The Arbroath Thread

[ExiledLichtie]

2 minutes ago, Hammerafc said:

You say lack of strikers but we have 2 signed currently with another 2 in Dow and Stowe who can play on forward positions in support of the strikers and also Murray that can do a job in a support role. Having the 2 strikers has obviously been a big issue in these games but to say we were planning on playing the 2 strikers for 90 minutes in every game is definitely naive.

A lot of the time when playing 2 up top you will play with a "10" who isn't always a striker. Playing with 2 forwards doesn't mean you don't change the shape during the game or play 1 of the forwards in a deeper in a support role.

If both strikers had been fit going into this competition I don't think many would have mentioned it. Also to say people were happy to lose McKenna is just not true. Every supporter would have wanted him to stay but could understand why he chose to move. It wasn't like he wasn't offered a new deal. 

We had spells before under Campbell where we were playing McCord as the striker or Linn due to injuries and suspensions. It happens to clubs all the time.

If we end the transfer window in the same position then that is when to have the conversation.

Which would all make sense, and I'd agree with that, but the exact same people who are now saying this are those that were saying just a few weeks ago that McKenna wouldn't fit into our "new" way of playing, and so he would apparently be no great loss.  

[Michael W]

46 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

Keith Watson very decent on the face of it? 

Yes. A good player for us last season and the defence suffered greatly when he wasn't in it. 

Unfortunately, his is highly prone to injury and missed too much of the season. Hopefully the reduced physical demands mean that he won't miss so many matches. 

[RedLichtie86]

Happy with the Watson signing. Experienced and available to play. Offers us options at the back and during set pieces.

With 7 defenders now I can see Walker potentially moving on by the end of the transfer window (Depends if there are long term injuries) to free up wages for another player to come in.  Though would be happy to keep him considering our luck with injuries this past year.

Hopefully another singing to come in soon to bolster the squad ahead of the Stenny game. A striker is priority now.

 

[Hammerafc]

Maybe more to come today based on the first WhatsApp post?

[renton]

7 minutes ago, RedLichtie86 said:

Happy with the Watson signing. Experienced and available to play. Offers us options at the back and during set pieces.

With 7 defenders now I can see Walker potentially moving on by the end of the transfer window (Depends if there are long term injuries) to free up wages for another player to come in.  Though would be happy to keep him considering our luck with injuries this past year.

Hopefully another singing to come in soon to bolster the squad ahead of the Stenny game. A striker is priority now.

 

Therein lies the issue with Keith Watson. Hopefully he does cope better with the demands of league 1. A good player and seems like a decent guy as well.

[1320Lichtie]

1 minute ago, renton said:

Therein lies the issue with Keith Watson. Hopefully he does cope better with the demands of league 1. A good player and seems like a decent guy as well.

Obviously had his issues last season but playing 21 times in one season season would be gladly accepted here with how bad an injury crisis we have been through recently 

 

Only looked back to 2020/21 but pretty consistent number of games in all seasons previous. Season before you lads 34 games in the Prem.

 

I will start saying a prayer for his health before bed the night and hopefully it all works out for him here.  

[timlichtie]

2 hours ago, 1320Lichtie said:

McCord was the best chubby number 9 in all of the country. 

The fat ginger man,

He was better than Zidane.

Edited July 25 by timlichtie

[Hammerafc]

An addition of a player with a bit of flair that can make something happen out of nothing like McCord, Swankie, Linn would give this team a massive boost.

[Specky Ginger]

3 hours ago, 1320Lichtie said:

Keith Watson very decent on the face of it? 

A proper old school defender. Just hope he gets an even break with injuries this season.

Rovers were generally much more solid with a fit Watson in the defence last season than without.

Cast your mind back to the Friday game in March (I don't want to) - as soon as Arbroath pulled a goal back our defence turned to shite. I'm willing to believe that if Watson hadn't gone off injured earlier in that game, we'd have seen it out.

[SimonLichtie]

2 hours ago, Tattie36 said:

i.e. We’ve heard it all before.

1 - This is the third pre season in a row where we’re hearing about how great our squad is only for deficiencies to be laid bare pretty quickly in the previous two years. Hopefully this season is different, there are definitely players of real quality that have been brought in, but I think it’s very easy to understand peoples concerns.

2 - You say we’ve had a decent pre season - have we really? is having “good shape” and being fit, scoring one goal and a single penalty win against a team in crisis really enough to qualify that? Has two years of misery meant that even a team doing the very basics is seen as something to shout about?

Personally, I’m trying really hard to stay positive and I feel a lot better about where we are than this time last season.

3 - McIntyre has shown that he can assemble what looks like a decent, competitive squad - does he have the ability though to turn the into a winning team?

