bunfield thing all about? Seen it mentioned a few times in the thread.

[Shuggie_Murray7]

What is this Mussus Bunfield thing all about? Seen it mentioned a few times in the thread.

[Dr Koop]

This Daily Telegraph article provides context on what was being referred to:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3610190/So-now-another-estate-has-been-cleansed-of-Protestants.html

That should be 'Daily Telegraph context' - which also extends to wetting its knickers and reviewing movies about Ireland none of its reviewers have watched.

[Dr Koop]

That is brilliant.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOpYxIq1h8g

[LongTimeLurker]

This is not a personal thing against you, it was just that your contributions were, as i have alluded to, consistently in one way or another, justifying the public demonstrations of "celebrations" IN 2013 IN SCOTLAND. My point(s) is that it is not carrying on an historic tradition based on events from OVER 300 YEARS AGO, but, in 2013, it is a vulgar display of "rangers-ism".

We of course are not going to be hearing anything about a 700 year old battle next summer in the run up to the referendum, because that would be backward and bigoted after all. Another thing to bear in mind maybe is that Scotland had much the same conflicts going on internally that the island of Ireland did in the late 17th century and there were battles like Killiecrankie and Dunkeld that happened in Scotland at around the same time as the Boyne.

The main difference was that the pro-Glorious Revolution forces didn't need any outside help from William of Orange to come out on top in a Scottish context. The traditions of the Covenanters who won that conflict have been suppressed to a large extent by the powers that be and were largely replaced by all the kilts and bagpipes kitsch and Highland landscape fetishism of the likes of Sir Walter Scott as the underpinning of Scottish identity during the Victorian era to the extent that people have even started to believe that Culloden was a Scotland vs England thing.

One of the reasons a lot of people find modern Scottish nationalism difficult to take seriously is the way that it often all seems to revolve around a false cultural identity of pseudo-Jacobitism that was cynically promoted by Victorian era Tories to make Scotland fit in better with the imperial project of the 19th century. Hence why the vulgar and cringeworthy displays of the Tartan Army are a Scottishness that many people find it very difficult to identify with.

[parsforlife]

We of course are not going to be hearing anything about a 700 year old battle next summer in the run up to the referendum, because that would be backward and bigoted after all. Another thing to bear in mind maybe is that Scotland had much the same conflicts going on internally that the island of Ireland did in the late 17th century and there were battles like Killiecrankie and Dunkeld that happened in Scotland at around the same time as the Boyne.

The main difference was that the pro-Glorious Revolution forces didn't need any outside help from William of Orange to come out on top in a Scottish context. The traditions of the Covenanters who won that conflict have been suppressed to a large extent by the powers that be and were largely replaced by all the kilts and bagpipes kitsch and Highland landscape fetishism of the likes of Sir Walter Scott as the underpinning of Scottish identity during the Victorian era to the extent that people have even started to believe that Culloden was a Scotland vs England thing.

One of the reasons a lot of people find modern Scottish nationalism difficult to take seriously is the way that it often all seems to revolve around a false cultural identity of pseudo-Jacobitism that was cynically promoted by Victorian era Tories to make Scotland fit in better with the imperial project of the 19th century. Hence why the vulgar and cringeworthy displays of the Tartan Army are a Scottishness that many people find it very difficult to identify with.

I don't know why your trying to bring Scottish nationalism into this, there is an entire tedious thread dedicated to it, this is about mocking hypocritical bigots. But don't worry about that rule Britannia eh.

[LongTimeLurker]

Who the hypocrictical bigots are is all in the eye of the beholder.

[hearthammer]

I fully accept your views & bow to your superior historical knowledge, Whilst i agree that there is likely to be an uber-nationalistic approach to the marking of the 1314 battle, it will be done so in Scotland alone. It may turn out to be used as a crass propaganda weapon or as a means of displaying "Scottishness" by some, but it will be confined to this country alone.

It will not be "celebrated" in Northern Ireland or anywhere else for that matter. I believe that the point i have been trying to get through to my "naranja" friend is that i see no need for another country to co-celebrate events that are wholly relevant in Scotland and nowhere else. The age old "traditions" spouted about annually to justify the "marching" are done so through less than tenuous historical outdated (in 2013 ??) connections. As i have previously stated, in my opinion, "it is a vulgar display of "rangers-ism".

