The Famous Aberdeen - Season 2022/23

[Golden Gordon]

1 hour ago, Dons_1988 said:

The classic problem is the manager/coach loses autonomy yet retains all the responsibility when things go wrong.

I know if I felt like if someone else was signing the players but I got sacked when they were pish then I'd not be too keen.

That's a simplistic/extreme scenario but you have to be very careful how you structure it.

Agreed.  Don't want to discount the DoF model outright, but it might make things quite complicated in terms of isolating where the problem lies if results are poor.  Does the problem lie in the overarching philosophy, the DoF, the coach/manager or a combination of all three?

[DrewDon]

14 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

There's a good in depth bit with Webber here https://trainingground.guru/articles/stuart-webber-climb-of-the-canaries

I noticed that article around the time they had their bid for Turnbull accepted.

He was a guest on a podcast called "The Beautiful Game" a while back and I was pretty impressed with him - worth a listen if you are into that type of stuff. 

[tarapoa]

On 09/03/2021 at 12:22, Golden Gordon said:

Yep, it's been mentioned a few times on here by fans of other clubs that McInnes took us into Europe for seven successive seasons.  It's not to be sniffed at, but there was never any progress, season after season, beyond the qualifiers.  Qualifying for Europe became an end in itself, regardless of results in the competition or progress made. 

That's another circumstantial thing.

In 1986 we were in the European Cup quarter final - in March - having won just the two ties against Icelandic and Swiss opposition.

2007 as mentioned - it was one tie vs Dnipro and then the groups.

Now it's four qualifying rounds, where we are unseeded in two of them (previously three of them).

Next season the group stages are there for us if we finish above Hibs - but AFC's self-destruct button means we've likely messed that up too.

 

Edited March 10, 2021 by tarapoa

[tarapoa]

4 hours ago, HunterAFC said:

Think the Director of Football/Sporting Director model would be the best thing long term. One of the main complaints of the past decade is the lack of youth coming through.

.......and the ones that do come through ending up going to Sevco during their peak football years for two soldiers and a sausage.

[tarapoa]

On 09/03/2021 at 14:57, Dons_1988 said:

So Glass, who on the off chance is any good, will be heading back to Atlanta as soon as they decide they fancy him I take it? Or he just turns out to be shite.

Hud me back.

Is that a bad thing?  

 

22 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

Tbf, and I'm not an Aberdeen fan so I can't compare, I always got the impression their Semi win v us at Tynecastle would've been a far more memorable day than the Final.

Much like, to me, our SC Semi win at Ibrox was better than the Final, as weird as that sounds.

For me it was. 3pm Saturday ko with a boozed up hardcore support in a stadium that was the right size for the occasion.   Very good game too.............still insist St Johnstone played better at Tynecastle than they did at Ibrox, but we were brutally clinical - which really isn't like us in a pressure game.

Ibrox was a Sunday lunchtime - so flat in comparison, even when we were leading. We looked quite comfortable, but Steven McLean was noticeably getting away with lots of fouls and I think wore us into submission - the last half hour or so, we could see what happened coming a mile off............with the script written for "whothef**k is?" SM to be the hero.

The only boxes "ParkRed" ticked for me were the trophy monkey off our back - and a long held belief that we could mobilise crazy numbers if the circumstances were right.  I was surrounded by people who clearly wouldn't be seen at Pittodrie for a Motherwell game or the likes.........and the Pawlett and Hayes injuries just made it a horrendous war of attrition with all our prior panache gone.

I regard the SF (and to an extent the QF at Firp Ark) as more special.

 

Edited March 10, 2021 by tarapoa

[d31]

5 hours ago, tarapoa said:

That's another circumstantial thing.

In 1986 we were in the European Cup quarter final - in March - having won just the two ties against Icelandic and Swiss opposition.

2007 as mentioned - it was one tie vs Dnipro and then the groups.

Now it's four qualifying rounds, where we are unseeded in two of them (previously three of them).

Next season the group stages are there for us if we finish above Hibs - but AFC's self-destruct button means we've likely messed that up too.

 

It's that AFC self destruct button that is making me cry and the reason I wanted to sack McInnes.

We have let Hibs get that spot, which should have been our spot, and we are gonna let them take with quite possibly a lower points total than what was required in the previous 7 years

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

Back to the DoF thing. Have we had one of these before ? I honestly can't remember. Was that not Craig Brown's job for a while ?

I know that we currently have a Director of football operations in Steven Gunn. 

My problem with all of that is that we become top heavy for a relatively small club. And the point about a manager's autonomy is a very good one. We're not Manchester City, where a DoF can scour Europe looking for 100 million quid players.....we sign loan players from English lower league clubs. 

For me, a DoF would be an unnecessary layer of administration, and an unnecessary expense. No thank you. 

