General Election 2015

[FuzzyAffro]

It doesn't matter though, the Tories aren't reliant on SNP support for anything whatsoever. They can and already have told the SNP to f**k off over that. It won't be happening, the Tories have said no veto for each country Labour won't hold a referendum so it doesn't matter either way.

It doesn't require a happy medium, either the Tories win and we just have to like it or lump it there will be a referendum and we get no veto and nothing we can do about it. Or Labour win and there will be no referendum.

Obviously from an independence point of view the dream scenario is Tories win, hold the referendum, UK votes to leave Scotland votes to stay. Then you could literally start counting the days till Scotland is independent but that won't happen. The UK would vote to stay almost guaranteed.

[John Lambies Doos]

You're neglecting there's also a rather large EU referendum question between SNP & the Tories too. SNP (wisely) are desperate for us to stay in the EU and would want a caveat on the referendum that all 4 countries would need to vote to leave. The tories can't afford to do that, as they'd upset a large chunk of their core support who they're already battling with UKIP for. There's no real happy medium to that argument between the two.

The seethe if England voted to leave and Scotland vetoed it. What then for Cameron? Loses his own referendum, Scotland plays the trump card and middle England in chaos. Step forward one man

[LongTimeLurker]

The Tories wouldn't give Devo-Max either, google the comments of Cameron, Davidson and Johnson prior to the referendum. They are enraged we even have a parliament, which they opposed btw, and their very identity is unionism...

Their calculation a few years back was that the referendum would crush the SNP for a generation with something like a 70:30 No victory. That didn't happen and a still greater level of devolution had to be conceded because the outcome was uncomfortably close for comfort prompting Westminster to go into panic mode in the last two weeks of the campaign. The Tories couldn't afford to give UKIP another hot button issue in the shires of middle England so Cameron ditched traditional Unionism and started to promote EVEL in the immediate aftermath. Check out the Spectator article linked above to what that has already led to:

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/03/the-tory-partys-attitude-towards-scotlandisasstupidasitiscynical/

I don't think anything radical will happen in the next parliament on this between the SNP and the Tories, but the seeds for a future velvet divorce scenario between the Westminster and Holyrood elites in another decade or so have been sown.

[FuzzyAffro]

I don't agree with that at all. That's why they are talking about the new settlement being 'built to last' and the matter being 'settled for a generation' ie till the oil runs out. I think its just naive to think that the Tories view of anything has changed at all, I read that article last night.

All they have done is made some very small concessions in order to retain what they have got which is full control over the whole of the UK. Its what they believe in. They have also used it, or are using it, to try and f**k Labour with EVEL.

That's all that's about btw, they don't give a shit about the West Lothian question as it doesn't really matter, barely exists in reality and doesn't affect any vote at all. They have just used it as a vehicle to attempt to f**k Labour forever, as if they get that passed then Labour could practically never pass any legislation at WM again. Meaning the Tories own government in England forevermore and can lead it down a right-wing path with virtually no opposition.

In a UK context, nothing is ever about Scotland, don't forget that. We are just a tiny wee part of the UK of little relevance to anyone but ourselves. They only care if it affects them.

If you support independence there are two things you should be a fan of, EVEL and a vote to leave the EU. Both would be big boosts to independence, but only indirectly and eventually.

The Tories believe they can have EVEL and keep Scotland, or at the very least drag it out long enough to rape the North sea dry. But they see, publicly anyway, EVEL as just giving England what Scotland already has, so not necessarily a break-up of the UK merely redressing an imbalance that currently exists.

[I'm Brian]

Why will Cameron care? He'll be swanning off into the sunset to some post premiership lucrative career should he by some miracle end up as Prime Minister after 8th May.

Effectively he can be as controversial as he wants and face no consequences for a few years

[Colkitto]

One thing for sure is there is a clever game of political chess being played right now. Both the Tories in England and the SNP in Scotland seem to be making all the right moves and are a few steps ahead of Labour.

Labour just doesn't seem to have an answer to the Tory taunting over a possible pact with the SNP. The stuff they're doing with Salmond/Milliband is bad for Labour and good for both the SNP and the Tories.

In Scotland, they don't have an answer to the SNP either. Largest party forms government? Vote SNP get Tory? It's a load of guff and the voters know it, but Labour seem incapable of changing the tune or simply don't know what to do next.

The death of the Labour party in Scotland is very close, especially if they do get wiped out in May. So what do they do next? It would have to be something on the constitution as that's what's driving the agenda just now. But every little concession plays right into the SNP's hands. But if they want to survive in any meaningful way they may have to do something drastic over the constitution

[renton]

I don't agree with that at all. That's why they are talking about the new settlement being 'built to last' and the matter being 'settled for a generation' ie till the oil runs out. I think its just naive to think that the Tories view of anything has changed at all, I read that article last night.

All they have done is made some very small concessions in order to retain what they have got which is full control over the whole of the UK. Its what they believe in. They have also used it, or are using it, to try and f**k Labour with EVEL.

