The Famous Aberdeen - Season 2022/23

[Jmothecat2]

Aye.

I just don't. It's another one of those games that we've become used to turning up to and not performing at. I don't begrudge folk for not wanting to go at all.

[Melanius Mullarkey]

5 minutes ago, Jmothecat2 said:

 

I just don't. It's another one of those games that we've become used to turning up to and not performing at. I don't begrudge folk for not wanting to go at all.

 

Boooooooooo.

[glasgow-sheep]

Play with the tactics and attitude we had second half we have a chance. Play like we did first half and it will be over by half time, like yesterday.

And can folk finally stop demanding we play with two strikers? We've never played well under deek with that set up and we were basically a man down first half. 4231 is far mire attacking and effective

[Jute]

21 minutes ago, glasgow-sheep said:

Play with the tactics and attitude we had second half we have a chance. Play like we did first half and it will be over by half time, like yesterday.

And can folk finally stop demanding we play with two strikers? We've never played well under deek with that set up and we were basically a man down first half. 4231 is far mire attacking and effective

Not convinced any of our strikers are suited to playing the lone striker role either. Fact we looked like being a man down yesterday was more to do with playing Cosgrove as a target man rather than because there was anything wrong with playing 2 strikers.

Edited October 21, 2018 by Jute

[lubo_blaha]

A big part of our problems at the moment is recruitment. We've lost McLean, Christie and Rooney and not brought anyone in to that standard. 

Look at a couple of seasons ago, we had Shinnie, McLean and Jack in midfield and Hayes, McGinn and Rooney as a front three. The defence maybe wasn't quite as strong as now but those six were a step above anything you'd find in the SPFL outside Celtic. The current crop aren't up to that standard. McInnes deserves credit for keeping hold of the same team from 2014 onwards, for about 3 seasons we didn't lose a key player. However, we've lost several in the last few seasons and they have been replaced with inferior players. We look solely at the Scottish and English leagues where wages are inflated and we also have an over-reliance on loanees who often aren't up to scratch. Add in the fact that we're competing for players with Hibs, Hearts and Rangers who are all more attractive options than they were 3 years ago as well. 

Looking at the past two seasons, the strike rate for signings has been below par:

Ferguson - good signing
Forrester - can't even make the matchday squad
Gleeson - stuck on the bench
Cerny - good back up
Ball (loan) - average
Hoban (loan) - decent defender but always injured
Wilson (loan) - looks good in flashes but always injured
Lowe (loan) - seems decent going forward at least

Tansey - waste of time
Maynard - hopeless for us
GMS - good signing now he's bedded in
Arnason - underwhelming 
May - shadow of his former self, waste of 400k
McGinn - great at times but less consistent than previously
Devlin - good signing, solid CB
Cosgrove - not good enough to start for us on a regular basis
Christie (loan) - great when on form
Stewart (loan) - unfit and couldn't get the best out of him 
Ball (loan) - see above
Nwakali (loan) - waste of time
Woodman (loan) - decent back up

[10menwent2mow]

It's easy to look at guys that Hearts and Hibs have signed and say 'why did we not go after them'.

However, there is nothing to say that they would've done anything at Afc. McInnes clearly likes having a UK/ROI based squad and again it's easy to say that this points to a lack of a comprehensive scouting network. However, Hibs and Hearts will have signed as many players who weren't up to scratch as we have, maybe even more. Especially Hearts approach seems to be chuck enough darts and eventually you'll hit a 180. Keeping the nucleus of a team together has worked well for us and I hope guys like Lewis, Logan, Devlin, GMS and Shinnie can be around for years allied with guys like Wright, Mclennan, Ross, Campbell and Anderson kicking on.

As for the signing by signing breakdown above we were happy/excited by most of the guys criticised above. Tansey, Arnason, Mcginn, May, Stewart especially were almost universally welcomed by the fans. I'm thinking a run of 4/5 below average games from Lewis Ferguson and suddenly he'll be 'that *** c***s' loon and nephew'

[JamieThomas]

Perhaps if you'd copied Hearts' dart chucking signing policy you wouldn't be 9th or wherever you are m8. Just saying.

 

 

[10menwent2mow]

Perhaps if you'd copied Hearts' dart chucking signing policy you wouldn't be 9th or wherever you are m8. Just saying.

 
 

Sensible input. Thanks

[Dons_1988]

21 hours ago, lubo_blaha said:

A big part of our problems at the moment is recruitment. We've lost McLean, Christie and Rooney and not brought anyone in to that standard. 