Im going to write to the Mayor of Pamplona to see if Scotland can twin with them & we can have our own "bull run" through certain areas of Glasgow & beyond next year during the "marching" season (canny wait for the Youtube videos). Using the core arguments for justification, i'm sure you will have no problem with this as we are merely embracing the cultural celebrations of our brethern. The similar tenuous connections here are that i, and many others in Scotland, drink San Miguel despite the fact that there are many other credible Scottish alternatives. Vienen de los toros

[The_Kincardine]

I apologise if you've been up all night without sleep attempting to formulate a response of sorts. Can i suggest that you actually READ the points i have made in relation to the numerous posts you have made in this forum. This is not a personal thing against you, it was just that your contributions were, as i have alluded to, consistently in one way or another, justifying the public demonstrations of "celebrations" IN 2013 IN SCOTLAND. My point(s) is that it is not carrying on an historic tradition based on events from OVER 300 YEARS AGO, but, in 2013, it is a vulgar display of "rangers-ism".

Nothing to do with Rangers and silly for you to suggest that. The guys and girls are celebrating the establishment of parliamentary democracy in Britain. This is a good thing and who are you to gainsay it?

[~~~]

The guys and girls are celebrating the establishment of parliamentary democracy in Britain.

You and I both know that is a load of shite

[Audaces Fortuna Juvat]

Read the proclamation of the Irish Republic. Educate yourself.

I can't believe that Linfield eejit used the term 'ethnic cleansing'

Literally pishing myself. True colours always shine through eh? My Team: Camelon Juniors

The voice of reason returns, complete with lots of jolly laughter.

I've read more Irish history than most and, as pointed out by another poster, the articles of the Good Friday Agreement.

What other term would you use for the systematic removal of people from an area such as the Torrens estate? And before anyone posts, I am well aware it happens on both sides.

True colours do shine through, I selected my local team, Camelon Juniors, because there is no Linfield option when you select a team. Eejit.

Now go see about that incontinence problem.

[Baxter Parp]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4SJgeHq7Q8

[Baxter Parp]

Who the hypocrictical bigots are is all in the eye of the beholder.

No it's not.

[LongTimeLurker]

The dictionary definition of bigotry revolves around holding a particular viewpoint to an unreasonable extent, which is something that people from a wide variety of different backgrounds can be prone to, while others from the same backgrounds are more easy going and flexible. In Scotland bigotry tends to be understood a wee bit differently as being a kind of tribal attribute characteristic of certain groups of people, who don't conform to the prevailing consensus on certain social issues which are often arrived at on the basis of what's best for the powers that be in political terms.

In Scotland that was usually the Labour party in recent decades, who badly needed the working class RC vote and made certain modifications to normal socialist principles to curry favour with what would normally be their natural ideological enemies within the RC hierarchy, as a result. The Tories were also happy to go along with this because they saw the RC church as a bulwark against schemie Bolsheviks like Tommy Sheridan and generally liked keeping the plebs socially divided.

That made the LOL public enemy number one when they pointed out certain awkward truths on issues like education such as sending children to the same schools saves a lot of money and reduces the level of division. End result is it's socially acceptable to go after Orangemen by spewing all kinds of bile and peddling very crude stereotypes to an extent that arguably fits the dictionary definition of bigotry, when in reality the LOL are by no means the only ones who are complicit in keeping the divide going from generation to generation.

[Baxter Parp]

The LOL are crude stereotypes. Ta-dah.

[Saor Alba]

The Tories were also happy to go along with this because they saw the RC church as a bulwark against schemie Bolsheviks like Tommy Sheridan and generally liked keeping the plebs socially divided.

The boys on here will be tarring and feathering you for that anti-semitic comment when they read it. Bolshevikism began as a small movement guided by the teachings of German-Jewish social philosopher Karl Marx. It grew quickly and everyone who knows history knows what came afterwards.

[ICTChris]

The boys on here will be tarring and feathering you for that anti-semitic comment when they read it. Bolshevikism began as a small movement guided by the teachings of German-Jewish social philosopher Karl Marx. It grew quickly and everyone who knows history knows what came afterwards.

You are a cretin.

[LongTimeLurker]

The LOL are crude stereotypes. Ta-dah.

Not in my experience. People should be judged as individuals, in my opinion, and stereotyping is something that is best avoided.

Edited July 19, 2013 by LongTimeLurker

[Saor Alba]

I am a cretin.