That's all that's about btw, they don't give a shit about the West Lothian question as it doesn't really matter, barely exists in reality and doesn't affect any vote at all. They have just used it as a vehicle to attempt to f**k Labour forever, as if they get that passed then Labour could practically never pass any legislation at WM again. Meaning the Tories own government in England forevermore and can lead it down a right-wing path with virtually no opposition.

In a UK context, nothing is ever about Scotland, don't forget that. We are just a tiny wee part of the UK of little relevance to anyone but ourselves. They only care if it affects them.

If you support independence there are two things you should be a fan of, EVEL and a vote to leave the EU. Both would be big boosts to independence, but only indirectly and eventually.

The Tories believe they can have EVEL and keep Scotland, or at the very least drag it out long enough to rape the North sea dry. But they see, publicly anyway, EVEL as just giving England what Scotland already has, so not necessarily a break-up of the UK merely redressing an imbalance that currently exists.

One thing to bare in mind is how unworkable the Smith commission is in reality. I doubt much of it will find its way to the statute books - particularly the big ticket income tax item.

So that is going to cause huge ructions and either a more useful and far reaching devolution act will be found, which will only accelerate the path to indy via slowly picking off each institution in turn, or the whole thing will collapse leaving Scots very aware of what a promise from WE is worth, further entrenching indy as a viable outcome.

[oddly optomistic]

Apparantly they're going to be talking about SNP etc tomorrow on The Wright Stuff tomorrow. Christine Hamilton on today saying how Scotland being propped up. She was cut down when he told her Scotland had propped them up for years. He's the fairest I've seen on tv re the subject.

[Dunning1874]

There is evidence for it.

Churchill-Attlee-Coalition-Getty-Hulton.jpg

Yes, the fact there was a coalition during WWII is clearly a precedent for a coalition in 2015. Entirely similar situations, obviously.

Purely looking at their respective policies it's easy to see grounds for compromise - it wouldn't take many - and a Grand Coalition being formed, but that ignores the political cost to both of them in the aftermath. While you'd have floating voters happy with it, the core support of both parties would vanish. It'd be suicidal. I hope they're both stupid enough to do it, but I doubt either of them are.

[LongTimeLurker]

...All they have done is made some very small concessions in order to retain what they have got which is full control over the whole of the UK. Its what they believe in. They have also used it, or are using it, to try and f**k Labour with EVEL....

That process of messing about with Labour completely undermines the ideology that underpins Unionism, which is that the four home nations should be governed together as if they were one unitary country and the differences between them should be downplayed. The reason for moving in this direction is the reality that the Tories very much don't have full control over the UK at the moment when the SNP can use Holyrood's control over local government planning issues to exercise control over stuff like energy policy, which was originally supposed to be reserved to Westminster. Once you go down the path of EVEL and turn Westminster into an English/rUK parliament most of the time it will become a lot more obvious to people how little Westminster actually does in a Scottish context and how some of the powers that are retained are often exercised in a manner than runs against the interests of the Scottish electorate. Keeping Scotland in the UK will be a lot less necessary in economic terms from a little Englander standpoint once fracking starts in the Blackpool area.

[~~~]

I didn't think Labour could get anymore desperate. Happy to be wrong

http://m.stv.tv/news/west-central/315185-scots-mp-accuses-snp-of-infiltrating-schools-to-brainwash-pupils/

[Kyle]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3012178/STEPHEN-GLOVER-Salmond-wants-English-hate-ll-ones-kill-Union.html

I wonder if he'd like some salt with those tears?

[SweeperDee]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3012178/STEPHEN-GLOVER-Salmond-wants-English-hate-ll-ones-kill-Union.html

I wonder if he'd like some salt with those tears?

The last sentence in that article is wonderful.

[Kyle]

The last sentence in that article is wonderful.

If you think that's wonderful, read the utter seething bile in the comments section.

[P45]

The comments section is the best bit in that Daily Mail article.

They have a rabid hatred of Scottish independence.

[SweeperDee]

If you think that's wonderful, read the utter seething bile in the comments section.

Wouldn't load properly for me, however I could see a few comments; they fucking hate us, which is pretty pleasing.

[Sooky]

Tories proposing a secret ballot to oust Bercow as Speaker

The government lose the vote 228-202. Think quite a lot of Tory backbenchers voted against the government. We've had applause and standing ovations, an unusually busy last day of parliament!

[SweeperDee]

The government lose the vote 228-202. Think quite a lot of Tory backbenchers voted against the government. We've had applause and standing ovations, an unusually busy last day of parliament!

Why did they want rid of Bercow anyway?

[Guest]

And now Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon seem to hold all the cards. They are only human, of course, and may still make mistakes. But I can’t see a way of stopping the SNP — unless the Tories and Labour were to go into a Grand Coalition together, which I somehow don’t think is going to happen.

With a sad and heavy heart, I’ll support the Union until it dies. Alas, I no longer believe that its death can be avoided.

[jmothecat]

The government lose the vote 228-202. Think quite a lot of Tory backbenchers voted against the government. We've had applause and standing ovations, an unusually busy last day of parliament!