Question Time

[Loondave1]

Several polls bore out the reasoning that the main driver in the election was soft UKIP voters moving to Tory, not Labour voters moving to Tory in fear of the SNP.

Fair enough but this would suggest to me the SNP still have a side effect of bolstering Tory votes by chasing soft voters back into the fold.I would accept though that the Labour Party in England needs to create something that draws people on board.I like Corbyn but conversely i don't know if he can do this unless he taps into a large previously unengaged part of the electorate.

[Mr Rational]

For the first and probably only time, I can agree with you on that. He needs to tap into the missing millions, give them something to vote for again and he's in with a shout.

He won't however and I reckon labour will be in the wilderness for the foreseeable.

Interesting wee article in the Guardian today, it seems that trust over the economy more than anything else is the reason why ex labour aren't returning to the fold. So why chase folk that won't vote for you?

[Benjamin_Nevis]

Fair enough but this would suggest to me the SNP still have a side effect of bolstering Tory votes by chasing soft voters back into the fold.I would accept though that the Labour Party in England needs to create something that draws people on board.I like Corbyn but conversely i don't know if he can do this unless he taps into a large previously unengaged part of the electorate.

I can't envisage a long term Labour voter ever jumping ship to the Tories. Perhaps a few waverers who were happy to vote for Blair's New Labour from 1997 (worth remembering what an utter shambles the Tories were back then).

.

Last May was almost certainly down to Cameron attracting votes from Ukippers and a few LolDems. Any waverers in May last year would have seen Milliband's atrocious Tv debates and fallen in with the Tories.

Labour are an utter mess both in England and Scotland. SLAB are virtually terminal. They need an enormous change of both luck and direction in England.

We're going to have Tories in power for over a decade IMO, irrespective of the SNPs presence.

[Loondave1]

I can't envisage a long term Labour voter ever jumping ship to the Tories. Perhaps a few waverers who were happy to vote for Blair's New Labour from 1997 (worth remembering what an utter shambles the Tories were back then).

.

Last May was almost certainly down to Cameron attracting votes from Ukippers and a few LolDems. Any waverers in May last year would have seen Milliband's atrocious Tv debates and fallen in with the Tories.

Labour are an utter mess both in England and Scotland. SLAB are virtually terminal. They need an enormous change of both luck and direction in England.

We're going to have Tories in power for over a decade IMO, irrespective of the SNPs presence.

I will take your decade and double it

[Fide]

I will take your decade and double it

 

Hence why we NEED independence.

[Loondave1]

Hence why we NEED independence.

It won't happen in my opinion hence twenty years minimum.Im not saying that from any partizan position either it's my gut feeling regardless of my thoughts or votes.

[Peppino Impastato]

It won't happen in my opinion hence twenty years minimum.Im not saying that from any partizan position either it's my gut feeling regardless of my thoughts or votes.

 

Yet you still oppose it, imagine thinking you were facing another 20 years of Tory rule and still opposing independence, wow.

 

Though tbf it was Labour who said 'better 100 years of Tory rule than one day of independence' so you're really just following the party line.

[Loondave1]

Curious as to where that quote came from ?? Scource ??

[Peppino Impastato]

Curious as to where that quote came from ?? Scource ??

 

Ian Smart.  Was he censured by Labour for this remark?  I'll let you guess the answer

[bob the tank]

It won't happen in my opinion hence twenty years minimum.Im not saying that from any partizan position either it's my gut feeling regardless of my thoughts or votes.

With the new SNP agenda of listening to people's views and explaining their strategy for a progressive independent Scotland, and also pointing out the way Westminster isn't exactly working in our interests, are you prepared to give the proposals a fair hearing with an open mind Dave?

[Loondave1]

With the new SNP agenda of listening to people's views and explaining their strategy for a progressive independent Scotland, and also pointing out the way Westminster isn't exactly working in our interests, are you prepared to give the proposals a fair hearing with an open mind Dave?

