Are You Anti-Semitic?

[ICTChris]

Who decided Jews are a ethnic group? Are Muslims an ethnic group?

Some proof of your claims would be useful.

Also, proof that it is difficult to 'convert' to Judaism. I'm not saying you just turn up at a synagogue and hey presto but if someone really wanted to 'convert' I'd be surprised if they were turned away.

BTW do ethnic groups have denominations?

I'm not really sure what proof I can provide that Jews are an ethnic group. Jews were originally a group in the Middle East who, due to various factors, were spread across North Africa and Europe. Genetic studies have been carried out that show that the various Jewish denominations (Ashkenazi etc) are to some degree inter-related. Here's a link to one - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC18733/.

In terms of converting to Judaism it is difficult and if you showed up at a synagogue they would be very, very unlikely to accept you as a convert. Judaism isn't a proselytizing religion, unlike Christianity or Islam. Converting to Judaism requires a period of study, acceptance by a panel of rabbis and then circumcision (if you are male) etc. Here's a link to a website answer about conversion to Judaism - http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/857823/jewish/Should-I-Convert-to-Judaism.htm

The gap between Jews and Judaism and if Jewishness is ethnicity or a religion is a strange business really. There were cases in London where children from observent Jewish families were refused entry to a Jewish school because that particular branch of Judaism didn't see them as Jews while completely non-observant, bacon-sandwich-munching, Shabat-fire-lighting, families were accepted due to being from an acceptable lineage. Ethnicity as a whole concept is a pretty flaky concept if you ask me - as that survey points out Jews and Arabs are really very similar ethnic groups, to the extent that there's not much of a scientific difference.

Muslims aren't an ethnic group at all - anyone can be a Muslim by accepting that there is only one God and that that Allah is his prophet - and the other pillars of Islamic belief.

In terms of anti-Semitism much of the anti-Semitic material produced by anti-Semites mixes religious ant-Semitism (less prevelant today but focusing on Jews killing Christ and rejecting Jesus etc) with ethnic / racial anti-Semitism (hook noses, dark skinned, horribly ugly Jewish cariactures). The two themes are often mixed up but most of the 20th century Jew-haters didn't particularly care about what Jews did or didn't do to Jesus.

[ICTChris]

When you say ethnic, do you mean genetic? If so that's very dubious. I'd lay a bet that there's a closer link to the BC inhabitants of Israel with current Palestinians than with the Jewish immigrants to Israel of the last half century.

Probably but ethnicity is a flaky concept really. It's difficult to say who is more related to people who lived 2000 years ago but there are studies that show that the different Jewish populations are genetically linked.

[invergowrie arab]

No it isn't. Jews are an ethnic group - not all Jews are followers of Judaism. It's also pretty difficult to convert to most denominations of Judaism. While it's possible there isn't a Jewish version of the Alpha course.

Saturday, Donny, is Shabbos, the Jewish day of rest. That means that I don't work, I don't drive a car, I don't fucking ride in a car, I don't handle money, I don't turn on the oven, and I sure as shit *don't fucking roll*!

.

[tamthebam]

I don't wear vests so I must be anti-simmit-ic.

[DAVE M]

I can't say much about Jews because I don't know enough,... but spurs fans are definitely iffy at best.

[adam4267]

It always surprises me how non-anti-semitic folk are on here. Not that the average Scot is a rabid anti-semite but there are a fair few. P&B = guid c***s

[SodjesSixteenIncher]

The survey gauged anti-Semitism by asking whether respondents agreed with an index of 11 statements that the ADL believes suggest anti-Jewish bias

The most commonly held stereotype among the ADL’s list of 11 statements was that Jews are more loyal to Israel than to their home country

Related Stories

• Survey: 74% of French Jews mulling emigration

Might have a point there tbh.

[Romeo]

Saturday, Donny, is Shabbos

.

?

[Jacksgranda]

I'm not really sure what proof I can provide that Jews are an ethnic group. Jews were originally a group in the Middle East who, due to various factors, were spread across North Africa and Europe. Genetic studies have been carried out that show that the various Jewish denominations (Ashkenazi etc) are to some degree inter-related. Here's a link to one - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC18733/.

In terms of converting to Judaism it is difficult and if you showed up at a synagogue they would be very, very unlikely to accept you as a convert. Judaism isn't a proselytizing religion, unlike Christianity or Islam. Converting to Judaism requires a period of study, acceptance by a panel of rabbis and then circumcision (if you are male) etc. Here's a link to a website answer about conversion to Judaism - http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/857823/jewish/Should-I-Convert-to-Judaism.htm

The gap between Jews and Judaism and if Jewishness is ethnicity or a religion is a strange business really. There were cases in London where children from observent Jewish families were refused entry to a Jewish school because that particular branch of Judaism didn't see them as Jews while completely non-observant, bacon-sandwich-munching, Shabat-fire-lighting, families were accepted due to being from an acceptable lineage. Ethnicity as a whole concept is a pretty flaky concept if you ask me - as that survey points out Jews and Arabs are really very similar ethnic groups, to the extent that there's not much of a scientific difference.

