Urban Gorilla Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Celtic get their draw then, which means Scotland will remain in 23rd at least for the 2016/17 season. Would need to win at least 4 games in this campaign to catch Denmark in 22nd place. They still have Aalborg in Europe but they lost 3-1 at home tonight to Club Brugge. Where can you view the list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Leyenda Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Where can you view the list? http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/crank2015.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realmadrid Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Celtic get their draw then, which means Scotland will remain in 23rd at least for the 2016/17 season. Would need to win at least 4 games in this campaign to catch Denmark in 22nd place. They still have Aalborg in Europe but they lost 3-1 at home tonight to Club Brugge. The Results for the rest of season won't now make that much difference now. The Danes drop a big score at the start of next season so we will rise above them in July anyway. Scottish points seem to be pretty static but others seems to have one good year that boosts things over the 5 year cycle. With the new system from next year putting more teams from those at the top directly into the groups the chances of Aberdeen etc making the group stages again are less than this year. In truth it's all set up for the big 6 or 7 associations and the rest of us are there to make up the numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Leyenda Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 The Results for the rest of season won't now make that much difference now. The Danes drop a big score at the start of next season so we will rise above them in July anyway. Scottish points seem to be pretty static but others seems to have one good year that boosts things over the 5 year cycle. With the new system from next year putting more teams from those at the top directly into the groups the chances of Aberdeen etc making the group stages again are less than this year. In truth it's all set up for the big 6 or 7 associations and the rest of us are there to make up the numbers. Hard to say this early until we see who all qualifies, but it may actually help us. Firstly, countries are only getting a maximum of 3 Europa League entrants now. So that's one less team from the likes of Russia, Ukraine or Holland in the qualifiers who used to have 4. Secondly, Belgian, Greece, Turkey, Ukraine and Holland (think it's that five) will all see their cup winners go into the groups now along with the usual top 7, so again that's a few less strong opponents in the qualifiers. The problem for Scotland is the low coefficients for everyone. Out of all our likely qualifiers, everyone would be seeded for QR1 but unseeded for QR2. Dundee United though could actually be seeded for QR2, but in a quirky fate would be unseeded for QR3 while the other Scottish clubs could be seeded if they beat an opponent with a good coefficient (Aberdeen/Groningen were one place away from being seeded for QR3 this season, and think St Johnstone were seeded but then lost to an unseeded team). So, it might help us a wee bit, maybe to at least help progression to the play-off round, but if anyone does make it there they'll likely need to cause a major shock to make the groups. But, small steps and that. If we can get our sides at least getting to the play-off round it boosts their seeding and gets Scotland a few coefficient points. It could accumulate and give us something to go on in a few seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realmadrid Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 There are now just 32 club left in Europe following last nights ties and all of them come from the top 12 leagues in the current UEFA rankings with 20 of the 32 coming from the top 4 associations. Its then little surprise to see all of our teams eliminated before March and it appears the elite are getting further away from the rest each season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Reports on Bert Kassies that UEFA are going to abolish the Fair Play places after this season replacing them with financial payments, and the likeliest outcome is that the cup winners of positions 24-26 will move up from QR1 to QR2 starting 2016-17. I imagine we'd potentially fall into that territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realmadrid Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 I'd hope we would not fall that low down the rankings and would just move around the 15-20 range in time It could work against Scotland in that those who have gained these places have their score divided by an extra place so this season every point the Swedish teams got was divided by 5 rather than 4 for Scotland. Yes they had more chance to get points but the fail play teams tend to go out at the first or second qualifying rounds so in effect make that nations coefficient worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionel hutz Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 If the top 4 right now are the 4 that are in Europe next season: (If cup winners are Celtic then 2nd plac is given EL2 spot)Celtic CL Q2Aberdeen EL Q2Inverness EL Q1Dundee United EL Q1Personally, I think Celtic should get to the UCL GS so if they won 4/6 of the Prelim. games and W2 D1 L3 of there GS matches that would be:1 x 4 = 4(2 x 2) + 1 = 5Bonus = 4 CL Total = 14 If United got to R3, Aberdeen R3 and ICT R2: Utd: (1 x 4) + 1/2 = 4.5 Aberdeen: (1 x 2) + 1/2 = 2.5ICT: (1 x 2) = 2 EL Total = 9 Total Points = 23Coefficient Points = 5.75 Assuming everyone else does the same as last year, it would take Scotland to around 20th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 There's absolutely no question that St Johnstone's elimination to Alaskhert of Armenia is worse that Dundee Utd's exist to MyPa of Finland, none at all IMO. No Scottish club had ever been eliminated at the hands of teams from the likes of Northern Ireland, Malta, Faroe Islands, Armenia, Andorra, San Marino or Gibraltar until last night so it sets a new low. There are no mitigations (e.g. St Johnstone weren't a cup runnerup relegated to SFL1 nor Fair Play entrants - Alaskhert haven't had an injection of quality players nor are they halfway through the season). It surpasses defeat to the likes of Icelandic, ex-Yugoslav and Eire opposition who are a cut above true diddyness. It's our worst defeat to a minnow ever. What it doesn't necessarily surpass, IMO, is the separate category of "utter hidings from middling to half-decent opponents". e.g. Hibs-Malmo, Celtic-Artmedia, Aberdeen-Sigma. It's sad. Let's kick this thread into life again. HibeeJibee has spoken and declared St Johnstone's defeat to some Armenian mob as Scotland's new low.Do you agree? Was it worse than Gretna's efforts? Worse than Aberdeen losing to Bohemians? Worse than Skonto Riga? Worse than the various Scottish teams who have lost to a bunch of fishermen and foreign posties? