When will indyref2 happen?

[SANTAN]

2 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

because you said this place isn't a place for a fair discussion, inviting the conclusion you'd quite like a fair discussion.

You're reading something that's not there. I've got plenty fair places for discussion I dont have any hope in this cesspit, I was responding to the guy that seemed confused over this. 

[SANTAN]

28 minutes ago, Blootoon87 said:

43 minutes ago, Stormzy said:

Yeah you definitely seem a lot less "batshit mental" than some on here. I would acknowledge that to be the case and I would accept if one were to happen on those grounds, I wouldn't see it as definitive that their needs to be one though, I agree their should be but I'd probably also support flat out denying one in that case which I'm aware will upset some on here. 

So despite you accepting it, you'd support flat out denying it? Not very democratic.

I think the democratic element of this discussion was covered in 2014 and it's unfair to say a generation has past so I wouldn't lose any sleep over respecting democratic decisions considering by defintion allowing a second wouldn't respect the terms of the first. 

[SANTAN]

2 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

fair enough.

See how evil you presumably view the Tories and such, imagine going into ToryHQForum and trying to have a serious discussion , would you bother? I'm sure you wouldn't bother doing to troll either but still each to their own. 

[Alan Stubbs]

I would actually agree that polls can’t be used to definitely confirm a majority position for something.

I’m not sure how long Unionists think they can convincingly speak in the present tense about being the majority though. Plenty changes in six years, especially on an issue with a huge age divide. You could argue against Yes having majority support and say we don’t know without another vote. Short of that happening, there is nothing to point to that says No is a majority view.

Not to mention polls are perfectly fine to use in an argument when it’s good news for the Union. If anyone can remember that being the case.

[SANTAN]

3 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

I don't think tories are evil, otherwise I'd be saying 40+% of the UK is evil. I think certain politicians absolutely are evil but FPTP enables the worst excesses of a particular outlook. Priti Patel for example was brought up by parents who were kicked out of Uganda and only the most charitable person could say this has no bearing on her disposition towards refugees. Dominic Cummings 'hard rain rooting out the enemy within' prose is the kind of thing someone who was obviously an unpopular nerd at school would say after getting a sniff at power later in life.

In Holyrood they get forced to compromise and this leads to outcomes that are broadly more palatable - the greens recently worked with conservatives to get certain amendments to the Animals and Wildlife bill passed, strengthening its powers to deal with stuff like tail docking, electric shock collar use etc. Famously the SNP were given support from the tories after 2007 on the basis of bolstering police recruitment.

I just want more of this kind of thing but permanently.

A good post and I respect your motives even if we have differing views on some issues. My post was more about if you could understand how I view this place and why I do so, if we were to have a conversation not on here we would agree on more than we would disagree I reckon, well until we got to Football at least! 

[D Angelo Barksdale]

Looks like it's been a productive day for the discourse in here.

Carry on lads.

[NotThePars]

it would be a lot worse for the rest of yous if me and Mixu weren't so bloody reasonable

[strichener]

On 29/09/2020 at 18:11, NotThePars said:

The 'once in a generation' comment made by Alex Salmond is a millstone around the independence movement and it's hard to see how they progress beyond that. If only he had lost his position as a Member of Parliament, resigned from the leadership of the SNP and been effectively ostracised by the party and wider movement, then we could maybe move past what he personally felt about the legitimacy of a second referendum in the years after the first.

And not put it into a white paper.

[lichtgilphead]

17 minutes ago, strichener said:

And not put it into a white paper.

White papers are a "tool of participatory democracy ... not [an] unalterable policy commitment"

Pemberton, John E. Government Green Papers. Library World 71:49 Aug. 1969.

[strichener]

8 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said:

White papers are a "tool of participatory democracy ... not [an] unalterable policy commitment"

Pemberton, John E. Government Green Papers. Library World 71:49 Aug. 1969.

So we take the word of the current FM who made an even more explicit claim "once in a lifetime" was the phrase she used many times in the run up to 2014.  

BBC piece

She was also guilty of using the "once in a generation" phrase including at Conference in 2013.

Edited October 1, 2020 by strichener

[Antlion]

12 minutes ago, strichener said:

So we take the word of the current FM who made an even more explicit claim "once in a lifetime" was the phrase she used many times in the run up to 2014.  

BBC piece

She was also guilty of using the "once in a generation" phrase including at Conference in 2013.

And the chance to remain part of an EU member state was “once in a lifetime” as it turned out.

[lichtgilphead]

6 minutes ago, strichener said:

So we take the word of the current FM who made an even more explicit claim "once in a lifetime" was her phrase used many time in the run up to 2014.  

BBC piece

She was also guilty of using the "once in a generation" phrase including at Conference in 2013.

So, abandoning your eaflier claim that policy is set by white papers, you're now quoting an unscripted response to a leqding question in 2013 as setting SNP policy in 2020?

For the record, the leading question involved was at 4:43 in a 5:19 minute long interview and asked "Just very very briefly, if you lose the referendum, will that settle it for a generation?"

Context, dear boy, context.

[SANTAN]

The bottom line is that whether rightly or wrongly once in a generation is still a contentious issue as proven by such debates. Can the previous members that laughed it off concede on this point? 

[NotThePars]

Wait til 'Stormzy' learns about things like manufacturing consent

[Gordon EF]

The "once in a generation" crew are the gammony equivalent of remainers who think "but why doesn't Boris crawl into a ditch and die?" is an absolute gotcha.

Edited October 1, 2020 by Gordon EF

[SANTAN]

29 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

The "once in a generation" crew are the gammony equivalent of remainers who think "but why doesn't Boris crawl into a ditch and die?" is an absolute gotcha.

The gammons are on both sides. Wise up. 

[SANTAN]

1 hour ago, NotThePars said:

Wait til 'Stormzy' learns about things like manufacturing consent

Don't be irked that I can understand the wider electorate without necessarily agreeing with them. 

[Gordon EF]

2 minutes ago, Stormzy said:

The gammons are on both sides. Wise up. 

Maybe. It's not a particularly even split though, is it?

[D Angelo Barksdale]

Worth remembering whenever this nonsense comes up.

On 30/08/2019 at 17:29, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

A generation is 5 years, as this was the length of time it took Sir Reginald Generation, after which it is named, to come up with the concept back in 1879.

 

[strichener]

1 hour ago, lichtgilphead said:

So, abandoning your eaflier claim that policy is set by white papers, you're now quoting an unscripted response to a leqding question in 2013 as setting SNP policy in 2020?

For the record, the leading question involved was at 4:43 in a 5:19 minute long interview and asked "Just very very briefly, if you lose the referendum, will that settle it for a generation?"

Context, dear boy, context.

Strawman.  I never claimed policy was set by White Paper, merely that it was not just a comment made by an ex FM.

A politician answers leading questions all the time, mostly they use the same message consistently when facing the same questions.  If I could be arsed, I am 10)% sure that I would be able to show other instances of the same response from her.

No comment on the completely scripted conference speech?