All things Dundee FC

[stu2910]

I reckon a safe seating section would end up like the Derry and become the 'place to be' regardless of the facilities that side of the ground offered. Did I read somewhere that we were forgoing the idea of filling in the corners now with the new stadium plan or am I making that up?

You’re probably right and anything up to 1500 could be full regularly.

And I saw that too but there was nothing else said about it. Reckon like most things the club does nowadays no one really knows yet.

[Meadow_Jock]

34 minutes ago, stu2910 said:

You’re probably right and anything up to 1500 could be full regularly.

And I saw that too but there was nothing else said about it. Reckon like most things the club does nowadays no one really knows yet.

As a fanbase I think you should all start lobbying in favour early and vociferously.

I'm a Shrewsbury fan (of Scottish extraction, hence why I'm on this forum), and the safe standing section we've just installed has hugely improved the noise levels in what was previously a very bland, typical modern stadium. 

I've seen people discussing the new Dundee stadium approvingly comparing it to places like Rotherham or Doncaster or Chesterfield or whatever like this is a good thing. It's not - they're all soulless wee Ikea stadiums surrounded by Superbowls and TGI Fridays instead of pubs. Yes they can generate a bit of a roar on derby day, but who can't? Most of the time they're just depressing. People slag off somewhere like Cappielow or Somerset Park - or indeed the Derry End - for being knackered, but for me these places are way preferable as they're part of the soul of their clubs in the way that new identikit grounds simply never can be....unless they're carefully built to be unique of course.

Fortunately it looks like Aberdeen are about to do the right thing and install standing in their new stadium, which will hopefully start a domino effect.

[locheedee]

1 hour ago, Ludo*1 said:

I reckon a safe seating section would end up like the Derry and become the 'place to be' regardless of the facilities that side of the ground offered. Did I read somewhere that we were forgoing the idea of filling in the corners now with the new stadium plan or am I making that up?

I've no idea what they're planning now tbh but there was definitely talk about ditching the corners from the original design - I think the cost wasn't thought to be worth it for the amount of seats we'd get...

That also puts the safe standing idea in doubt too, coz the original idea for that was to use one of the corners.

[Girth]

As a fanbase I think you should all start lobbying in favour early and vociferously.
I'm a Shrewsbury fan (of Scottish extraction, hence why I'm on this forum), and the safe standing section we've just installed has hugely improved the noise levels in what was previously a very bland, typical modern stadium. 
I've seen people discussing the new Dundee stadium approvingly comparing it to places like Rotherham or Doncaster or Chesterfield or whatever like this is a good thing. It's not - they're all soulless wee Ikea stadiums surrounded by Superbowls and TGI Fridays instead of pubs. Yes they can generate a bit of a roar on derby day, but who can't? Most of the time they're just depressing. People slag off somewhere like Cappielow or Somerset Park - or indeed the Derry End - for being knackered, but for me these places are way preferable as they're part of the soul of their clubs in the way that new identikit grounds simply never can be....unless they're carefully built to be unique of course.
Fortunately it looks like Aberdeen are about to do the right thing and install standing in their new stadium, which will hopefully start a domino effect.

Spot on mate. [emoji1319][emoji1319][emoji1319]

Edgar Street is still one of my favourite grounds (I am biased) and is a huge favourite for away fans. The place has barely changed since the seventies.

Whilst a club such as Shrewsbury should be commended for being the first English club to bring in safe standing. Let’s not forget their current stadium is not a patch on Gay Meadow and is a legoland type bowl on the edge of town. The club are obviously trying to turn from their mistakes.

Dundee need a little bit from column A and a little bit from column B.

The best grounds in the world are German clubs - why!? Beer in stadiums and old school terracing.

The gentrification of football is a dangerous thing. No one wants to become Arsenal and for football to turn into a prawn sandwich type cricket affair with polite claps when a goal goes in and library silence from the home fans when nothing happens.

I am on the scoops in France but I’d hate to see Dundee in a soulless bucket on the outside of town.

Thank you.

[Bigmouth Strikes Again]

You can't have people standing up enjoying themselves. pc plod will put an end to it.

[Meadow_Jock]

52 minutes ago, Girth said:

I’d hate to see Dundee in a soulless bucket on the outside of town.

 

 

So would I, mate. I've a lot of affection for Dens. It was the first Scottish ground I ever visited, back in the days when the  wooden benches ran all the way from the Derry End round the west of the stadium, and the Bob Shankley was an open terrace. However, it's a risk. Moving ground presents a real opportunity to generate new revenue, but it also represents a big threat to your club's identify. There are people who would have you believe that it's not worth spending money on the stadium when it could be spent on the squad. They're talking shite. Good players come and go, but a good ground is part of your matchday experience forever.  Out team quickly improved with the extra money generated by our move, but the matchday experience still became much less enjoyable.

At Shrewsbury ten years ago things were bleak. We had a shiny new doctor's waiting room next to a Sainsbury's for a stadium, our traditional badge had been replaced with a "modern" clipart version, and our traditional colours had been altered. The fans had to fight to fix all of this, but it would have been so much easier if these mistakes hadn't been made in the first place. 