1 - I think that's a really valid point to be honest - however as you state yourself, there are definitely players of real quality who have been brought in. We have a squad full of players who are proven quality at this level. I'm really excited to see Reilly/ Gallagher fully fit, and I'm looking forward to a season where we're actually looking to be on the front foot, which to be up the top end you obviously have to do. I'm also excited to see what we add further to the squad. We all seem to agree with have a good base squad, but that a few more are needed, and we all know they are going to come. In a months time, we should likely be looking at having two proven strikers at this level and a really exciting loan as well (I assume we'll bring in two more who can play up top, but lets say one doesn't work out).

2 - Pre-season is, for me, all about getting the shape/ structure within the team right (Dick pissed his pre-seasons up the wall with absurd formations/ players out of position) and getting everyone understanding their jobs within that. A few years ago we played a Monday night friendly in Perth against Jeanfield (I think, could be wrong) and Luke Donnelly ran the show in the centre of midfield and we won by 4/5. On the Saturday, Dick decided to go with it in a competitive game, and obviously it didn't work. This pre season we could've played a couple of these type of friendlies, but they'd have meant nothing. Useless for any level of sharpness/ fitness playing a team yards off what we'll play every week. Then when we hit the real stuff it turns out we're miles off it fitness wise because we've been having a jog around in our pre season games and that Ryan Dow and Mark Stowe aren't actually capable of bagging those hat-tricks they were getting the previous week. By playing against teams above our level in our first three games, the much higher intensity is far better fitness wise, and also shows us where we're at. In all three I felt we didn't fall out of the game fully in the latter stages as you'd expect, which was a really good sign. We also never particuarly looked in trouble in terms of our shape on and off the ball, and clearly there were things that had been worked on, such as Slater dropping deeper when Wilkie/ Bisland are pushing higher up the park as they have license to do.

3 - This is the absolute crux of it for me, absolutely nails it. I feel McIntyre has assembled a good squad, with more to come, and quite frankly if he can't get the squad he's put together in the top 4 of this league then he has to leave. If he'd put together a shitter squad (would obviously be entirely on him!) then I'd have much more understanding of the worries people have in July, but considering what we have there are two options - 1, he is able to get them winning games of football or 2, he leaves the club in September/ October. Quite simply, it is one or the other. Which means from latest November onwards we should have a manager capable of winning games of football; Jim McIntyre or somebody else.

 

[Tattie36]

1 hour ago, SimonLichtie said:

1 - I think that's a really valid point to be honest - however as you state yourself, there are definitely players of real quality who have been brought in. We have a squad full of players who are proven quality at this level. I'm really excited to see Reilly/ Gallagher fully fit, and I'm looking forward to a season where we're actually looking to be on the front foot, which to be up the top end you obviously have to do. I'm also excited to see what we add further to the squad. We all seem to agree with have a good base squad, but that a few more are needed, and we all know they are going to come. In a months time, we should likely be looking at having two proven strikers at this level and a really exciting loan as well (I assume we'll bring in two more who can play up top, but lets say one doesn't work out).

2 - Pre-season is, for me, all about getting the shape/ structure within the team right (Dick pissed his pre-seasons up the wall with absurd formations/ players out of position) and getting everyone understanding their jobs within that. A few years ago we played a Monday night friendly in Perth against Jeanfield (I think, could be wrong) and Luke Donnelly ran the show in the centre of midfield and we won by 4/5. On the Saturday, Dick decided to go with it in a competitive game, and obviously it didn't work. This pre season we could've played a couple of these type of friendlies, but they'd have meant nothing. Useless for any level of sharpness/ fitness playing a team yards off what we'll play every week. Then when we hit the real stuff it turns out we're miles off it fitness wise because we've been having a jog around in our pre season games and that Ryan Dow and Mark Stowe aren't actually capable of bagging those hat-tricks they were getting the previous week. By playing against teams above our level in our first three games, the much higher intensity is far better fitness wise, and also shows us where we're at. In all three I felt we didn't fall out of the game fully in the latter stages as you'd expect, which was a really good sign. We also never particuarly looked in trouble in terms of our shape on and off the ball, and clearly there were things that had been worked on, such as Slater dropping deeper when Wilkie/ Bisland are pushing higher up the park as they have license to do.

 

3 - This is the absolute crux of it for me, absolutely nails it. I feel McIntyre has assembled a good squad, with more to come, and quite frankly if he can't get the squad he's put together in the top 4 of this league then he has to leave. If he'd put together a shitter squad (would obviously be entirely on him!) then I'd have much more understanding of the worries people have in July, but considering what we have there are two options - 1, he is able to get them winning games of football or 2, he leaves the club in September/ October. Quite simply, it is one or the other. Which means from latest November onwards we should have a manager capable of winning games of football; Jim McIntyre or somebody else.

 

Yep. This is meant respectfully Simon but not many football fans are like you or look at games/teams/tactics/squads etc the same way that you do.

