The Famous Aberdeen - Season 2022/23

[Jacksgranda]

6 hours ago, Merkland Red said:

1. Does it matter who's the third biggest team?

2. Shouldn't all teams be striving to improve and not just accept what is "expected"?

 

It does to Hearts' & Hibs' fans...

[DukDukGoose]

12 minutes ago, tarapoa said:

Kilmarnock under Clarke had their best season in fifty years, ended up ahead of us on goal difference due to a last minute penalty against a Sevco side with nothing to play for, lost to the same Sevco side in both cups that we beat in both cups that season - and got their only ever win over us under McInnes largely due to Devlin's 5th minute red card at Pittodrie.

It was hardly chronic underachievement.

Motherwell seem quite cyclical - but can often benefit from being the most established top flight non-cheek club in the environs of Greater Glasgow and having a lot of local talent to choose from - them being ahead of us 2 seasons from 7, both by a bawhair, again is more equilibrium rather than underachievement.

Being ahead of Sevco twice in the top flight is rarely mentioned as a tick in the box for McInnes - but nobody else did it, and we spared Scottish football the ignominy of the phoenix club entering the top flight and it immediately being a cheek 1-2., despite a vast difference in wages. 

If you are expected to finish third (we were) then it's an underachievement. 

You won't find any argument from me regarding his performance in the first 4-5 years. Spoke to a colleague the last season we finished second and we said he's enough in the bank to have a season where we finish fourth and he stays in the job with no real pressure to go. 

We're on course for a third successive year in that position.

[BucksburnDandy]

I think in terms of league placings, folk have a point on McInnes. He has performed pretty well all things considered.

However, and this is not just McInnes, I started going to football in 1998. In two weeks time, St Johnstone or Livingston fans who started going around the same time as I did will watch their sides lift a second national trophy compared to our one. In the same time Hearts have won three and Hibs two.

I don't think it is over expectant from me in the slightest to expect to win more trophies than St Johnstone or Livingston. That isn't just on DM for sure, there are a lot of managers and board members to blame, but DM has missed a couple of golden opportunities. And I did expect more in domestic cups.

[AngusTheBull]

42 minutes ago, tarapoa said:

Kilmarnock under Clarke had their best season in fifty years, ended up ahead of us on goal difference due to a last minute penalty against a Sevco side with nothing to play for, lost to the same Sevco side in both cups that we beat in both cups that season - and got their only ever win over us under McInnes largely due to Devlin's 5th minute red card at Pittodrie.

The problem with this argument is you could say we only finished second ahead of Rangers by beating a Celtic side on the last day with nothing to play for other than seeing their rivals drop a place. Over the course of a season, I think it's unfair to put it down to one game like that. Agree with the rest of your post though

 

4 hours ago, coprolite said:

I think the (real) decline in our standard of football is overstated by the our fans who conflate the different periods looking back. I don't think we ever had a really strong midfield, defence and attack at the same time.  We are slowly getting worse but it's not like we were brilliant and now we're shite. We often ground out results and relied on individuals having good games rather than having any sort of tactics beyond "keep it tight". 

Prior to Lewis signing in particular, even when we had most elements of the team correct we'd be let down by whichever dubious goalkeeper we had at the time. I think when we had Ward in goal was probably the best overall team that we had, though the defence wasn't as good as the midfield and attack.

Even though, as you point out, the football wasn't always pretty then, I do think there is a world of difference between the football we played in a typical match then and now. We definitely haven't ever been able to replace the likes of McLean and the snake in midfield with anyone as comfortable on the ball as they were which has probably significantly contributed. 

[DukDukGoose]

12 minutes ago, AngusTheBull said:

The problem with this argument is you could say we only finished second ahead of Rangers by beating a Celtic side on the last day with nothing to play for other than seeing their rivals drop a place. Over the course of a season, I think it's unfair to put it down to one game like that. Agree with the rest of your post though

 

Prior to Lewis signing in particular, even when we had most elements of the team correct we'd be let down by whichever dubious goalkeeper we had at the time. I think when we had Ward in goal was probably the best overall team that we had, though the defence wasn't as good as the midfield and attack.

Even though, as you point out, the football wasn't always pretty then, I do think there is a world of difference between the football we played in a typical match then and now. We definitely haven't ever been able to replace the likes of McLean and the snake in midfield with anyone as comfortable on the ball as they were which has probably significantly contributed. 

The last sentence with fucking bells on.

Which is why we should have been looking to change rather than replace.

