Ad Lib Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 The point I was attempting to make was that it was said. This is not a madeup statement by the SNP. It makes little difference when or by whom, these statements will and probably should stick in peoples minds. There can be as many Acts and Laws put in place to protect these powers as you like but it wont change the feeling that they are not safe and untouchable. But you have no evidence that the Scottish Parliament's powers are under threat. None whatsoever. A comment by Wendy Alexander, who is no longer even an MSP and who is now twice removed from the leadership of the Scottish Labour Party, made six years ago before the Calman Commission is not evidence that there is any realistic or credible prospect of a single power currently exercised by the Scottish Parliament being returned to Westminster without the explicit consent of the majority of elected representatives of the Scottish people at Holyrood. I Never stated that she said powers back. Line in the sand was said. Again its hard to ignore this. You quoted it in response to me asking you to stop scaremongering about Westminster taking powers away from the Scottish Parliament. I'm pointing out to you that "saying no to more powers" is not the same as "taking powers away". Therefore it is both irrelevant and scaremongering to use the "line in the sand" quote as evidence Westminster will grab powers back. No stripping I will agree would be fatal for Scottish labour. But we all will have to wait and hope that labour can deliver more devoloution in the event of a No when they finally get back into power. will that be in a year, or the ellection after that or after that? You're still missing the point. That's a different issue. I AGREE WITH YOU that it is unlikely that the Scottish Parliament will receive significant further additional powers. To repeat, again, that is why I am voting Yes. Saying, however, that powers will be taken away, as both Donny Darko and you and many others have claimed will happen, is just flat out scaremongering and serves to undermine the more nuanced, more credible, narrative, that any new powers will be inadequate, rather than the tin foil hat myth that "WASTEMONSTER" wants to deprive Holyrood of all its powers in devolved areas. And in all of this diatribe, you've still singularly failed to name a single power you think a future UK Government would conceivably attempt to take back from Holyrood. How about I try looking a wee bit ahead and imagine the Scottish goverment getting full fiscal powers. Scotland starts to really thrive the way we all know it will and we start to outdo RUK on many levels. Ruk starts to get a little restless about it and so the Ruk government ...............and so on. If the UK Government eventually decides to give Scotland something close to full fiscal autonomy there is no realistic prospect whatsoever that those powers could credibly be rescinded, for exactly the same reasons that the existing powers of the Scottish Parliament could never credibly be rescinded. 1. Do you think Ruk will ever give a devolved Scotland full fiscal powers? 2. I'm thrilled that you can assure everyone that these powers are going nowhere because there is only two sets of sircumstances in which it could happen. I shall sleep tonight. 3. I get the impresion that you are someone who thinks only with their head. Do try to take into account that most of us think with heart and head. 1. No. Again, for f**k's sake. That's why I'm voting Yes. You are slower than a week in jail. 2. The whole point is that both routes require the consent of Holyrood, so they won't happen, and even if they do happen, it will be with the consent of the politicians we elected to Holyrood so legitimate. That's how democracy works. 3. I prefer not to let emotion get in the way of facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 ImageUploadedByPie & Bovril1399934276.131010.jpg So it seems like Douglas Alexander is to be given more of a role. I heard him on theradio this morning. Getting an easy ride to spout a load of guff about how great the NHS was united together and scored a house on the BT cliche bingo, "best of both worlds" "pooling resources". As somebody who spent their youth protesting outside Faslane I'm looking forward to his utter defense of the merit, worth and value of nuclear wepons. I guess your molars go out the window when you're a politican trying to climb the greasy pole. He's utterly desperate to be UK PM, as his attempted stab in the back of Brown shows, an utter creep and a devious character if you ask me. I really find him reprehensible. Joined the party in his teens and has done f**k all outside of politics. He was talking about how obsiously a sizeable minority, one way or the other, will be disaffected follwing the vote in September, but it was quite clear throughout he was talking about the yes side. Horrible man, I hope we do vote yes and leave his childhood dream of becoming UK PM in tatters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todders Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Cos Westminster has never nor would ever unilaterally strip powers from the Scottish parliament.... http://www.scottishenergynews.com/lords-axe-holyroods-power-over-scottish-renewables/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaven Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Cos Westminster has never nor would ever unilaterally strip powers from the Scottish parliament.... http://www.scottishenergynews.com/lords-axe-holyroods-power-over-scottish-renewables/ Dear Libby. As you only deal in Facts, can you find out for all of us how they managed to do as in above link? (Facts only please). I do like to hear that you will be voting Yes, I must admit that I am Very slow in coming round to believing that as a FACT. Thats my bag sorry. Now as for a week in the jail. I think I can speak for most people on here when I say that I think that a week in the jail would do you the world of good. How many Factual reasons does it take to be a Yes voter then Libby, and what are those FACTS? You should compile a Factsheet so we can all test ourselfes on wither we are voting for the right reasons. Don't you think it might be helpfull? Then we all will at last be able to understand how dumb we have been for just going with our gut. OPEN MY MIND...