Yes but im not optimistic that it will be anything other than a smoozing exercise this time directed more at No voters . It'll take more than "its that or Tories" to move me.If I think Scotland will be worse off medium to long term it will still be No.Also i will not agree with an Indy Ref rerun any time soon.

[Fide]

Yes but im not optimistic that it will be anything other than a smoozing exercise this time directed more at No voters . It'll take more than "its that or Tories" to move me.If I think Scotland will be worse off medium to long term it will still be No.Also i will not agree with an Indy Ref rerun any time soon.

 

You had me at "Yes", you big handsome b*****d.

[RedRob72]

With the new SNP agenda of listening to people's views and explaining their strategy for a progressive independent Scotland, and also pointing out the way Westminster isn't exactly working in our interests, are you prepared to give the proposals a fair hearing with an open mind Dave?

It's a big lesson to learn, that patient coercion and cooperation are much more powerful that conflict and confrontation in an emotional debate. If the SNP do manage to start listening instead of 'telling' they may have a better chance next time around. The gaps on their economic argument and financial justification for independence will still be just as transparent though.

Much as though I admire Nichola Sturgeon as a politician (despite disagreeing with her on many issues), her guesswork on this crucial explanation is detailed by the same 'back of a fag packet' calculations that the rest of us have been using.

[renton]

It's a big lesson to learn, that patient coercion and cooperation are much more powerful that conflict and confrontation in an emotional debate. If the SNP do manage to start listening instead of 'telling' they may have a better chance next time around. The gaps on their economic argument and financial justification for independence will still be just as transparent though.

Much as though I admire Nichola Sturgeon as a politician (despite disagreeing with her on many issues), her guesswork on this crucial explanation is detailed by the same 'back of a fag packet' calculations that the rest of us have been using.

 

Do you even know what that means?

[RedRob72]

Do you even know what that means?

Yeah, I was trying to soften the word by using patient perhaps gentle but still convincing, a poor choice perhaps.

[renton]

Yeah, I was trying to soften the word by using patient perhaps gentle but still convincing, a poor choice perhaps.

 

So... just a lot of little threats, often - instead of one big one, you mean?

[Fide]

It's a big lesson to learn, that patient coercion and cooperation are much more powerful that conflict and confrontation in an emotional debate. If the SNP do manage to start listening instead of 'telling' they may have a better chance next time around. The gaps on their economic argument and financial justification for independence will still be just as transparent though.

Much as though I admire Nichola Sturgeon as a politician (despite disagreeing with her on many issues), her guesswork on this crucial explanation is detailed by the same 'back of a fag packet' calculations that the rest of us have been using.

 

It's such a shame that you allow the right wing media to spoonfeed you so transparently.

 

Try using your own thoughts. It's incredibly liberating.

[MarkoRaj]

It's a big lesson to learn, that patient coercion and cooperation are much more powerful that conflict and confrontation in an emotional debate. If the SNP do manage to start listening instead of 'telling' they may have a better chance next time around. The gaps on their economic argument and financial justification for independence will still be just as transparent though.

Much as though I admire Nichola Sturgeon as a politician (despite disagreeing with her on many issues), her guesswork on this crucial explanation is detailed by the same 'back of a fag packet' calculations that the rest of us have been using.

What about George Osborne's back of a fag packet calculations? Did they convince you the union was a better option? You're fooling no one.

[Loondave1]

You had me at "Yes", you big handsome b*****d.

Aye it looks like the summer of love all over again Fide.

[williemillersmoustache]

Much as though I admire Nichola Sturgeon as a politician (despite disagreeing with her on many issues), her guesswork on this crucial explanation is detailed by the same 'back of a fag packet' calculations that the rest of us have been using.

 

The pro-union campaign is still just project fear. As soon as a positive case for the union is made, I'll listen.  Until then I'll continue to watch each and every story of doom that was promised if we voted yes happen fucking anyway and encourage the yet to be convinced like you towards the light.