Look at a couple of seasons ago, we had Shinnie, McLean and Jack in midfield and Hayes, McGinn and Rooney as a front three. The defence maybe wasn't quite as strong as now but those six were a step above anything you'd find in the SPFL outside Celtic. The current crop aren't up to that standard. McInnes deserves credit for keeping hold of the same team from 2014 onwards, for about 3 seasons we didn't lose a key player. However, we've lost several in the last few seasons and they have been replaced with inferior players. We look solely at the Scottish and English leagues where wages are inflated and we also have an over-reliance on loanees who often aren't up to scratch. Add in the fact that we're competing for players with Hibs, Hearts and Rangers who are all more attractive options than they were 3 years ago as well. 

Looking at the past two seasons, the strike rate for signings has been below par:

Ferguson - good signing
Forrester - can't even make the matchday squad
Gleeson - stuck on the bench
Cerny - good back up
Ball (loan) - average
Hoban (loan) - decent defender but always injured
Wilson (loan) - looks good in flashes but always injured
Lowe (loan) - seems decent going forward at least

Tansey - waste of time
Maynard - hopeless for us
GMS - good signing now he's bedded in
Arnason - underwhelming 
May - shadow of his former self, waste of 400k
McGinn - great at times but less consistent than previously
Devlin - good signing, solid CB
Cosgrove - not good enough to start for us on a regular basis
Christie (loan) - great when on form
Stewart (loan) - unfit and couldn't get the best out of him 
Ball (loan) - see above
Nwakali (loan) - waste of time
Woodman (loan) - decent back up

I think it's fair to say recruitment has gone wrong in the last few windows.  I won't revisit all names as you've done a good summary of each signing there. 

I will forgive last summers as we basically had to rebuild the team in a month after losing Jack, Hayes etc in time for the Euro qualifiers.  January is also a shite time to recruit.

The summer just past is more concerning.  I think we did miss out on several of our top targets which can happen but our plan B is clearly not great.  Forrester and Gleeson could go down as Mcinnes' biggest recruitment failings as manager if they don't improve soon.  He's obviously signed plenty of crap players but generally they've been signed as squad fillers.  These two were clearly earmarked as first teamers given the investment in them and neither of them seem capable of getting a game just now.  Nor have I seen anything from them to suggest they deserve it.

Saying that, I think our squad is nowhere near as bad as some people think.  We have the basis of a good team if we could just get consistency of selection and build a bit of momentum.  The season has felt very stop start in terms of injuries, suspensions, performances and results, something which we're not used to under Mcinnes.

I do think questions need to be asked tactically of Mcinnes, particularly in big games.  There is a consistent theme to all of the big game failures we've had.  We seem to want to ease our way in to the big games.  Just get through the first half without taking too much damage and then we get going.  Problem is, teams like Hearts on Saturday came out the blocks at 100mph and by the time we woke up we were 2-0 down.  I just think we need to be braver in these situations, starting of course on Sunday.

I am a little worried that if Sunday goes badly then Mcinnes will lose a huge chunk of our support and we'll be back into a situation similar to the latter days of Jimmy Calderwood's reign.  Could be a really pivotal moment in the season.

[Forest of Dean]

38 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

I will forgive last summers as we basically had to rebuild the team in a month after losing Jack, Hayes etc in time for the Euro qualifiers. 

Since Jack signed a pre-contract surely McInnes knew he was leaving a while before the window opened? That's why you got Tansey on a pre-contract no?

[Dons_1988]

1 minute ago, Forest of Dean said:

Since Jack signed a pre-contract surely McInnes knew he was leaving a while before the window opened? That's why you got Tansey on a pre-contract no?

Well yes, you could also say he probably knew Mcginn, Hayes etc would be gone well before they did too.

But that summer after the SC final Mcinnes was chased by Sunderland for a while.  From the time he turned them down to the first Euro qualifier I think he maybe had 3-4 weeks to cobble a team together.  We would already have had targets but players like Ryan Christie may not have come if Mcinnes wasn't there etc. 

It was all just very rushed, rebuilding a team is hard enough without having to do it in a few weeks.

[betting competition]

2 hours ago, Dons_1988 said:

I think it's fair to say recruitment has gone wrong in the last few windows.  I won't revisit all names as you've done a good summary of each signing there. 

I will forgive last summers as we basically had to rebuild the team in a month after losing Jack, Hayes etc in time for the Euro qualifiers.  January is also a shite time to recruit.

The summer just past is more concerning.  I think we did miss out on several of our top targets which can happen but our plan B is clearly not great.  Forrester and Gleeson could go down as Mcinnes' biggest recruitment failings as manager if they don't improve soon.  He's obviously signed plenty of crap players but generally they've been signed as squad fillers.  These two were clearly earmarked as first teamers given the investment in them and neither of them seem capable of getting a game just now.  Nor have I seen anything from them to suggest they deserve it.

Saying that, I think our squad is nowhere near as bad as some people think.  We have the basis of a good team if we could just get consistency of selection and build a bit of momentum.  The season has felt very stop start in terms of injuries, suspensions, performances and results, something which we're not used to under Mcinnes.

