The Moonster Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 1 minute ago, Stormzy said: You keep assuming that I've a cemented opinion and haven't really tackled any of the points that I've said could convince me so what does it matter.. they're not barriers they're sincere points that I would need clarity over before voting for such things. But you aren't voting for those things just now (or whenever a referendum happened). The questions you have would be put the the parties fighting it out for power in an independent Scotland. I'm not simplifying it down, I'm stating fact. Serious question - do you believe that Scotland is incapable of managing all of the points you put forward in a satisfactory manner if it were independent? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SANTAN Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 4 minutes ago, Blootoon87 said: 8 minutes ago, Stormzy said: You asked with a lot of nasty assumptions. I didnt vote for Brexit either way.. I'll ask politely then. Can you please explain why you were "for " Brexit without any plan of any sort? Well all of the concerns I have with Scottish Independence weren't an issue with Brexit. If you can go back and tell me what ones relate I'll gladly answer but as it stood I didnt have any questions over currency or defence or media etc, all of those already existed without the EU, all if this would need to be built up in SI. The bus that you mentioned was nonsense to begin with and I'm not anti immigration, I wanted to leave the EU from 2010 onwards, so long before the referendum was in the public eye. That's one of the issues that grates me the most with SI is that people claim Brexit is such a big factor like this wasnt a potential outcome prior to 2014... people knew Brexit was an option when they chose to vote as a UK collective, the whole debate over whether staying in the UK would keep Scotland in Europe was literally over the point Scotland would have to rejoin the EU, which was true, not whether voting No in 2014 would have secured UK in Europe for all eternity. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 It's weird how folk who find any kind of economic uncertainty regarding an independent Scotland the clincher for a No vote, are so blasé about Brexit. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 1 minute ago, Stormzy said: Brexit is such a big factor like this wasnt a potential outcome prior to 2014... people knew Brexit was an option when they chose to vote as a UK collective, the whole debate over whether staying in the UK would keep Scotland in Europe was literally over the point Scotland would have to rejoin the EU, which was true, not whether voting No in 2014 would have secured UK in Europe for all eternity. You're just being disingenuous now tbh. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SANTAN Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 5 minutes ago, The Moonster said: But you aren't voting for those things just now (or whenever a referendum happened). The questions you have would be put the the parties fighting it out for power in an independent Scotland. I'm not simplifying it down, I'm stating fact. Serious question - do you believe that Scotland is incapable of managing all of the points you put forward in a satisfactory manner if it were independent? Yeah I'm not voting on the detail I'm voting with being content with the status quo or having to do all the things I said from scratch, so the ideological view about SI is not enough to convince me that it is worth abandoning the status quo, the practical work that would have to be done and debated over for decades doesn't seem to warrant the rest to me. What can I say, I'm just clearly not as dissatisfied as everyone else on here seems to be. I think it could manage all the points I've made but the risk reward is no where near worth it imo, I don't think it would be likely and I'm sure I'd be left unsatisfied over most of those points. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SANTAN Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 1 minute ago, The Moonster said: You're just being disingenuous now tbh. Voting Yes would have led to Scotland leaving the EU and having to rejoin. Voting No meant the UK remained until it later chose to leave. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 Just now, Stormzy said: Yeah I'm not voting on the detail I'm voting with being content with the status quo or having to do all the things I said from scratch, so the ideological view about SI is not enough to convince me that it is worth abandoning the status quo, the practical work that would have to be done and debated over for decades doesn't seem to warrant the rest to me. What can I say, I'm just clearly not as dissatisfied as everyone else on here seems to be. I think it could manage all the points I've made but the risk reward is no where near worth it imo, I don't think it would be likely and I'm sure I'd be left unsatisfied over most of those points. So when you said you hadn't cemented your view a few minutes ago you were talking complete shite? Just now, Stormzy said: Voting Yes would have led to Scotland leaving the EU and having to rejoin. Voting No meant the UK remained until it later chose to leave. Yes, that was exactly what Better Together said to the voters in 2014. I think I'll leave you here, pal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SANTAN Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 Just now, The Moonster said: So when you said you hadn't cemented your view a few minutes ago you were talking complete shite? Yes, that was exactly what Better Together said to the voters in 2014. I think I'll leave you here, pal. Sorry if your comprehension standards are poor. I have an opinion on the likelihood of SI, I have an opinion on what I want, is all of this cemented, no. All of this could change with good reasoning, nothing I've seen so far has convinced me but there are plenty of assurances and outcomes which could.. What was wrong with what was said then, that is completely true. Do you think Scotland would have automatically rejoined the EU on day 1? -4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamamafegan Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 Well all of the concerns I have with Scottish Independence weren't an issue with Brexit. If you can go back and tell me what ones relate I'll gladly answer but as it stood I didnt have any questions over currency or defence or media etc, all of those already existed without the EU, all if this would need to be built up in SI.You’re so intent on getting assurances on x, y and z for SI but you weren’t given any assurances whatsoever with Brexit, no plan to exit the EU and the implications that would have for the UK - yet you wanted that, and would have presumably voted for it if you had the opportunity. That’s an absolutely bizarre way of thinking but it’s you that seems to think everyone on here is a loony nat. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 19 minutes ago, Stormzy said: was just saying culturally I prefer music from the other parts of the UK. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SANTAN Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 1 minute ago, jamamafegan said: You’re so intent on getting assurances on x, y and z for SI but you weren’t given any assurances whatsoever with Brexit, no plan to exit the EU and the implications that would have for the UK - yet you wanted that, and would have presumably voted for it if you had the opportunity. That’s an absolutely bizarre way of thinking but it’s you that seems to think everyone on here is a loony nat. I've literally told you what x y and z are for SI and how they aren't comparable with concerns I had over Brexit. Unless you can tell me what concerns i have ignored over Brexit then I'll gladly cover it.... I had the choice to vote and i chose to vote Remain as I wasnt convinced on certain issues..... So everything you've said above is wrong, congratulations. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 1 minute ago, Stormzy said: All of this could change with good reasoning, Lol, I literally asked you if you felt Scotland was capable of doing all the things you said and you said this: 6 minutes ago, Stormzy said: I think it could manage all the points I've made but the risk reward is no where near worth it imo, I don't think it would be likely and I'm sure I'd be left unsatisfied over most of those points. So if you think we can manage currency, debt, media and all those other things you're worried about, but ultimately you think you'd be left unsatisfied with the results, can you tell me what reasoning you need to hear in order to be satisfied with the results? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SANTAN Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 Also I dont think everyone is a loony nat at all, the majority are, click the names next to my dots and you'll see the main culprits, there are a few posters on here that I agree with and aren't complete roasters. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SANTAN Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 Just now, The Moonster said: Lol, I literally asked you if you felt Scotland was capable of doing all the things you said and you said this: So if you think we can manage currency, debt, media and all those other things you're worried about, but ultimately you think you'd be left unsatisfied with the results, can you tell me what reasoning you need to hear in order to be satisfied with the results? Jesus Christ, I also think man could eventually fly to Jupiter and I don't think that's happening any time soon. Here's a clue, go back to the page where I posted my concerns, if those were alleviated then I'd be convinced, you just said all of those will come after so if that's the case then I'm not going to jump off the cliff and change the status quo. I believe all of those concerns could certainly be addressed before the vote. (If there even is one) -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 Just now, Stormzy said: Jesus Christ, I also think man could eventually fly to Jupiter and I don't think that's happening any time soon. Here's a clue, go back to the page where I posted my concerns, if those were alleviated then I'd be convinced, you just said all of those will come after so if that's the case then I'm not going to jump off the cliff and change the status quo. I believe all of those concerns could certainly be addressed before the vote. (If there even is one) I'm really tying to make this easy for you give straight answers but you're doing your best to avoid it. I'll ask this a different way one more time a slightly different way: In an independent Scotland we will use our own currency. Are you satisfied or dissatisfied with that? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SANTAN Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 Just now, The Moonster said: I'm really tying to make this easy for you give straight answers but you're doing your best to avoid it. I'll ask this a different way one more time a slightly different way: In an independent Scotland we will use our own currency. Are you satisfied or dissatisfied with that? No I'm not, I've given you a page full of my concerns and you've basically said "aye that'll come after".. I'm not saying I couldn't be convinced I'm saying that you're not exactly convincing me here. I'd be satisfied if that was definitely the case. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Stormzy said: I'm not going to jump off the cliff and change the status quo. 28 minutes ago, Stormzy said: I wanted to leave the EU from 2010 onwards, so long before the referendum was in the public eye. Edited October 16, 2020 by welshbairn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SANTAN Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 4 minutes ago, welshbairn said: You must have missed the part where I said I voted Remain... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 1 minute ago, Stormzy said: I'd be satisfied if that was definitely the case. See, this is why your stance is ridiculous. You know that the SNP or any other party can't guarantee you that, as we don't know who will be in power. So when you say "I can be convinced if people can GUARANTEE we'll use our own currency" is basically you saying you'll never be convinced. How can anyone give you guarantees on the national debt? How can anyone give you a guarantee on EU membership when that will be a matter for the electorate? Do you not see how unreasonable your position is? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CambieBud Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 Voting Yes would have led to Scotland leaving the EU and having to rejoin. Voting No meant the UK remained until it later chose to leave. You haven’t thought that through, have you Stormzy? So the argument from Cameron, Brown and Darling was, vote NO to Independence to guarantee EU membership. No mention of, unless England votes to leave. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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