[coprolite]

16 minutes ago, AngusTheBull said:

The problem with this argument is you could say we only finished second ahead of Rangers by beating a Celtic side on the last day with nothing to play for other than seeing their rivals drop a place. Over the course of a season, I think it's unfair to put it down to one game like that. Agree with the rest of your post though

 

Prior to Lewis signing in particular, even when we had most elements of the team correct we'd be let down by whichever dubious goalkeeper we had at the time. I think when we had Ward in goal was probably the best overall team that we had, though the defence wasn't as good as the midfield and attack.

Even though, as you point out, the football wasn't always pretty then, I do think there is a world of difference between the football we played in a typical match then and now. We definitely haven't ever been able to replace the likes of McLean and the snake in midfield with anyone as comfortable on the ball as they were which has probably significantly contributed. 

I agree that probably the biggest factor in our terrible performances last season, and less so this season, has been our inability to recruit in midfield. 

McCrorie and Ferguson can be great but we shouldn't be relying on players that age in every game. I'm hopeful that Mcgeough can be the seasoned pro in there. 

The biggest signing successes in mcinnes early years were signing Shinnie and mclean, and moving shinnie and jack into midfield.  Since then, Tansey, Gleeson, Forrester, Bryson, Ojo have all been utter shit. 

[RussellAnderson]

Frankly fans of other teams can fucking do one telling us what we should and shouldnt be expecting from our team. The Dons supporters on here are about as balanced as youll get and in/out guys both raise perfectly valid points. 

The perception of McInnes reign is so wildly skewed by fans of other teams. "Oh Aberdeen always finish third" well, no. Its happened once, and it was the one season it wasnt expected. Aberdeen always bottle it v Celtic, well sometimes we do, and sometimes we play well and Celtic just turn up. Id love to have won more silverware under McInnes, but in one off games, things dont always go to plan. 

As it stands, Im probably as McInnes out as Ive ever been, in that if he left, I wouldnt be too disappointed. Im not shoving him out the door though, and Ive got no clue who Id want to replace him. Our problem is largely in creating good chances. McInnes best teams have been based on a solid base in defence and midfield, and an attack made up of good quality players who can be relied upon to create naturally. Crosses and set plays, in large numbers, dont concede and youll win more than you lose if your players are just better. Its probably why weve been a bit of a flat track bully at times, and struggle when were not the best team. 

This season hasnt been much different tbh, the only time weve looked any good was with three very good attackers (hedges, Watkins and fuckface), and since then its been a case of low scoring 0-0s and 1-0s either way (until recently when even our defence has started to look awful). What seems to be clear, and I think this has been backed up by a few players (Flood and Cosgrove spring to mind), is McInnes doesnt work enough on attacking patterns of play. he likes to get players who can figure that out for themselves. hopefully Kamberi and hornby can help there, and Ross might make a difference coming in, but as it stands, our team cant create chances against well organised defences. 

The board are happy to keep him on, and Im fine with that. We need to secure third this year. IMO the Scottish Cup will not be finished this year so the league is more important than ever in defining our achievements. If we qualify for Europe, McInnes will likely stay for that last season, and then I wouldnt be surprised if he left then. 

I also think that given what we hear about the extent of McInnes control over the club, we wont be able to easily replace him mid season, and a proper succession plan needs to be put in place. 

[DukDukGoose]

1 hour ago, RussellAnderson said:

Frankly fans of other teams can fucking do one telling us what we should and shouldnt be expecting from our team. The Dons supporters on here are about as balanced as youll get and in/out guys both raise perfectly valid points. 

The perception of McInnes reign is so wildly skewed by fans of other teams. "Oh Aberdeen always finish third" well, no. Its happened once, and it was the one season it wasnt expected. Aberdeen always bottle it v Celtic, well sometimes we do, and sometimes we play well and Celtic just turn up. Id love to have won more silverware under McInnes, but in one off games, things dont always go to plan. 

As it stands, Im probably as McInnes out as Ive ever been, in that if he left, I wouldnt be too disappointed. Im not shoving him out the door though, and Ive got no clue who Id want to replace him. Our problem is largely in creating good chances. McInnes best teams have been based on a solid base in defence and midfield, and an attack made up of good quality players who can be relied upon to create naturally. Crosses and set plays, in large numbers, dont concede and youll win more than you lose if your players are just better. Its probably why weve been a bit of a flat track bully at times, and struggle when were not the best team. 

This season hasnt been much different tbh, the only time weve looked any good was with three very good attackers (hedges, Watkins and fuckface), and since then its been a case of low scoring 0-0s and 1-0s either way (until recently when even our defence has started to look awful). What seems to be clear, and I think this has been backed up by a few players (Flood and Cosgrove spring to mind), is McInnes doesnt work enough on attacking patterns of play. he likes to get players who can figure that out for themselves. hopefully Kamberi and hornby can help there, and Ross might make a difference coming in, but as it stands, our team cant create chances against well organised defences. 