One thing we still don't have and are still pissed off about is the lack of a supporters' bar. Essential in an out of town ground, and the only redeeming feature of Doncaster's new lego stadium. You need to all be pressuring the club to include stuff like this and safe standing now, whilst things are still in the planning stage, cos once things have been done it's hard to change them back.

One problem you might have is that at Dens, like the old Gay Meadow, your singer like to congregate on the side. When we moved stadiums they all wanted to stay there, in a corner by the away fans (a bit like at Motherwell) and it's way harder to generate a noise that resonates round our ground from there. Again, thinking carefully at the planning stage about where the singing section is going to be and how to go about filling it is definitely worth doing.

Good luck with it all!

Edited September 9, 2018 by Meadow_Jock

[Crawford]

The corners will be filled in.

Honestly it's going to look and be what they planned. It will look like the Viking stadion. If it goes any other direction will be towards the Vikings stadium and a huge class roof.

They are American. Bigger is better and could you imagine they toned down their plans and their friends found out?

Of dear that just won't do.

Remember folks. The Kilmac Stadium will not be just for Dundee FC. It's for concerts, other sports and the like. Less seats means less potential revenue. 

It's happening. Although I will miss catching an 18 and walking the full length of sandeman street past the tangerine rabels big white box this move will help Dundee reach the next level, attract more fans and revenue that just now we could only dream of.

[Ludo*1]

If I won the EuroMillions, how much do you think it'd take to buyout the Americans and renovate Dens? Asking for a dream I'll be having tonight.

[PauloPerth]

9 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

If I won the EuroMillions, how much do you think it'd take to buyout the Americans and renovate Dens? Asking for a dream I'll be having tonight.

I still think that would be Dundee's best bet, for many of the reasons the Shrewsbury fan states. Replace the Derry with a two tier stand the length of the pitch; safe standing bottom tier and seats above.  Supporters bar, hospitality etc.

A few seasons later the old Main Stand gets replaced. The ends are already fine, and likely not much different from what would be at the new ground. 

[locheedee]

33 minutes ago, Crawford said:

The corners will be filled in.

Honestly it's going to look and be what they planned. It will look like the Viking stadion. If it goes any other direction will be towards the Vikings stadium and a huge class roof.

They are American. Bigger is better and could you imagine they toned down their plans and their friends found out?

Of dear that just won't do.

Remember folks. The Kilmac Stadium will not be just for Dundee FC. It's for concerts, other sports and the like. Less seats means less potential revenue. 

It's happening. Although I will miss catching an 18 and walking the full length of sandeman street past the tangerine rabels big white box this move will help Dundee reach the next level, attract more fans and revenue that just now we could only dream of.

Fair do's man, I'm just going by what I heard after the public consultation.

I'd agree that having a complete bowl would probably be better but I was pretty sure the club had said they were going with a more standard 4 stand layout.

I can't find anything online tho so I could easily be wrong and it was maybe just something I heard in the pub!

 

In terms of a safe standing area, I was thinking would it not be possible to have the lower 'flatter' rows of one stand be turned into a terrace? No idea how practical it'd be, but having a whole side of the pitch for standing would give us plenty of space for a Derry Rhumba (or Conga)

[Ludo*1]

1 minute ago, PauloPerth said:

I still think that would be Dundee's best bet, for many of the reasons the Shrewsbury fan states. Replace the Derry with a two tier stand the length of the pitch; safe standing bottom tier and seats above.  Supporters bar, hospitality etc.

A few seasons later the old Main Stand gets replaced. The ends are already fine, and likely not much different from what would be at the new ground. 

100%, but unless a superfan that does win the EuroMillions does this, then absolutely no-one will as it's not financially viable from a business point of view. Sure, it'll cost more to build a new stadium, but the increased revenue streams will mean it's much more profitable than renovating Dens over time.

[locheedee]

Just now, Ludo*1 said:

100%, but unless a superfan that does win the EuroMillions does this, then absolutely no-one will as it's not financially viable from a business point of view. Sure, it'll cost more to build a new stadium, but the increased revenue streams will mean it's much more profitable than renovating Dens over time.

I'm not so sure it would cost more to build a new stadium Ludo, it's usually pretty expensive to redevelop an existing site since there's a lot of existing infrastructure and old architecture to work around + I'm sure it's been mentioned before that the ground under Dens is an issue too...

[PauloPerth]

5 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

100%, but unless a superfan that does win the EuroMillions does this, then absolutely no-one will as it's not financially viable from a business point of view. Sure, it'll cost more to build a new stadium, but the increased revenue streams will mean it's much more profitable than renovating Dens over time.

But if Dens was renovated to include hospitality, restaurant and bars, then couldn't a lot of this additional revenue be achieved anyway. 

McDiarmid has hosted a couple of relatively big gigs: Elton John and Lionel Ritchie, so Dens with a new stand could surely do the same.

Obviously there's not the money to re-develop, but if the owners are prepared to put money into a new ground, it's just a pity they couldn't have been persuaded to invest in the current ground (after re-purchase).