I would imagine that, universally there are 3 main things that football fans want from their team - 1. Wins/results, 2. Goals and 3. Entertaining football - in that order.

We have had pretty none of those for two calendar years now (with, to most people, little obvious sign of that changing). Our fans are watching defeat after defeat, no goals, objectively poor performances etc without looking at it in such analytical detail as you do. So to answer your original question again - that’s the reason why there’s negativity imo. Most fans don’t care if the balance or shape of the team is good, if we’ve just lost again.

As I said, football fans are fickle and I will be lauding Jim McIntyre if he pulls this off but, conversely, he deserves all the criticism he gets if he continues to fail.

Edited July 25 by Tattie36

[ExiledLichtie]

 Just a wee touch of revisionism there Simon.  For all your criticisms of the previous incumbent there, you were probably the last person on here to want the manager gone.  You also repeatedly brushed off any concerns that others had about squad sizes or unbalanced squads in previous seasons.   

[relichtie]

Listening to JMac after the ICT game it sounds like ToB, Dow, Hammy and possibly Gold are out for Sat. If the 2 strikers are added in that brings our 19 down to 13 assuming all the others are fit enough. Is this down to bad luck or bad management decisions?

[1320Lichtie]

1 minute ago, relichtie said:

Listening to JMac after the ICT game it sounds like ToB, Dow, Hammy and possibly Gold are out for Sat. If the 2 strikers are added in that brings our 19 down to 13 assuming all the others are fit enough. Is this down to bad luck or bad management decisions?

How can it be bad management to have 6 players injured after 3 games? 1/3rd of the players on the books, it is not just bad luck it’s disastrously bad horrendous luck. 

 

 

[lichtie23]

5 minutes ago, relichtie said:

Listening to JMac after the ICT game it sounds like ToB, Dow, Hammy and possibly Gold are out for Sat. If the 2 strikers are added in that brings our 19 down to 13 assuming all the others are fit enough. Is this down to bad luck or bad management decisions?

Are you being serious? 

[ExiledLichtie]

On 01/01/2024 at 11:53, ExiledLichtie said:

Football has changed, and our club was one of those that voted for those changes.  Players are less likely to play through the pain barrier now, because the sports science shows that this hurts us in the long term, so that means players are more likely to sit games out for knocks, and also get major issues sorted quicker.  Concussion rules mean that if a player gets a head knock, they are likely to need to be removed, and also sit games out.  More subs means the game is played at a higher intensity (my opinion, backed up by evidence from other sports) for longer, so when other clubs make subs and bring on fresh players, we need to do the same.  It means clubs need a larger squad to compete than we used to.    

I just did an unscientific survey by looking at some matchday squads for league 1 and 2 clubs, and it seems that other part time clubs down the ladder don't seem to have the same problems filling their bench. 

Still evergreen.

[SimonLichtie]

10 minutes ago, ExiledLichtie said:

 Just a wee touch of revisionism there Simon.  For all your criticisms of the previous incumbent there, you were probably the last person on here to want the manager gone.  You also repeatedly brushed off any concerns that others had about squad sizes or unbalanced squads in previous seasons.   

This one is really poor - well below your usual standards IMO. Demonstrably true to anyone who reads what I said. 

8 minutes ago, relichtie said:

Listening to JMac after the ICT game it sounds like ToB, Dow, Hammy and possibly Gold are out for Sat. If the 2 strikers are added in that brings our 19 down to 13 assuming all the others are fit enough. Is this down to bad luck or bad management decisions?

I'd see the argument if they were all training related, but it's entirely the opposite, none of them are training related. Gallagher had a niggling muscular injury when he signed, Reilly got a muscular injury during the first friendly, Hammy got whacked (I think, can't actually quite remember tbh), Goldie got whacked, Dowser got a muscular injury during a game as did ToB.

How could it be the managements fault?

[SimonLichtie]

2 minutes ago, ExiledLichtie said:

Still evergreen.

This is much better. Consistently quoting your own previous opinions really winds people up - I'd be surprised if this doesn't get a bite. Really should've added in something about anyone who didn't understand the obvious science having a brain injury though - that worked a charm before!  

[ecto]

That’s enough defenders, now a bit of creativity 

[relichtie]

5 minutes ago, SimonLichtie said:

This one is really poor - well below your usual standards IMO. Demonstrably true to anyone who reads what I said. 

I'd see the argument if they were all training related, but it's entirely the opposite, none of them are training related. Gallagher had a niggling muscular injury when he signed, Reilly got a muscular injury during the first friendly, Hammy got whacked (I think, can't actually quite remember tbh), Goldie got whacked, Dowser got a muscular injury during a game as did ToB.

How could it be the managements fault?

JMac must be the unluckiest manager we have ever had then