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Still not convinced going out on away goals to an Armenian side is worse than losing 6-2 to Maribor or or 9-0 to Malmo tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 HJ is just utterly desperate to have a worse score than the Malmo one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpoonTon Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Still not convinced going out on away goals to an Armenian side is worse than losing 6-2 to Maribor or or 9-0 to Malmo tbh It's certainly worse than the Maribor tie. We'll get a better idea in a couple of weeks time just how bad this one was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Leyenda Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Let's kick this thread into life again. HibeeJibee has spoken and declared St Johnstone's defeat to some Armenian mob as Scotland's new low. Do you agree? Was it worse than Gretna's efforts? Worse than Aberdeen losing to Bohemians? Worse than Skonto Riga? Worse than the various Scottish teams who have lost to a bunch of fishermen and foreign posties? If this was September or even August, and St Johnstone had a proper summer, pre-season, signings made and the team gelled, then it would be a lot worse. But this early into July everyone is fair game, and shocks will happen. They're unlucky. They were level on aggregate and went out, but Aberdeen were level and went through. Both ties should have gone to extra-time. The Old Firm getting humiliated despite spending millions is worse than anything any other club has mustered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewh Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 If this was September or even August, and St Johnstone had a proper summer, pre-season, signings made and the team gelled, then it would be a lot worse. But this early into July everyone is fair game, and shocks will happen. They're unlucky. They were level on aggregate and went out, but Aberdeen were level and went through. Both ties should have gone to extra-time. The Old Firm getting humiliated despite spending millions is worse than anything any other club has mustered. First sensible post.Regardless of what is said everything amounts to an opinion. HJ may think that quoting stats equals facts but it doesn't. As it turns out it may be no bad thing that we are out. Gives time to try to sort out all our injuries and properly prepare for the first league match. A 9000 mile round trip and a potential heavy defeat might not have helped our cause much. While we're looking at easy games, how about Slovan's 9-0 aggregate win, Zilina's 7-1, Vaduz's 10-1, Bialystok's 9-0, Brondby's 11-0, and Trakai's 7-1. I wonder if any of them would've beaten Alashkert by such large margins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpoonTon Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 If this was September or even August, and St Johnstone had a proper summer, pre-season, signings made and the team gelled, then it would be a lot worse. But this early into July everyone is fair game, and shocks will happen. They're unlucky. They were level on aggregate and went out, but Aberdeen were level and went through. Both ties should have gone to extra-time. The Old Firm getting humiliated despite spending millions is worse than anything any other club has mustered. Alaskhert are at the same point in their pre-season as St Johnstone. Are you saying that a team like St Johnstone needs the advantage of being a month into the season to beat an Armenian team? It would look slightly better if they weren't 1-0 up when Alaskhert went down to 10 men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DensParkNumber1 Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Is it the worst? nah wouldnt say so, celtic and rangers(RIP) have lost to some real poor sides . Would be in the top 5 though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elixir Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Leyenda Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Alaskhert are at the same point in their pre-season as St Johnstone. Are you saying that a team like St Johnstone needs the advantage of being a month into the season to beat an Armenian team? It would look slightly better if they weren't 1-0 up when Alaskhert went down to 10 men. No, I'm saying St Johnstone at their best would beat Alashkert at their best. I didn't watch the second leg right enough but I did see the first leg - that St Johnstone performance is no-where near what they're capable of, and I saw a lot of St Johnstone last season. I'm guessing Alashkert wouldn't be able to go up as many notches. Likewise, if Aberdeen were to play Shkendija again in November, I reckon it'd be a comfortable win for the Dons. However at this stage of the season you're lucky if five of your players are playing anywhere near what they're capable of, and it's a great leveller, and everyone is vulnerable. Scotland weren't the only country to suffer shock results this week. It happens. It's not all St Johnstone's fault - they were put in a very difficult situation If we're going to have clubs starting this early. and it looks like that will be the case for at least the next five years, then we should be looking to start the season earlier to help get our clubs up to speed. In a non-world cup year why not start in July? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 It's not even remotely "a very difficult situation" to know that you'll be playing European football in the first two weeks of July again, having experience of similar ties in recent years - and manage to be seeded against a Junior-size rabble from one of the bottom-ranked leagues in Europe. The onus is on the participant clubs to find a means of getting their early start to a pre-season right, rather than shifting 30-odd clubs' preparations because one or two sometimes make an arse of their European tie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewh Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Heard that it was at Strachan's request that the season extended to 30 May this season - 2 weeks later than the previous year. Something to do with Scotland players having less of a gap between the season end and qualifying matches. There's 2 unnecessary weeks of matches to help the national team, but put our Europa league qualifying round qualifiers at a disadvantage. Can't stand internationals myself. Waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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