When will indyref2 happen?

[pandarilla]

That's the reality. 

You're overstating this issue. Being British would still be a thing, and it's just the official stuff that changes.

And anyway the alternative would be to continue to deny the citizenship of the majority (in the event of the inevitable yes win).

[pandarilla]

If anyone has a clip of the wee speech from trainspotting 2 it would be apt right now. It's the bit about rangers fans being from a lost time, desperately trying to cling on to something that doesn't exist anymore. The world has moved on and they're trapped, and increasingly frustrated.

[The_Kincardine]

1 minute ago, pandarilla said:

You're overstating this issue. 

I am not.  Your substantive point was, "I feel like my citizenship has always been denied" and this is the nub of Natterism.

To assert your own citizenship means to deny that of others and this is why the model isn't Brexit but of partitioning a nation state to placate you and your fellow secessionists. 

[Baxter Parp]

28 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

Border guards at Gretna is about the most imbecilic idea I have ever heard of

Your lot should stop suggesting it then.

[pandarilla]

I am not.  Your substantive point was, "I feel like my citizenship has always been denied" and this is the nub of Natterism.
To assert your own citizenship means to deny that of others and this is why the model isn't Brexit but of partitioning a nation state to placate you and your fellow secessionists. 

You started the citizenship stuff, not me.

For me it's a red herring. People can still legitimately call themselves British (in the same way that I'll still see myself as European, even after brexit).

[The_Kincardine]

5 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

If anyone has a clip of the wee speech from trainspotting 2 it would be apt right now. It's the bit about rangers fans being from a lost time, desperately trying to cling on to something that doesn't exist anymore. The world has moved on and they're trapped, and increasingly frustrated.

Now you're just being cheap.

I feel the same anger towards the Nats as I do towards Brexit supporters.

You are both nasty, wall-building xenophobes.

[Antlion]

7 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

I feel the same anger towards the Nats as I do towards Brexit supporters.

You are both nasty, wall-building xenophobes.

Why do you kiss the arse of the latter, vote for them, and share their tweets then? It appears the true anger you stew in is towards foreigners, and ethnic and religious minorities (which your racist pals on Twitter get banned for expressing).

[pandarilla]

Now you're just being cheap.
I feel the same anger towards the Nats as I do towards Brexit supporters.
You are both nasty, wall-building xenophobes.

I wasn't having a cheap dig. The point in the clip is spot on.

So many rangers fans feel like they've lost the country they grew up in. It can't be a pleasant feeling, but i don't have much sympathy. The world has moved on, and the rest of Scotland certainly has.

This whole superiority nonsense is long gone, and yet it's undertones can still be felt. It's the same instincts in the little englander mentality as in the rangers fans who cling to the union. It's backward, and its on the way out.

[The_Kincardine]

1 minute ago, pandarilla said:

This whole superiority nonsense is long gone, and yet it's undertones can still be felt.

We are one nation state and you and others want us partitioned because you hate the English and hate the Tories.  That's the sum of things.

Why you need to reference Rangers fans or any 'superiority nonsense' is a complete mystery to me.

[Antlion]

6 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

We are one nation state and you and others want us partitioned because you hate the English and hate the Tories.  That's the sum of things.

Why you need to reference Rangers fans or any 'superiority nonsense' is a complete mystery to me.

We were part of one united continent until your racist pals decided they hated foreigners, especially Europeans, and couldn’t stomach working with, trading with, or living alongside them. Despite feigned outrage at your compatriots’ racism and xenophobia, your response was to vote for racist parties and begin assiduously sharing alt-right nutbaggery. I have, if possible, even less respect for someone who crawls up the arses of extremist racists in search of approbation than for the scumbags themselves.

[oldbitterandgrumpy]

43 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

You think you'll get evicted from your home counties flat by an angry English mob, and forced to walk to Gretna only to be turned back?

He's been adopted by England  and has settled in England.  He's possibly more English than if he was  actually  born and raised in Govan. Why would he be forced to walk to Gretna? He's established, firmly established,  in Buckinghamshire. 

[Antlion]

Just now, oldbitterandgrumpy said:

He's been adopted by England  and has settled in England.  He's possibly more English than if he was  actually  born and raised in Govan. Why would he be forced to walk to Gretna? He's established, firmly established,  in Buckinghamshire. 

