jamamafegan Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 One bad poll and the Nationalists ramp up their abuse. And the desperate straw clutching of The National newspaper really made me laugh. Scottish Nationalists haven't and aren't able to make a single positive argument for Independence.Stopped reading there. Are you really that ignorant?On that note, while 99% of us on here are on board with the positive arguments - I’m still waiting for you to reply to my post from a week ago on the “positive case for the Union thread.” Very interested to see what you or Glenminter come up with (I called him out as well but he too must have overlooked it.) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malky3 Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 45 minutes ago, jamamafegan said: Stopped reading there. Are you really that ignorant? On that note, while 99% of us on here are on board with the positive arguments - I’m still waiting for you to reply to my post from a week ago on the “positive case for the Union thread.” Very interested to see what you or Glenminter come up with (I called him out as well but he too must have overlooked it.) Ignorant? Seriously! Go on then. Outline the positive case for Independence 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malky3 Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 8 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: Most folk here know my position in 2014 - certainly I think the Brexit vote began to shift my views - what sort of confirmed it was how little Scottish views have been respected since that vote - not just by the Tories but also by the Labour Party. In terms of economics, I think things have also moved on, certainly the currency issue seems more planned than it was during the referendum campaign. A lot of that goes down to the excellent leadership shown by Sturgeon - unlike Salmond, who seemed to revel in rubbing up people the wrong way, she has come across as someone who genuinely has shown leadership but a willingness to listen and compromise when she has had to. A hard Brexit - either with a deal or a No Deal will only hasten support for independence. I know it's only anecdotal but, when you know acquaintances and family who are normally very pro-Union say they would consider voting for independence - to escape the mess that is Westminster - then you know the game is up the poley. "the currency issue is more planned" - ok prove that? At the moment the SNP position is an indetermined period of Sterlingisation followed by the introduction of a new currency "as soon as practically possible". We know Sterlingisation would make it impossible for Scotland to control its own economic levers because it would have to follow Bank of England policy. And a new currency comes with huge risks and costs. None of that seems planned for at all. As I keep asking where is the money going to come from to bridge that £13Bn per annum gap? Westminster isn't covering itself in glory but an Independent Scotland would have to negotiate the terms of a divorce with the same people. I know the Scots you refer to won't have the stomach for another divorce unless Independence is absolutely certaity to mean we are all richer especially since any Independence Referendum isn't likely to happen until after the UK has recovered from whatever Brexit outcome we get. BTW its reckoned that around half the SNP membership don't want EU Membership. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergie's no1 fan Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 One bad poll and the Nationalists ramp up their abuse. And the desperate straw clutching of The National newspaper really made me laugh. Scottish Nationalists haven't and aren't able to make a single positive argument for Independence. They've got no answer to how Scotland will replace all the revenue we get from the Barnett Formula. They've got no credible answer to the currency question. They can't even tell us which one of the services that they've criticised for decades they would scrap in an Independent Scotland. Christ, most of the Nationalists don't even seem to have worked out that if Scotland ever voted yes for Independence we'd have to negotiate with Westminster and all 27 member states of the EU - all with their own self interests to look after - to try the Utopia they are being promised. Happy Fifth Anniversary. Here's to at least another 100 more. 100 months more, maybe [emoji8]. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malky3 Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 16 minutes ago, sergie's no1 fan said: 100 months more, maybe . 8 years - that would do for starters 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 1 hour ago, Malky3 said: BTW its reckoned that around half the SNP membership don't want EU Membership. By who? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malky3 Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 8 minutes ago, welshbairn said: By who? Sir John Curtice, Ian Montague, Jim Sillars and Alex Neill amongst many others. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 1 minute ago, Malky3 said: Sir John Curtice, Ian Montague, Jim Sillars and Alex Neill amongst many others. Quotes? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamamafegan Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 Ignorant? Seriously! Go on then. Outline the positive case for Independence I asked you first, chief. Will you be the first ever poster on P&B to present a positive case for the Union? I’m sure it shouldn’t be difficult for you to outline the reasons seeing as you are so sure independence is such a terrible idea. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry94 Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 4 hours ago, MixuFixit said: On what charge? I'm guessing someone could try to bring a civil case against him on the basis of giving unconstitutional advice to the queen. I don't think that'd stick or anything but it's enough for crowdfunding and to get in the news I'd imagine. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 By who?By some doctored poll or out of thin air - the same thing really.Don't feed the fucking troll. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 1 hour ago, harry94 said: I'm guessing someone could try to bring a civil case against him on the basis of giving unconstitutional advice to the queen. I don't think that'd stick or anything but it's enough for crowdfunding and to get in the news I'd imagine. I was hoping that lying to the Queen would still be covered by treason, hopefully with the death penalty, but apparently not. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 16 minutes ago, welshbairn said: I was hoping that lying to the Queen would still be covered by treason, hopefully with the death penalty, but apparently not. Perhaps not, but surely the result of Indyref1 should now be declared null and void. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAFC. Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 I would like to see polls conducted by pro-Indy groups [emoji23] If a pro-Union group still can’t fudge the figures and 40% of their surveyors back indy, then God help them. We all know it’s pathetic, but the Yoons are genuinely buying it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Sanchez Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 Jim Sillars 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londonwell Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, Malky3 said: Sir John Curtice, Ian Montague, Jim Sillars and Alex Neill amongst many others. It was a 3rd of SNP supporters not a half at the time of the last EU ref. Internal polling suggests that is lower now and also that the majority of them wouldn’t let their views on Europe change their vote on independence. So aye, stop talking shite. Edited September 19, 2019 by Londonwell 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DublinMagyar Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 Don't hold your breath mate It was a 3rd of SNP supporters not a half at the time of the last EU ref. Internal polling suggests that is lower now and also that the majority of them wouldn’t let their views on Europe change their vote on independence. So aye, stop talking shite. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btb Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 12 hours ago, harry94 said: I'm genuinely shocked that Cameron has admitted that. Hopefully it's like a game of Kerplunk and this is one straw less supporting the monarchy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Ted Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 Sir John Curtice, Ian Montague, Jim Sillars and Alex Neill amongst many others. Defender of the Union, I'm on the edge of my seat here, outline your positive case for the union? After all, at a glance. I see the Tories have borrowed more cash in their time in government than has been borrowed by all the governments combined since WW2. Are they still printing magic money? (Quantative easing). What is the current UK deficit? I think we can both agree that £13 billion pales in comparison to the above. I think you would be better concerning yourself with that. If it continues, the banking crisis of 2008, will be a blip compared to what's coming. This union is finished, and its the greed and self interest of Westminster, the Tories and the Tory voters that will nail it. I'm getting the popcorn out for this delight. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 10 hours ago, Malky3 said: Sir John Curtice, Ian Montague, Jim Sillars and Alex Neill amongst many others. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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