Muslims aren't an ethnic group at all - anyone can be a Muslim by accepting that there is only one God and that that Allah is his prophet - and the other pillars of Islamic belief.

In terms of anti-Semitism much of the anti-Semitic material produced by anti-Semites mixes religious ant-Semitism (less prevelant today but focusing on Jews killing Christ and rejecting Jesus etc) with ethnic / racial anti-Semitism (hook noses, dark skinned, horribly ugly Jewish cariactures). The two themes are often mixed up but most of the 20th century Jew-haters didn't particularly care about what Jews did or didn't do to Jesus.

Is Allah not God and Mohammed the prophet, no?

[Tamdunk]

I have 1 Jewish friend, he now lives in Japan and wasn't at all religious, so I guess it would be like calling me a Christian, just because I've been christened.

[th1stleandr0se]

The problem most people have with the Jews is that they perceive them to be a closed race, working secretly behind the scenes to help each other take control over certain aspects of business whether it be the music and movie business or financial markets. It's seen as a Masonic-style closed club. Most mediaeval cities had a Ghetto or Jewish quarter- they didn't mix. It's this mystery about the grouping which made them the target of mass-hysteria whenever some other factor caused problems. It was always the Jews who were to blame, a convenient target.

As regards the race versus religion aspect they have their hard-liners who think that it's a race and only purity down the female line makes you Jewish and the others who think it's a religion you can convert to. Interestingly, the Holocaust was about a "master race" trying to eliminate "God's chosen people", two groups who considered themselves superior to all others i.e. racists.

The Jews even have their own Proddie/Cafflik schism with the Sephardics and Ashkenazy groupings although I don't know enough about it to know which ones are the Proddies.

I used to work with a Jewish guy, great bloke, which is how I know a wee bit about this. He was an Atheist but still considered himself a Jew through race.

[Newbornbairn]

The thing I've never understood is they (and Christians and Muslims) believe man was made in God's image and that God is infallible, So why do they cut the foreskin off then? Did God make a mistake? Is their God circumcised?

[Jacksgranda]

The thing I've never understood is they (and Christians and Muslims) believe man was made in God's image and that God is infallible, So why do they cut the foreskin off then? Did God make a mistake? Is their God circumcised?

Genesis Ch 17, vs 9 - 14

[Florentine_Pogen]

Genesis Ch 17, vs 9 - 14

f**k Genesis.

Pink Floyd - Kings of Prog............

[cults_sheep]

[Granny Danger]

I'm not really sure what proof I can provide that Jews are an ethnic group.

Seems strange to make the assertion then. There have been claims about genetic groups but these have been challenged. To me, and I suspect to most people, a Jew is a follower of Judaism in the same way that a Christian is a follower of Christianity. Though we know how wide the interpretation of that can be.

The thing I've never understood is they (and Christians and Muslims) believe man was made in God's image and that God is infallible, So why do they cut the foreskin off then? Did God make a mistake? Is their God circumcised?

Problem with that question is that you are trying to rationalise religious belief. Can't be done.

[Newbornbairn]

Problem with that question is that you are trying to rationalise religious belief. Can't be done.

Looking at the Wiki page on it (I know, I know), one possible reason for circumcision is defeated men taken captive or subjugated had their dicks snipped as a permanent sign of their conquered status. Weren't the Jews kept as slaves by the Egyptians? Is it possible that they've taken something forced upon them and adopted it as a badge of honour, re-writing their woo-woo scripts to reflect this?

Also - why don't Christians do this? It's the same woo-woo book after all.

[BossHogg]

Is Allah not God and Mohammed the prophet, no?

yeah...Allah the prophet! really knows his stuff eh!

[jmothecat]

It always surprises me how non-anti-semitic folk are on here. Not that the average Scot is a rabid anti-semite but there are a fair few. P&B = guid c***s

There was a survey doing the rounds (possibly by the ADL actually) that was looking at Anti-Semitic prejudice and it showed that the UK as a whole is one of the least anti-Semitic place in the world. That, added to the further notion that Scotland (Christian denominations aside) is regarded as being more tolerant than the rest of the UK probably means we are amongst the least anti-Semitic in the world.

Having lived in various parts of the world I've found the UK generally I be one of the most accepting and unprejudiced places I've ever been. Despite loo attic groups like the BNP and UKIP doing relatively well I think genuine prejudice here is small, even smaller than in the 'socialist paradise' of Scandinavia.

[ICTChris]

Going by the Hewbrew Bible God told Abraham to circumcise himself and his sons. I think it was to differentiate them from the other tribes, although I'm unsure if all the pre-Abrahamic Middle Eastern people went around with their willies out.