 

[coprolite]

11 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said:

Back to the DoF thing. Have we had one of these before ? I honestly can't remember. Was that not Craig Brown's job for a while ?

I know that we currently have a Director of football operations in Steven Gunn. 

My problem with all of that is that we become top heavy for a relatively small club. And the point about a manager's autonomy is a very good one. We're not Manchester City, where a DoF can scour Europe looking for 100 million quid players.....we sign loan players from English lower league clubs. 

For me, a DoF would be an unnecessary layer of administration, and an unnecessary expense. No thank you. 

 

Was Keith Burkinshaw not a DoF for what seemed like a couple of months in the 90s? Or is my memory playing tricks again.?

[Dons_1988]

14 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said:

Back to the DoF thing. Have we had one of these before ? I honestly can't remember. Was that not Craig Brown's job for a while ?

I know that we currently have a Director of football operations in Steven Gunn. 

My problem with all of that is that we become top heavy for a relatively small club. And the point about a manager's autonomy is a very good one. We're not Manchester City, where a DoF can scour Europe looking for 100 million quid players.....we sign loan players from English lower league clubs. 

For me, a DoF would be an unnecessary layer of administration, and an unnecessary expense. No thank you. 

 

Was Willie Miller not a DoF during the Calderwood years? I genuinely can't remember.

Again, it really depends on what the role involves. I'm not a fan of the head coach being given players and essentially just training them and picking the team, however if the DoF just takes admin etc away from a manager like contract issues then it's a more attractive prospect.

Whatever the structure our recruitment shouldn't really just fall on the manager, it's been poor in recent years so how we identify and recruit targets should surely be looked at, whatever the outcome.

[Golden Gordon]

15 hours ago, tarapoa said:

That's another circumstantial thing.

In 1986 we were in the European Cup quarter final - in March - having won just the two ties against Icelandic and Swiss opposition.

2007 as mentioned - it was one tie vs Dnipro and then the groups.

Now it's four qualifying rounds, where we are unseeded in two of them (previously three of them).

Next season the group stages are there for us if we finish above Hibs - but AFC's self-destruct button means we've likely messed that up too.

 

I take your point that it's a longer road to qualify for the groups now.  Up until the past couple of seasons, McInnes' domestic record was consistently strong, aside from maybe not gaining as much silverware as he potentially could have.  My issue was with his lack of progress in Europe, given his repeated opportunities to learn how to navigate in the competition.  Aside from notable victories against Real Sociedad, Groningen & Rijeka & the draw against Burnley, it always seemed that McInnes & his sides lacked a level of guile & were regularly outfoxed by sides we could have had the chance to progress against.  Rightly or wrongly, that was the perception I was left with.   

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

47 minutes ago, Golden Gordon said:

I take your point that it's a longer road to qualify for the groups now.  Up until the past couple of seasons, McInnes' domestic record was consistently strong, aside from maybe not gaining as much silverware as he potentially could have.  My issue was with his lack of progress in Europe, given his repeated opportunities to learn how to navigate in the competition.  Aside from notable victories against Real Sociedad, Groningen & Rijeka & the draw against Burnley, it always seemed that McInnes & his sides lacked a level of guile & were regularly outfoxed by sides we could have had the chance to progress against.  Rightly or wrongly, that was the perception I was left with.   

It's a tricky one trying to judge McInnes on Europe. 

Yes, we never took 'the next step', but in general the teams we lost to were teams that we were expected to lose to. However, there was a run of eliminations to Maribor, Kairat and Limassol where in either the home or away leg we had periods of utter dominance and coulda/shoulda put the tie to bed, and the last tie against Rijeka aside, I don't think that we were ever 'outfoxed' by any side over both ties in McInnes's tenure.

I just had a wee look back at the European games over the last 7 years, and it's sad to see how often the home leg let us down. We would control games from start to finish, and then one lack of concentration would let the opposition back into it. It truly cursed us throughout McInnes's time. 

Again, it was that extra step that we were just unable to take. 

That said, there's no doubt that our run of the last 7 years were the best of any Scottish club outside the OF since Yinited back in the late 80's. We never got knocked out by some amateurs from the Faroes or wherever, or lost 7-0 at home, or generally embarrassed ourselves in any way. 

The European games were actually a microcosm of McInnes's time at Pittodrie.....consistent, very good in places, not so good in others, better than most other teams in Scotland, but ultimately just fell short.

 

 

[Golden Gordon]

46 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said:

It's a tricky one trying to judge McInnes on Europe. 

Yes, we never took 'the next step', but in general the teams we lost to were teams that we were expected to lose to. However, there was a run of eliminations to Maribor, Kairat and Limassol where in either the home or away leg we had periods of utter dominance and coulda/shoulda put the tie to bed, and the last tie against Rijeka aside, I don't think that we were ever 'outfoxed' by any side over both ties in McInnes's tenure.