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 I met Alexander on Friday nigh. Spouting the usual Pish about nationalism and getting completely clamped by my Labour and yes voting mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Cos Westminster has never nor would ever unilaterally strip powers from the Scottish parliament.... http://www.scottishenergynews.com/lords-axe-holyroods-power-over-scottish-renewables/ *sigh* Except when you actually look at what they did, this isn't true. Energy is, ANYWAY, a reserved matter. Westminster gave aspects of administration of the old energy scheme of closure orders to the Scottish Government (not the Parliament). In removing the old scheme, they abolished not "the Scottish Government's power to make closure orders" but "closure orders" themselves. Or put more simply, Westminster did not, unilaterally or otherwise, strip powers from the Scottish Parliament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Most pleasing to see that the REAL project fear is out in force. Most pleasing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Most pleasing to see that the REAL project fear is out in force. Most pleasing. No one actually talks like that, do they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 No one actually talks like that, do they? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confidemus Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 ? You really are more simple than a Primary 1 maths test aren't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumper Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 In bold capital letters? Yes, the sort of mouth-breathing, finger-reading Daily Record readers the No camp relies on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todders Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 *sigh* Except when you actually look at what they did, this isn't true. Energy is, ANYWAY, a reserved matter. Westminster gave aspects of administration of the old energy scheme of closure orders to the Scottish Government (not the Parliament). In removing the old scheme, they abolished not "the Scottish Government's power to make closure orders" but "closure orders" themselves. Or put more simply, Westminster did not, unilaterally or otherwise, strip powers from the Scottish Parliament. Has the action resulted in the Scottish Government having a) More power b) Less power c) The same amount of power as before Sigh all you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaven Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 *sigh* Except when you actually look at what they did, this isn't true. Energy is, ANYWAY, a reserved matter. Westminster gave aspects of administration of the old energy scheme of closure orders to the Scottish Government (not the Parliament). In removing the old scheme, they abolished not "the Scottish Government's power to make closure orders" but "closure orders" themselves. Or put more simply, Westminster did not, unilaterally or otherwise, strip powers from the Scottish Parliament. At what point did they tell the goverment that they where going to do this? If by just removing a scheme they can abolish a devolved matter, is there any other schemes that they could abolish that would affect Scottish matters? And will they care to run it past them before doing it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confidemus Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 I'm hearing the orange lodge are planning a mass march against independence. Another gift for Yes then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaven Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 I'm hearing the orange lodge are planning a mass march against independence. Another gift for Yes then. Got to give them one last chance to wave the flag before its no more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Im 70-30 in thinking NO is gonna win this, but got me thinking about what would happen after a NO vote, I mean the Independence movement is hardly going to go away, after looking into it I feel very passionately about it now aswell whereas before it is something that never really bothered me one way or another, its all gonna kick off one way or another on the 19th September, will definitely be avoiding these boards though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burma Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 At what point did they tell the goverment that they where going to do this? If by just removing a scheme they can abolish a devolved matter, is there any other schemes that they could abolish that would affect Scottish matters? And will they care to run it past them before doing it? As Andrew Neil said: " Devolution, the Calman Commission, the Scotland Bill, the Edinburgh Agreement, all of this and more you have, is because Westminster parties are scared of the SNP. If you vote No you massively change the balance of power and they will not only give you nothing, but will probably take powers away from the Scottish Parliament." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 As Andrew Neil said: " Devolution, the Calman Commission, the Scotland Bill, the Edinburgh Agreement, all of this and more you have, is because Westminster parties are scared of the SNP. If you vote No you massively change the balance of power and they will not only give you nothing, but will probably take powers away from the Scottish Parliament." ^^^ REAL project fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burma Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 ^^^ REAL project fear. You do realise this is a quote from a Unionist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 No, it's a quote from Andrew Neil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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