Only in his own head. In reality, his bosses still see him as an uncouth Jock - and not in the cute, provincial way that used to win him indulgent smiles, but in the way they look at those filthy Polacks and Paddies. He blames that bitch Krankie.

[oldbitterandgrumpy]

2 minutes ago, Antlion said:

Only in his own head. In reality, his bosses still see him as an uncouth Jock - and not in the cute, provincial way that used to win him indulgent smiles, but in the way they look at those filthy Polacks and Paddies. He blames that bitch Krankie.

Cheers, that's what I was trying to put into words. 'Uncouth Jock'. Tolerated and patronised.

Did he say something about kilts? 

[NotThePars]

Boy am I a podcast by Nima Shirazi and Adam Johnson 

Edited October 16, 2020 by NotThePars

[Granny Danger]

4 minutes ago, Antlion said:

We were part of one united continent until your racist pals decided they hated foreigners, especially Europeans, and couldn’t stomach working with, trading with, or living alongside them. Despite feigned outrage at your compatriots’ racism and xenophobia, your response was to vote for racist parties and begin assiduously sharing alt-right nutbaggery. I have, if possible, even less respect for someone who crawls up the arses of extremist racists in search of approbation than for the scumbags themselves.

They have always hated foreigners.  They had to wait until the right set of circumstances presented itself.

That was a self serving and profiteering xenophobe (Farage) frightening a gutless PM (Cameron) into thinking his political party and personal reputation was at stake and panicked into calling a referendum that was hijacked and manipulated and led to the basest fears and prejudices being exposed and exploited.

 

[pandarilla]

We are one nation state and you and others want us partitioned because you hate the English and hate the Tories.  That's the sum of things.
Why you need to reference Rangers fans or any 'superiority nonsense' is a complete mystery to me.

I love England. I find myself liking the English cricket team, and places like bath and york are absolutely delightful. You can't fucking beat an afternoon tea with clotted cream and jam. I'd also follow billy bragg anywhere.

But I'm not English, and I've never felt British. It's a fake state, where almost everyone basically sees it as England with a couple of add-ons (because that's what it is).

I've got no issue with Scottish folk who identify as British. Fair play to them. But it's not me, and I'm more and more convinced that a majority of my countrymen don't see it that way.

Why should the people of Scotland be kept in a union against their will? The no campaign won in 2014 but it was heavily based on the pensioners vote, and fear tactics played a big part.

That vote came last forever, and when things change, another referendum must be held. That's where we're at now.

I do hate the tories but if the people of Scotland vote in a tory government then I'll accept it. It'll be my own country choosing it's own path. Currently that's never the case, and right wing governments are forced upon us.

[The_Kincardine]

7 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

Why should the people of Scotland be kept in a union against their will? The no campaign won in 2014 but it was heavily based on the pensioners vote, and fear tactics played a big part.
 

Yup.  Unionists won because of auld fuckers, Rangers fans and Orangemen.  Oh and lies from Tories and the MSM.  That's the mantra and sad to see you following it.

The true truth is that almost 500 years of partnership with England and 300 years of being the same nation state has meant that we're almost indistinguishable from each other and there is almost nothing distinct about Scotland.

So to redraw a line between the Tweed and the Solway is to set us back almost half a millenium - which is pretty tragic.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

If anyone has a clip of the wee speech from trainspotting 2 it would be apt right now. It's the bit about rangers fans being from a lost time, desperately trying to cling on to something that doesn't exist anymore. The world has moved on and they're trapped, and increasingly frustrated.

The Gincardine you mean?

[Benjamin_Nevis]

Some real undertones of anger in The_Alcoholic's posting these days. Absolutely delicious stuff. Keep it coming [emoji23]

[pandarilla]

Yup.  Unionists won because of auld fuckers, Rangers fans and Orangemen.  Oh and lies from Tories and the MSM.  That's the mantra and sad to see you following it.
The true truth is that almost 500 years of partnership with England and 300 years of being the same nation state has meant that we're almost indistinguishable from each other and there is almost nothing distinct about Scotland.
So to redraw a line between the Tweed and the Solway is to set us back almost half a millenium - which is pretty tragic.

That's the demographics. It's not some sort of narrative pushed by the snp. It's what happened.