When will indyref2 happen?

[Kenneth840]

18 hours ago, git-intae-thum said:

This assumes the SNP will remain intact post independence. Given it is effectively a collective of political and economic views that is united by one major issue, I find it unlikely it will last any significant period after the resolution of that issue.

I would also suggest many SNP voters vote for them just now as they are the only realistic current means to achieve independence. Once that is achieved who knows where their vote would go.

Presumably though much of an SNP legacy vote would go to a social democrat party, therefore making progressive socially democratic government in Scotland in a distinct possibility. 

It is the tragedy of labour in Scotland that their leadership has placed a higher priority on pursuing a policy of tory-lite UK nationalism.

 

I read somewhere that the party that wins Independence goes on to rule for a number of years after.  

 

[Kenneth840]

22 hours ago, DublinMagyar said:

On 20/10/2022 at 23:49, Jedi said:

I'm not saying its 'okay' for either....what I wouldn't want to see is an Independent Scotland simply making the same fiscal choices as Westminster (under the Tories) does.
In 2014 there was so much energy in the Yes campaign because it contained a variety of voices as to what the country could look like.
I don't disagree that Independence isn't just about the SNP (and it shouldn't be),..or indeed that you can 'vote for whoever you like in an iScotland),.... but over the past few years it has moved much more in their direction, and I don't hear many competing narratives now from more working class orientated groups. 
For Yes to win, I still reckon that it needs to become much broader and engage with these movements again. So many people were energized not just by Independence, but by politics in 2014, which was brilliant. That was as a result of feeling like they could hear from different views of what Independence could mean, and taking part in community groups up and down the country.
If the SNP set out the kind of prospectus, which they have adopted under the current leadership (not the 2014 version), I fear that, if there is a Ref next year, that it could result in a narrow No win, and that I think quite honestly would be both a great shame and a massive opportunity missed to really start to shape Scotland as a nation which can make different, and better choices than Westminster. As long as the fiscal outlooks of either London or Edinburgh aren't that different, you are only swapping 'dependence' on one hand, to see the same sort of policies as before implemented.

And WTF are Scottish Labour offering to bring to the table in an independent Scotland?

Scottish Labour are offering nothing.  That is the problem.

In contrast the SNP are trying their best to prevent an Independent Scotland. 

[Kenneth840]

On reflection, on reading the SNP economic disaster for Scotland, It is making me lean towards voting no.

I do not want an Independent Scotland that is using the SNP plan for a future Scotland. 

How did it come to this, making a 100% pro Independence supporter question its views.  Is this deliberate? I think so. 

If they keep this, I will vote no. 

 

[Kenneth840]

I think it is so they can keep their jobs and pensions.  They have become comfortable. 

[BFTD]

Fucking shocked that Kenny's a no voter. Didn't see that coming.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

2 hours ago, Kenneth840 said:

On reflection, on reading the SNP economic disaster for Scotland, It is making me lean towards voting no.

I do not want an Independent Scotland that is using the SNP plan for a future Scotland. 

How did it come to this, making a 100% pro Independence supporter question its views.  Is this deliberate? I think so. 

If they keep this, I will vote no. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Kenneth840 said:

I think it is so they can keep their jobs and pensions.  They have become comfortable. 

 

2 hours ago, BFTD said:

Fucking shocked that Kenny's a no voter. Didn't see that coming.

Aye he's over-reached with this shite alias there. 

My money's on Kincy. 

[Guest Jedi]

If there was a Ref next year, I would vote Yes, same as 2014, not for the SNP's prospectus but in the hope that these more radical voices will come to the fore. 

Supreme Court says No, and it goes to Plan B, wouldn't vote SNP in a GE, as I don't think it works as a 'de-facto' Ref.

[Granny Danger]

3 hours ago, BFTD said:

Fucking shocked that Kenny's a no voter. Didn't see that coming.

He’s J K Rowling.

Or maybe Jakie Rowling.

[BFTD]

1 hour ago, Granny Danger said:

He’s J K Rowling.

Or maybe Jakie Rowling.

Nah, the ludicrously wealthy author of Harry Potter will have much better things to do than kvetch bitterly to strangers about independence and genitals.

...well, I don't think her internet access is limited to an hour on Friday and Saturday nights, at least.

[oldbitterandgrumpy]

15 hours ago, Kenneth840 said:

I read somewhere that the party that wins Independence goes on to rule for a number of years after.  