The board are happy to keep him on, and Im fine with that. We need to secure third this year. IMO the Scottish Cup will not be finished this year so the league is more important than ever in defining our achievements. If we qualify for Europe, McInnes will likely stay for that last season, and then I wouldnt be surprised if he left then. 

I also think that given what we hear about the extent of McInnes control over the club, we wont be able to easily replace him mid season, and a proper succession plan needs to be put in place. 

Don't agree with everything you say but I do understand the points you're making. 

There does need to be a radical change when he goes.

[kingjoey]

8 hours ago, ZingaliMan said:

Hi guy's, how much is Red TV for away fans cheers. 

It’s £12.99.

[Dons_1988]

2 minutes ago, CCB19035 said:

That's the point though, we've been trying to make strides in Europe for years, and we're handed a golden opportunity here, and the decline that many of us have seen since 2017, means Hibs will sneak in and pinch it off of us. 
 

Let's say, hypothetically, Hibs do get third and qualify for the Europa League, could someone not argue, that on paper, they've done more than McInnes' Aberdeen have since 2016? 
 

 

Only by fluke of coefficient, which they’ve contributed virtually nothing to. 

So in short, no. 

[kingjoey]

1 hour ago, RussellAnderson said:

Frankly fans of other teams can fucking do one telling us what we should and shouldnt be expecting from our team. The Dons supporters on here are about as balanced as youll get and in/out guys both raise perfectly valid points. 

The perception of McInnes reign is so wildly skewed by fans of other teams. "Oh Aberdeen always finish third" well, no. Its happened once, and it was the one season it wasnt expected. Aberdeen always bottle it v Celtic, well sometimes we do, and sometimes we play well and Celtic just turn up. Id love to have won more silverware under McInnes, but in one off games, things dont always go to plan. 

As it stands, Im probably as McInnes out as Ive ever been, in that if he left, I wouldnt be too disappointed. Im not shoving him out the door though, and Ive got no clue who Id want to replace him. Our problem is largely in creating good chances. McInnes best teams have been based on a solid base in defence and midfield, and an attack made up of good quality players who can be relied upon to create naturally. Crosses and set plays, in large numbers, dont concede and youll win more than you lose if your players are just better. Its probably why weve been a bit of a flat track bully at times, and struggle when were not the best team. 

This season hasnt been much different tbh, the only time weve looked any good was with three very good attackers (hedges, Watkins and fuckface), and since then its been a case of low scoring 0-0s and 1-0s either way (until recently when even our defence has started to look awful). What seems to be clear, and I think this has been backed up by a few players (Flood and Cosgrove spring to mind), is McInnes doesnt work enough on attacking patterns of play. he likes to get players who can figure that out for themselves. hopefully Kamberi and hornby can help there, and Ross might make a difference coming in, but as it stands, our team cant create chances against well organised defences. 

The board are happy to keep him on, and Im fine with that. We need to secure third this year. IMO the Scottish Cup will not be finished this year so the league is more important than ever in defining our achievements. If we qualify for Europe, McInnes will likely stay for that last season, and then I wouldnt be surprised if he left then. 

I also think that given what we hear about the extent of McInnes control over the club, we wont be able to easily replace him mid season, and a proper succession plan needs to be put in place. 

I do agree with a fair bit that you say, but to say that we can’t create chances is really not the case over the last six, seven, eight games. We have created , to use a cliché, numerous gilt edged chances and away to Livingston four in that game alone. Our problem is that no one can finish these sitters. The players that these chances are falling to look to have no conviction that the ball is going to go into the net. Shots/headers are going off target, McLennan completely misses the ball right in front of goal at Easter Road at 0.0, Jonny Hayes gets his feet mixed up right in front of goal at Livingston. Chances are being created, finishing is our problem.

[Dons_1988]

5 minutes ago, CCB19035 said:

Obviously, we're speaking in hypotheticals. 
 

However, on paper, to me, a Scottish Cup and a EL qualification rank higher than any Aberdeen achievement since 2013. 
 

Maybe it's just my mentality, I'd swap finishing 3rd, 2nd and 4th for the Scottish Cup or another League Cup. These are the days you remember as fans. Naturally, I'm aware football doesn't work that way, but I find it hard to get excited when people rattle off the whole "up there challenging for Europe every season" stuff in regards to McInnes, because we've yet to qualify proper in 7 attempts. 
 

How much of a sickener would it be, if Hibs were able to qualify because of our own contribution to the coefficient?

Well, yes it would be a sickener. But hibs could go into an EL playoff, lose 7-0 at home to Malmö again and end up in the conference thingy group stage and you’re going to be giving them a standing ovation for achieving more than mcinnes ever did? Give over.