I do think questions need to be asked tactically of Mcinnes, particularly in big games.  There is a consistent theme to all of the big game failures we've had.  We seem to want to ease our way in to the big games.  Just get through the first half without taking too much damage and then we get going.  Problem is, teams like Hearts on Saturday came out the blocks at 100mph and by the time we woke up we were 2-0 down.  I just think we need to be braver in these situations, starting of course on Sunday.

I am a little worried that if Sunday goes badly then Mcinnes will lose a huge chunk of our support and we'll be back into a situation similar to the latter days of Jimmy Calderwood's reign.  Could be a really pivotal moment in the season.

Agree with all of this

The first 4 seasons with McInnes our recruitment was mostly done early but the last 3 transfer windows we have struggled to get players in for whatever reason. I did hear he was in for 2 players for loan near the end of this transfer window but board told him he could only sign 1 (Max Lowe).

For me the results McInnes has achieved in the last 5 seasons he deserves a lot more time to turn this season around. His first 4 seasons the football was a joy to watch but last season was dreadful and it is the same again this season. 

 

[EdTheDuck]

3 hours ago, Dons_1988 said:

I do think questions need to be asked tactically of Mcinnes, particularly in big games.  There is a consistent theme to all of the big game failures we've had.  We seem to want to ease our way in to the big games.  Just get through the first half without taking too much damage and then we get going.  Problem is, teams like Hearts on Saturday came out the blocks at 100mph and by the time we woke up we were 2-0 down.  I just think we need to be braver in these situations, starting of course on Sunday.

I am a little worried that if Sunday goes badly then Mcinnes will lose a huge chunk of our support and we'll be back into a situation similar to the latter days of Jimmy Calderwood's reign.  Could be a really pivotal moment in the season.

This.

I don’t think anyone believes McInnes is anywhere near as bad as Brown, McGhee or Paterson but there is a growing suspicion in a sizeable chunk of the AFC support that he has probably taken the club as far as he can (please excuse the dreadful cliché).

This is entirely because of the big game thing. The games against the old farm, the semi-finals against St. Johnstone, United, Motherwell, that League Cup Final vs Celtic and the early cup exits to Dundee, Hibs, Hearts, Motherwell – not because he lost these games but the manner in which they were lost (profligacy, abject surrender and/or the tactical errors you highlight)

Then there is also the 2015/16 season when twice in a week at the end of December a home win against Inverness and then Thistle would have taken us top of the table and we blew it both times. That same season in the run up to the split AFC were 1 point behind Celtic with 3 games to go. By the time the split arrived 2 defeats out of 3 had ended the challenge (and in both games Aberdeen had scored first).

The season before AFC had actually picked up 1 more point versus The Rest than Celtic had over the 33 games, but had contrived to lose 3 out of 3 versus Ronny Delia’s Celtic and entered the playoffs 8 points back.

Those 2 seasons were the best chance AFC will ever get of winning the championship. Ronny fucking Delia was hopeless and there was no Rangers or Hibs both years and no Hearts in 14/15.

It may not be fair, but it’s those fairly irregular fails that fans remember, because they were/are focal games, particularly when put in tandem with a 300 mile 6/7 hour round trip to Weegieville. The result is a growing lack of faith, only the diehards making these road trips and the “peripheral” fans (the majority of AFC fans?) staying home.

This weekend is McInnes 7^th semi-final and his record is 50:50. However, he’s lost 3 out of 4 against Premiership opposition so…y’know.

[Aberdeen Cowden]

On 19/10/2018 at 11:13, EdTheDuck said:

Quite right.

Hearts fans are turning out in their tens of thousands because they believe they will win their semi-final (or at worst believe they have a great chance of winning). In 2013/14 when they were in the depths of despair fewer than 13,000 turned up for a semi-final in Edinburgh and no-one could blame them at the time. This time everything is different.

Aberdeen fans are not turning out in their tens of thousands because they believe they will lose their semi final. They base this on the last few years of abject surrender in the face of either Glasgow club & big games in general.

 

In 2014/15 the year after AFC won the League Cup a ba’hair short of 30,000 turned up at Hampden for semi-final vs. Dundee United, the vast majority of whom were Aberdeen fans (over 20,000), because they expected to win (that they lost such a big game is, of course, something that would be repeated ad infinitum over the next few years.)

 

Expectation. Aberdeen fans expect to lose this one and you can’t blame them.

If all fans stopped going to games because they thought their team might not win, football wouldn’t survive. 

[kent_don]

1 hour ago, betting competition said:

 I did hear he was in for 2 players for loan near the end of this transfer window but board told him he could only sign 1 (Max Lowe).

 

Heard similar in that player number 2 was Gauld - who wanted to join.

[Melanius Mullarkey]

Just now, Aberdeen Cowden said:

If all fans stopped going to games because they thought their team might not win, football wouldn’t survive. 

