Scottish Teams in Europe - Post Mortem

[Miguel Sanchez]

2/10 for effort

[Eednud]

Something wrong when we only have 1 club left and there are still 4 Cypriot clubs left incl. 1 in Champions League.

[the jambo-rocker]

A part of me has been thinking about how good it would be to have some variation of the Cup winners cup back in the running, because I still feel that with 54 association being represented, and roughly 25(last three seasons have been 24, 25, 29ish) in the Europa league, that there still should be an emphasis in getting more countries involved for longer in Europe (mainly us from a biased standpoint).

I know that financially it would almost seem pointless, especially compared to the lack of hype around the UEFA cup in comparison to the CL. Honestly, I don't think clubs would care as much about the money side, because if clubs in the qualifying (and I don't imagine they get that much money in the qualifying stages) are looking at it anything like we are, just want to play in Europe full stop.

[H_B]

Hard to see any of our diddy sides making it to the EL group stages the way the seedings work out.

We probably need a third competition established for the dross of Europe.

[mizfit]

please just return to trolling the independence forum, you are a terrible poster, on a par with magee.

[williemillersmoustache]

Following on from my dabbles with cous cous I have recently returned to buying soup at lunchtime. Usually reserved for the winter months i find even during the summer a warm broth or chowder can be both filling and satisfying without being uncomfortable in the balmy weather we are having.

Of course the danger of wanting bread as an accompaniment and upping my carb levels is ever present but that is a risk I am willing to take.

[realmadrid]

Hard to see any of our diddy sides making it to the EL group stages the way the seedings work out.

We probably need a third competition established for the dross of Europe.

Just wait until next year, the system is changing again and the chances of the smaller nations making the group stages are reduced further

16 teams quality direct, those being the cup winners from the top 12 associations, plus the 4th placed team from the 4th ranked nation and the 5th placed team from those ranked 1-3

if you then add on the 10 losers from the champions league play off round that leaves 22 qualifying places.

The first round has now been extended to 104 teams with next season the team who finish second and third in our Premiership entering at round 1 and the cup winners (winners only from now on) entering at round 2. If the cup winner wins the league the league runner up will enter in round 2.

When you add in the Champions league drop outs coming into the play off round (15 teams) the chances of any small team making it to the groups are now going to be non existent going forward.

Getting into the top 15 would help Scotland but where the points are going to come from I don't know.

The system can be seen here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015%E2%80%9316_UEFA_Europa_League

[nsr]

There is now a Scottish team still in the Champions League so I assume this means we are ok again and there is nothing to worry about.

[Ross.]

Seen a few mentions of Luzern having a budget around 20x the size of St Johnstones. Where are folk getting that figure? I'm sure I've seen their budget quoted at about 16m chf, which is around £11m. Is the Saints budget really only around £600k?

[RandomGuy.]

Seen a few mentions of Luzern having a budget around 20x the size of St Johnstones. Where are folk getting that figure? I'm sure I've seen their budget quoted at about 16m chf, which is around £11m. Is the Saints budget really only around £600k?

It was rumoured to be £800k last season, and since then we've lost Clancy, Cregg, Hasselbaink, Iwelumo and Dunne. Hasselbaink was rumoured to be one of our higher earners. The chairman claims the wage bill has gone up despite this, but I refuse to believe that.

[H_B]

Just wait until next year, the system is changing again and the chances of the smaller nations making the group stages are reduced further

16 teams quality direct, those being the cup winners from the top 12 associations, plus the 4th placed team from the 4th ranked nation and the 5th placed team from those ranked 1-3

if you then add on the 10 losers from the champions league play off round that leaves 22 qualifying places.

The first round has now been extended to 104 teams with next season the team who finish second and third in our Premiership entering at round 1 and the cup winners (winners only from now on) entering at round 2. If the cup winner wins the league the league runner up will enter in round 2.

When you add in the Champions league drop outs coming into the play off round (15 teams) the chances of any small team making it to the groups are now going to be non existent going forward.

Getting into the top 15 would help Scotland but where the points are going to come from I don't know.

The system can be seen here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015%E2%80%9316_UEFA_Europa_League

That's pretty depressing really.

Our diddy clubs battle hard for an EL place and really what were looking for is a 'glamour' tie in the qualifiers where we lose and have a decent away trip.

Id like to see a Fairs Cup type competition for the lower ranked European nations. straight knock out... 128 teams . so if you make it through to say the last round of qualifying for the EL you fall into this.

[H_B]

It was rumoured to be £800k last season, and since then we've lost Clancy, Cregg, Hasselbaink, Iwelumo and Dunne. Hasselbaink was rumoured to be one of our higher earners. The chairman claims the wage bill has gone up despite this, but I refuse to believe that.