 

Well, if you read it on the internet it’s probably true. 

[Pocketman]

15 hours ago, Kenneth840 said:

On reflection, on reading the SNP economic disaster for Scotland, It is making me lean towards voting no.

I do not want an Independent Scotland that is using the SNP plan for a future Scotland. 

How did it come to this, making a 100% pro Independence supporter question its views.  Is this deliberate? I think so. 

If they keep this, I will vote no. 

 

A genuine and moving "Saul on the road to Damascus"moment played out in real time on P&B. Wonderful to have witnessed. 

[Clown Job]

Sorry wit? 
 

 

[Antlion]

On 22/10/2022 at 21:45, BFTD said:

Nah, the ludicrously wealthy author of Harry Potter will have much better things to do than kvetch bitterly to strangers about independence and genitals.

...well, I don't think her internet access is limited to an hour on Friday and Saturday nights, at least.

Is the bold Joanne still cheerleading anti-abortion, anti-gay, far-right weirdos, and blocking anyone that points out how this jars with her self proclaimed liberalism?

[The_Kincardine]

On 22/10/2022 at 19:35, Jedi said:

If there was a Ref next year, I would vote Yes, same as 2014, not for the SNP's prospectus but in the hope that these more radical voices will come to the fore. 

Supreme Court says No, and it goes to Plan B, wouldn't vote SNP in a GE, as I don't think it works as a 'de-facto' Ref.

Whit?  The Party of Independence produces a 'penny dreadful' os a pamphlet and you'll vote for them in the hope that something better comes along?

It is stupid fuckwits marginal voters like you that they depend on.

[Antlion]

8 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

Whit?  The Party of Independence produces a 'penny dreadful' os a pamphlet and you'll vote for them in the hope that something better comes along?

It is stupid fuckwits marginal voters like you that they depend on.

Says one of the Tories’ dutiful sons.

[The_Kincardine]

16 minutes ago, Antlion said:

Says one of the Tories’ dutiful sons.

You can program alt-F1 on your KB to say  "Whit aboot".  That would cover 99% of your brain-dead dreck.

[Antlion]

6 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

You can program alt-F1 on your KB to say  "Whit aboot".  That would cover 99% of your brain-dead dreck.

You might want to rein in the personal abuse; remember you’re cosplaying as a deliriously happy and successful adult, not an angry and abusive crank. 

[BFTD]

6 hours ago, Antlion said:

Is the bold Joanne still cheerleading anti-abortion, anti-gay, far-right weirdos, and blocking anyone that points out how this jars with her self proclaimed liberalism?

Nah. That would be mental behaviour from a clearly bitter, unhappy person, not a massively successful multi-millionaire with the world at their feet.

[Antlion]

4 minutes ago, BFTD said:

Nah. That would be mental behaviour from a clearly bitter, unhappy person, not a massively successful multi-millionaire with the world at their feet.

Be fair - she’s a lady who gives something back. For example, she’s been happy to support anti-trans activist and anti-abortion sympathiser Posie Parker’s t-shirt business. And don’t forget all that charity work she’s done with anti-gay-rights campaigner and walking ballsack Baroness Nicholson. Salt of the earth, oor Joanne.

[Kenneth840]

On 23/10/2022 at 07:35, KingRocketman II said:

A genuine and moving "Saul on the road to Damascus"moment played out in real time on P&B. Wonderful to have witnessed. 

If you want Independence for Scotland, I cannot understand how you see this as a wonderful thing to witness.  Its fucking crazy. 

I want an Independent Scotland, a Scotland that will have control of its own monetary and fiscal policy.  A Scotland that will rightly be able to be the Giant of the renewables sector, same way that the middle East have done for their oil. This could be Scotlands second chance at generating a fund like Norway has.  If we could only have a government that would recognise that and instead of putting a maximum limit, yes a fucking maximum limit to auction, one that sold out Scotland to the tune of billions. 

An SNP government that are happy to use Sterlingisation for however long it takes to pass the impossible tests it has set itself. That would have worked well recently. 

Let me add into this that SNP mps at westminster stood up and walked out on an MP that was fighting for Scotland in highlighting the injustice in the energy crisis.  

The SNP mps childishly stood up and walked out again, not for the first time, and ignored a Scottish Independence supporting party at Westminster.  On something that will have an effect on everyone of us, energy.  SNP are basically siding with the union. 

This is why I have decided to vote no.  I may change my mind later, but currently it is no.