Spoken like a true Cowdenbeath fan.

[Aberdeen Cowden]

Just now, Melanius Mullarkey said:

Spoken like a true Cowdenbeath fan.

Believe me, I know what it’s like going to games when I think my team won’ t win. Won’t stop.me though.

[EdTheDuck]

25 minutes ago, Aberdeen Cowden said:

If all fans stopped going to games because they thought their team might not win, football wouldn’t survive. 

I didn't mean to suggest all fans would stop attending when their team are losing.

However, every club has a hardcore that will turn up regardless of how things are going. In AFC's case that hardcore will also be prepared to endure a 6 or 7 hour round trip to The Weeg on a Sunday or stupid 'o' clock on a Saturday even if they actually think they're probably going to lose or had their gonads squeezed repeatedly in big games for a few years.

Every club also has an outer shell of fans who will not turn up if they can't cash in emotionally.

[lubo_blaha]

6 hours ago, Dons_1988 said:

I think it's fair to say recruitment has gone wrong in the last few windows.  I won't revisit all names as you've done a good summary of each signing there. 

I will forgive last summers as we basically had to rebuild the team in a month after losing Jack, Hayes etc in time for the Euro qualifiers.  January is also a shite time to recruit.

The summer just past is more concerning.  I think we did miss out on several of our top targets which can happen but our plan B is clearly not great.  Forrester and Gleeson could go down as Mcinnes' biggest recruitment failings as manager if they don't improve soon.  He's obviously signed plenty of crap players but generally they've been signed as squad fillers.  These two were clearly earmarked as first teamers given the investment in them and neither of them seem capable of getting a game just now.  Nor have I seen anything from them to suggest they deserve it.

Saying that, I think our squad is nowhere near as bad as some people think.  We have the basis of a good team if we could just get consistency of selection and build a bit of momentum.  The season has felt very stop start in terms of injuries, suspensions, performances and results, something which we're not used to under Mcinnes.

I do think questions need to be asked tactically of Mcinnes, particularly in big games.  There is a consistent theme to all of the big game failures we've had.  We seem to want to ease our way in to the big games.  Just get through the first half without taking too much damage and then we get going.  Problem is, teams like Hearts on Saturday came out the blocks at 100mph and by the time we woke up we were 2-0 down.  I just think we need to be braver in these situations, starting of course on Sunday.

I am a little worried that if Sunday goes badly then Mcinnes will lose a huge chunk of our support and we'll be back into a situation similar to the latter days of Jimmy Calderwood's reign.  Could be a really pivotal moment in the season.

Agreed. 

A huge chunk of our budget have been squandered on the likes of May, Forrester and Gleeson. It's particularly concerning when Hearts, Hibs and Rangers have recruited very well. We have been outperformed by all three this season, both in head to head games and in the league table. Rangers is perhaps understandable in that they are able to make £1 million+ signings but I'd be surprised if Hearts' and Hibs' playing budgets are larger than ours. I wouldn't say we have a bad squad but we have stagnated/regressed since the 16/17 season whereas our rivals have all improved. 

I think an issues with the support is that there's nothing new or exciting at the moment. We've beaten the lower teams in the leagues very regularly under McInnes and this has become the norm. We still approach the bigger games in an incredibly negative way and this does nothing to excite the support. McInnes has taken us to good levels in the league, cups and in Europe but if we've stagnated in each of these competitions recently and if this doesn't change then more fans are going to lose faith. The Calderwood comparison is fairly valid, he raised standards at the club but after a lack of progress, the fans started to lose interest (albeit McInnes has delivered a trophy, 2nd place finishes and just the one lower league cup exit).

[Rodhull]

I think McInnes has really struggled tactically this season. Largely because of the poor recruitment. We've gone from having not enough deep lying midfielders last season and McLean having to play there to now having too many and nobody being able to play further forward. It's clear we either missed out on someone for the number 10 role or he thought Forrester was the answer and he's underperformed massively. His unwillingness to play Shinnie at left back and lose him from midfield (and also now signing Lowe) means there's too many bodies for that position and so so guys like Gleeson and Forrester haven't been able to get a run of games going to even try and get some form going. Whether they're apable of outplaying Shinnie in that position is debatable but it doesn't seem likely we'll ever find out. Wright has looked promising when he's been available in that role but going by how little he used him last year I don't see that being anything more than a happy accident for Mcinnes. 

Ferguson has been one of the few positives this season but as good as he's been he doesn't necessarily suit McInnes preferred style of play. He's not defensive enough to sit deep but also not attacking enough to be in the attacking mid/number 10 role either. McInnes has tried to move away from the 4-2-3-1 formation as we don't seem to have the players to suit it but most times he's tried to do it the team looks lost and has started hoofing it long far more than we used to.