There is absolutely no way the St Johnstone playing budget is less than 1.5 million. Probably more than that.

Falkirk were above that level in the Eddie May season several years ago.

[H_B]

In fact this is total and utter baws.

St Johnstone s wage bill was 2.5 million in 2010. Rising to 2.7 million in 2011.

It will be around the same now. So as expected the 20 times our wage bill claim is shite. Still a fine victory though.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CCEQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fpwc.blogs.com%2Ffiles%2F2012---financial-review-of-spl-football2010-11_final.pdf&rct=j&q=pwc%20report%20dcottish%20football&ei=eNTlU9DTEqPX7Aat2YHwDQ&usg=AFQjCNHypyaEQI0RHgluFb_abXSHeS_bZA&bvm=bv.72676100,d.ZGU

[Johnstoun]

Playing budget and wage bill are 2 different things, we will have more backroom staff than many clubs, but I agree with you that I can't see our 1st team wages being as low as £800k.

[RandomGuy.]

Its based on an interview with Lomas, who announced we had a budget of £1.6m when he took over, which was cut to £1.1m, then was being cut to £800k last Summer and thats why he left the moment another club came in for him. Steve Brown has said the wages have stayed around the same due to contract extensions, but that sounds ridiculous. Those Saints fans more in the know than me agree with those figures.

For what its worth we're down to a squad of 15 or so senior players, with one of this combining a coaching role with playing duties. The rest are players promoted from the youth or on loan

[H_B]

Playing budget and wage bill are 2 different things, we will have more backroom staff than many clubs, but I agree with you that I can't see our 1st team wages being as low as £800k.

Agreed but players are the biggest cost obviously.

[Mastermind]

After the embarrassment of being reinstated into the CL qualifying stages following the humiliation over two legs by Legia Warsaw, our best team have now been dumped out by some Slovenians.

Even Cyprus and Belarus can easily get club teams through to the Champions League group stages, what are we doing so utterly wrong?

After last season, I genuinely didn't think Scottish football could sink any lower on the European stage, but somehow its happened.

[HibeeJibee]

Celtic are useless, that's what went wrong... No doubt some tabloids will blame "preparation" or "lack of challenge" or "poor Scots youth development", but that's all guff. Their resources dwarf Maribor and the season's well underway. They blew it. Spectacularly.

If they can progress in EL, things will be OK in terms of the coefficient, and the ultimate picture from the season would be reasonable if disappointing... On Celtic's recent displays, I wouldn't stake much on that happening, though.

However, you speak as if it's a handwringing, tear-inducing all-time low. Pull yourself together.

[Ross.]

Celtic are useless, that's what went wrong... No doubt some tabloids will blame "preparation" or "lack of challenge" or "poor Scots youth development", but that's all guff. Their resources dwarf Maribor and the season's well underway. They blew it. Spectacularly.

If they can progress in EL, things will be OK in terms of the coefficient, and the ultimate picture from the season would be reasonable if disappointing... On Celtic's recent displays, I wouldn't stake much on that happening, though.

However, you speak as if it's a handwringing, tear-inducing all-time low. Pull yourself together.

Agree with all of this.

Regards the resources, it has been a fairly consistent occurrence that Celtic(And at times, other Scottish sides) appear to get terrible value for money when it comes to what they spend. Legia had approximately 1/4 of Celtic's turnover, and Maribor I think around 1/10th, but man for man both sides were technically better, more tactically aware and quicker to the ball. There are massive issues at Celtic with how badly they manage what they do have.

[hellbhoy]

This fine country that produced such great players and clubs is now reduced to diddy status.

Some may argue but the EPL has certainly made such a negative impact on our game robbing our clubs of their best players for a pittance and suddenly somehow these players become worth ten times more just because they play in the EPL. You only have to look at the EPL and the Championship flooded with probably over 90% of our best home grown talent.

The EPL bubble must burst first if our clubs have any chance of holding onto our best players before things get any better, if our clubs can afford to keep their best players then there will be change for the better as the leagues become more competitive. I mean with Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen etc etc etc retaining the services of promising youngsters that will blossom in our leagues to become cult or folk legends in the future.

Scottish football is at quite possibly the all time low it has ever been where the associations that run our games can't hype up any future product if there is investment but are happy to take the pennies from the change from the pounds they didn't spend on the EPL.

It is sad to see especially at the other clubs that aren't a Rangers or Celtic, every time they produce someone special it is only a matter of months before they are gone and benched in the EPL/Championship for years hampering their true potential.

The only problem is money and the lack of it whilst another country has so much more to spend in our leagues.