I just had a wee look back at the European games over the last 7 years, and it's sad to see how often the home leg let us down. We would control games from start to finish, and then one lack of concentration would let the opposition back into it. It truly cursed us throughout McInnes's time. 

Again, it was that extra step that we were just unable to take. 

That said, there's no doubt that our run of the last 7 years were the best of any Scottish club outside the OF since Yinited back in the late 80's. We never got knocked out by some amateurs from the Faroes or wherever, or lost 7-0 at home, or generally embarrassed ourselves in any way. 

The European games were actually a microcosm of McInnes's time at Pittodrie.....consistent, very good in places, not so good in others, better than most other teams in Scotland, but ultimately just fell short.

 

 

Yes, I think it was the 1-1 home draws against Kairat & Maribor which stick in the memory as missed opportunities.  I don't want to draw comparisons with Gerrard qualifying for the group stages at the first time of asking with the Chelsea buns, because of budget disparity, which isn't fair.  I suppose that if we are fortunate enough to employ another manager/DoF & Head Coach that gets us consistently making the European places, but still struggle to qualify for groups season after season, then McInnes' record would be put into proper perspective. 

[DukDukGoose]

2 hours ago, Dons_1988 said:

Was Willie Miller not a DoF during the Calderwood years? I genuinely can't remember.

Again, it really depends on what the role involves. I'm not a fan of the head coach being given players and essentially just training them and picking the team, however if the DoF just takes admin etc away from a manager like contract issues then it's a more attractive prospect.

Whatever the structure our recruitment shouldn't really just fall on the manager, it's been poor in recent years so how we identify and recruit targets should surely be looked at, whatever the outcome.

Ideally for me the DoF and manager discuss what type of football we want to be playing and weigh that against what we have. All signings are then made to get us towards our target and agreed upon between whatever transfer structure we set up.

I'd be much happier with that in place than "Big Curtis done a job on us previously" with every single supporter and pundit wondering why the f**k we've signed him.

[Marshmallo]

On 08/03/2021 at 20:48, Marshmallo said:

From what I've been told, Cormack has at the very least been in touch with Steven Pressley.

The media tour underway I see...

[ZingaliMan]

A Don's mate of mine saying a guy from Mcbookie on twitter saying its Goodwin. On BAWA forum romour mill a fan posted he has been told Goodwin is in Aberdeen today. He just signed a 3 year deal so would imagine it will take a few Bob to get him. Hope this is all crap. 

[tarapoa]

9 minutes ago, ZingaliMan said:

A Don's mate of mine saying a guy from Mcbookie on twitter saying its Goodwin. On BAWA forum romour mill a fan posted he has been told Goodwin is in Aberdeen today. He just signed a 3 year deal so would imagine it will take a few Bob to get him. Hope this is all crap. 

I don't think it will be - as we will likely become an even bigger farm club for Atlanta United and employ Stephen Glass to implement the 'Atlanta philosophy' and all that jazz.  In fact they may even rename us Aberdeen Silverbacks as a tribute to the fore-runner of the current MLS club.

Of all the usual suspecty kind of names being banded around - Goodwin is the one I'd take.  Always liked him as a player and manager - proper leader of men and has served his time well with incremental progress being demonstrated every season at Alloa and St Mirren.

 

 

Edited March 11, 2021 by tarapoa

[DukDukGoose]

1 minute ago, tarapoa said:

I don't think it will be - as we will likely become an even bigger farm club for Atlanta United and employ Stephen Glass to implement the 'Atlanta philosophy' and all that jazz.  In fact they may even rename us Aberdeen Silverbacks as a tribute to the fore-runner of the current MLS club.

Of all the usual suspecty kind of names being banded around - Goodwin is the one I'd take.  Always liked him as a player and manager - proper leader of men.

 

 

Don't like Goodwin. I think the man's a c**t.

The type of man you grow to love when he is your c**t though

[Dons_1988]

Surely absolutely no one loved Goodwin as a player other than St Mirren fans.

[coprolite]

1 minute ago, Merkland Red said:

Don't like Goodwin. I think the man's a c**t.

The type of man you grow to love when he is your c**t though

I've warmed to him as a manager. 

As a player he was alongside the likes of ian black and lasley for me but not up there with scott "impunity" brown or ricksen, in terms of cunty opponents. 

[tarapoa]

2 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

Surely absolutely no one loved Goodwin as a player other than St Mirren fans.

I always remember the 2-2 LCQF when they beat us on pens and went on to win the trophy.

The whole of Pittodrie singing "Goodwin get to f**k" as he was winding up everyone - for a player from a "diddy club" to get the old place reacting like that deserves a certain modicum of respect.