According to this Israeli online news article - You are yes.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3342999,00.html

Stalin's Jews

We mustn't forget that some of greatest murderers of modern times were Jewish

Here's a particularly forlorn historical date: Almost 90 years ago, between the 19th and 20th of December 1917, in the midst of the Bolshevik revolution and civil war, Lenin signed a decree calling for the establishment of The All-Russian Extraordinary Commission for Combating Counter-Revolution and Sabotage, also known as Cheka.

Within a short period of time, Cheka became the largest and cruelest state security organization. Its organizational structure was changed every few years, as were its names: From Cheka to GPU, later to NKVD, and later to KGB.

We cannot know with certainty the number of deaths Cheka was responsible for in its various manifestations, but the number is surely at least 20 million, including victims of the forced collectivization, the hunger, large purges, expulsions, banishments, executions, and mass death at Gulags.

Whole population strata were eliminated: Independent farmers, ethnic minorities, members of the bourgeoisie, senior officers, intellectuals, artists, labor movement activists, "opposition members" who were defined completely randomly, and countless members of the Communist party itself.

In his new, highly praised book "The War of the World, "Historian Niall Ferguson writes that no revolution in the history of mankind devoured its children with the same unrestrained appetite as did the Soviet revolution. In his book on the Stalinist purges, Tel Aviv University's Dr. Igal Halfin writes that Stalinist violence was unique in that it was directed internally.

Lenin, Stalin, and their successors could not have carried out their deeds without wide-scale cooperation of disciplined "terror officials," cruel interrogators, snitches, executioners, guards, judges, perverts, and many bleeding hearts who were members of the progressive Western Left and were deceived by the Soviet regime of horror and even provided it with a kosher certificate.

All these things are well-known to some extent or another, even though the former Soviet Union's archives have not yet been fully opened to the public. But who knows about this? Within Russia itself, very few people have been brought to justice for their crimes in the NKVD's and KGB's service. The Russian public discourse today completely ignores the question of "How could it have happened to us?" As opposed to Eastern European nations, the Russians did not settle the score with their Stalinist past.

And us, the Jews? An Israeli student finishes high school without ever hearing the name "Genrikh Yagoda," the greatest Jewish murderer of the 20th Century, the GPU's deputy commander and the founder and commander of the NKVD. Yagoda diligently implemented Stalin's collectivization orders and is responsible for the deaths of at least 10 million people. His Jewish deputies established and managed the Gulag system. After Stalin no longer viewed him favorably, Yagoda was demoted and executed, and was replaced as chief hangman in 1936 by Yezhov, the "bloodthirsty dwarf."

Yezhov was not Jewish but was blessed with an active Jewish wife. In his Book "Stalin: Court of the Red Star", Jewish historian Sebag Montefiore writes that during the darkest period of terror, when the Communist killing machine worked in full force, Stalin was surrounded by beautiful, young Jewish women.

Stalin's close associates and loyalists included member of the Central Committee and Politburo Lazar Kaganovich. Montefiore characterizes him as the "first Stalinist" and adds that those starving to death in Ukraine, an unparalleled tragedy in the history of human kind aside from the Nazi horrors and Mao's terror in China, did not move Kaganovich.

Many Jews sold their soul to the devil of the Communist revolution and have blood on their hands for eternity. We'll mention just one more: Leonid Reichman, head of the NKVD's special department and the organization's chief interrogator, who was a particularly cruel sadist.

In 1934, according to published statistics, 38.5 percent of those holding the most senior posts in the Soviet security apparatuses were of Jewish origin. They too, of course, were gradually eliminated in the next purges. In a fascinating lecture at a Tel Aviv University convention this week, Dr. Halfin described the waves of soviet terror as a "carnival of mass murder," "fantasy of purges", and "essianism of evil." Turns out that Jews too, when they become captivated by messianic ideology, can become great murderers, among the greatest known by modern history.

The Jews active in official communist terror apparatuses (In the Soviet Union and abroad) and who at times led them, did not do this, obviously, as Jews, but rather, as Stalinists, communists, and "Soviet people." Therefore, we find it easy to ignore their origin and "play dumb": What do we have to do with them? But let's not forget them. My own view is different. I find it unacceptable that a person will be considered a member of the Jewish people when he does great things, but not considered part of our people when he does amazingly despicable things.

Even if we deny it, we cannot escape the Jewishness of "our hangmen," who served the Red Terror with loyalty and dedication from its establishment. After all, others will always remind us of their origin.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3342999,00.html

Edited July 19, 2013 by Saor Alba