[Baldie1980]

where is kamberi by the way

[tarapoa]

16 minutes ago, CCB19035 said:

Qualifying for group stage European football? One of our main objectives since the start. 

 

What does 4th get us? Qualifiers for the Conference thing? 

It does indeed.  I think it would mean needing to win three ties and you're into the Conference groups.  It's more doable than normal as you wouldn't be running into a Sporting, Sociedad or the 7th placed EPL team - but still fraught with with those 2-2 aggregate out on away goals scenario type ties against that crack Hungarian lot, with their six Brazilians. 

However, the thought of Hibs pinching something which our reasonable consistent Europa performances perhaps deserves in terms of guaranteed group stages is giving me the dry boak. Especially as we have managed to capitulate from a strong position this season.

McInnes needs to get the mid-last decade fire back into his own belly and that of the team, and sort this out whilst there's still a chance to redeem it. On form Smurn, two matches against Celtic and non-match fit strikers suggests the gap will likely widen if anything - but it's about time they did something to pleasantly surprise us all.

Queue a 0-2 vs St Mirren (silhouette handball pen and a Lewis howler, with us hitting the underside of the bar), a season ending injury for Ferguson.........and more meltdown.

 

Edited February 9, 2021 by tarapoa

[Rodhull]

17 minutes ago, CCB19035 said:

Qualifying for group stage European football? One of our main objectives since the start. 

 

What does 4th get us? Qualifiers for the Conference thing? 

At this rate with the Scottish Cup looking doubtful this season I think 5th place will get conference playoffs as well.

[Illgresi]

35 minutes ago, CCB19035 said:

Qualifying for group stage European football? One of our main objectives since the start. 

 

What does 4th get us? Qualifiers for the Conference thing? 

All taken from Bert Kassies website...

1st goes into the CL Q3, 2nd goes into the CL Q2

Assuming the Scottish Cup isn't completed this season:

3rd goes into EL PO; as you can see from the diagram the winners of this go into the EL group stage, the losers go into the ECL group stage.

4th and 5th go into ECL Q2

Ultimately, if we finished 4th or 5th we'd still have a chance of qualifying, but in the ECL playoff we'd likely be facing the kind of standard of team we've consistently been knocked out by in the EL Q3 in the past half decade.

Edited February 9, 2021 by Illgresi

[d31]

1 hour ago, CCB19035 said:

That's the point though, we've been trying to make strides in Europe for years, and we're handed a golden opportunity here, and the decline that many of us have seen since 2017, means Hibs will sneak in and pinch it off of us. 
 

Let's say, hypothetically, Hibs do get third and qualify for the Europa League, could someone not argue, that on paper, they've done more than McInnes' Aberdeen have since 2016? 
 

 

If Ross wins the PO round tie that would be better than anything by McInnes

If Ross loses the PO tie then no would not rank better but if he got out of the ECL group then it would rank better.

A fantastic opportunity and presuming we qualify 8 years in a row its absolutely sickening weve fucked it up.

It's the sole reason, for me, that I want to sack McInnes

[AngusTheBull]

36 minutes ago, Baldie1980 said:

where is kamberi by the way

Landed in Aberdeen today according to Twitter.

Does he have to self-isolate for 10 days given he’s come from Switzerland, or is this waived as he’s in/going to be in a COVID sporting bubble? Less than ideal if it’s the former.

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

1 minute ago, AngusTheBull said:

Landed in Aberdeen today according to Twitter.

Does he have to self-isolate for 10 days given he’s come from Switzerland, or is this waived as he’s in/going to be in a COVID sporting bubble? Less than ideal if it’s the former.

I'm sure there are still exemptions for Elite Sport.

Antwerp won't be spending 10 days in a hotel when they come to face Rangers.

[d31]

14 minutes ago, Illgresi said:

All taken from Bert Kassies website...

1st goes into the CL Q3, 2nd goes into the CL Q2

Assuming the Scottish Cup isn't completed this season:

3rd goes into EL PO; as you can see from the diagram the winners of this go into the EL group stage, the losers go into the ECL group stage.

4th and 5th go into ECL Q2

Ultimately, if we finished 4th or 5th we'd still have a chance of qualifying, but in the ECL playoff we'd likely be facing the kind of standard of team we've consistently been knocked out by in the EL Q3 in the past half decade.

Very Roughly going by the latest team positions across Europe

europa PO - looks about same as difficult as Europa QR3 has been

ECL r2 - looks easier than Europa R2 has tended to be

ECLr3 - looks easier than Europa R3 has tended to be

ECLPO - looks very equivalent to Europa PO previous level