[Ludo*1]

1 minute ago, locheedee said:

I'm not so sure it would cost more to build a new stadium Ludo, it's usually pretty expensive to redevelop an existing site since there's a lot of existing infrastructure and old architecture to work around + I'm sure it's been mentioned before that the ground under Dens is an issue too...

I could be wrong - I'd just figured it'd cost quite a bit less than £20million to renovate Dens. The Cox & Shankly cost a few million and they are still in excellent condition. The Derry and The Main Stand needs heavy work. Renovate the Main Stand (Since it's a listed building) and completely demolish the Derry and use the other land behind it, surely wouldn't be as expensive?

[locheedee]

6 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

I could be wrong - I'd just figured it'd cost quite a bit less than £20million to renovate Dens. The Cox & Shankly cost a few million and they are still in excellent condition. The Derry and The Main Stand needs heavy work. Renovate the Main Stand (Since it's a listed building) and completely demolish the Derry and use the other land behind it, surely wouldn't be as expensive?

I'd have hoped it wouldn't cost as much either (I've always wanted to see us redevelop Dens) but I think between the difficulties of working with a listed building in the main stand and the heavy engineering works that would come with building a proper modern stand and facilities on the Derry it might not be far off...

[Eh Peh Skeh]

You can't have people standing up enjoying themselves. pc plod will put an end to it.

I know plenty of Plods, Paramedics and Firefighters that attend the derry regularly and are all in agreement that we should be standing in a section such as a future “derry end” for a better atmosphere

[Dee Bliss]

Isn’t it the case that a brand new build gets access to various funds and grants from the government/sport Scotland, whereas a redevelopment gets pretty much heehaw?

 I think stadiums like Dens have had their day unfortunately. It’s all about sports villages and retail parks now for external income. If we could become self sufficient at Dens, brilliant stay there. If not we have to move on. 

Edited September 9, 2018 by Yenitit

[Dee Bliss]

3 hours ago, Meadow_Jock said:

So would I, mate. I've a lot of affection for Dens. It was the first Scottish ground I ever visited, back in the days when the  wooden benches ran all the way from the Derry End round the west of the stadium, and the Bob Shankley was an open terrace. However, it's a risk. Moving ground presents a real opportunity to generate new revenue, but it also represents a big threat to your club's identify. There are people who would have you believe that it's not worth spending money on the stadium when it could be spent on the squad. They're talking shite. Good players come and go, but a good ground is part of your matchday experience forever.  Out team quickly improved with the extra money generated by our move, but the matchday experience still became much less enjoyable.

At Shrewsbury ten years ago things were bleak. We had a shiny new doctor's waiting room next to a Sainsbury's for a stadium, our traditional badge had been replaced with a "modern" clipart version, and our traditional colours had been altered. The fans had to fight to fix all of this, but it would have been so much easier if these mistakes hadn't been made in the first place. 

One thing we still don't have and are still pissed off about is the lack of a supporters' bar. Essential in an out of town ground, and the only redeeming feature of Doncaster's new lego stadium. You need to all be pressuring the club to include stuff like this and safe standing now, whilst things are still in the planning stage, cos once things have been done it's hard to change them back.

One problem you might have is that at Dens, like the old Gay Meadow, your singer like to congregate on the side. When we moved stadiums they all wanted to stay there, in a corner by the away fans (a bit like at Motherwell) and it's way harder to generate a noise that resonates round our ground from there. Again, thinking carefully at the planning stage about where the singing section is going to be and how to go about filling it is definitely worth doing.

Good luck with it all!

It’s been good reading your thoughts and views on our potential new stadium. I’d hope the club would be asking around those down south etc who have new grounds what they recommend for new build stadiums to improve the matchday atmosphere. They’ve definitely spoken to clubs up here like Hearts and St Johnstone on how to improve things financially and on match days.

Your issue about the pubs has already been addressed. In the plans from the start were hospitality lounges to be turned into pubs on matchday at both the home and away ends. 

Edited September 9, 2018 by Yenitit

[kristov]

I could be wrong - I'd just figured it'd cost quite a bit less than £20million to renovate Dens. The Cox & Shankly cost a few million and they are still in excellent condition. The Derry and The Main Stand needs heavy work. Renovate the Main Stand (Since it's a listed building) and completely demolish the Derry and use the other land behind it, surely wouldn't be as expensive?

It's not listed, but it absolutely should be.

[hk blues]

10 hours ago, PauloPerth said:

But if Dens was renovated to include hospitality, restaurant and bars, then couldn't a lot of this additional revenue be achieved anyway. 

McDiarmid has hosted a couple of relatively big gigs: Elton John and Lionel Ritchie, so Dens with a new stand could surely do the same.

Obviously there's not the money to re-develop, but if the owners are prepared to put money into a new ground, it's just a pity they couldn't have been persuaded to invest in the current ground (after re-purchase).

I suppose they are like the rest of us, most of us would prefer to buy a new house rather than an old one with all the problems that brings  unless we have some affinity to the place - the Bod obviously have no connection to Dens Park.