git-intae-thum Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 Cairney's wee intervention the day was very interesting..... Why say that now? In the event of Scottish independence Westminster were obviously always going to seek a currency union in the short/medium term. Private polls telling them the games up? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crùbag Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 I think their erses are knitting socks down in Westminster. Indy support is at 46 - 50% and there's only one way it's gonna go after a new Yes campaign. Add to that the unfolding Brexitshambles. And today we have news that whisky exports are still soaring and helping out the bankrupt UK. And then there's water which England seems to be running out of... Then there's the oil which doesn't seem to be running out anymore. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 We couldn't sell the whisky without the UK. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 31 minutes ago, ayrmad said: We couldn't sell the whisky without the UK. Wat? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Fifer Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Can someone please dissect an argument for me, as I'm not well versed enough to argue it. My mate claims that the economy in Scotland would struggle as so much of it is employed within the public sector. Why is this the case? (Or, why is it not the case?) Evidence required please. ETA- the 2017 Q4 percentages were 16.6% for UK and 21.4% for Scotland 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 26 minutes ago, Big Fifer said: Can someone please dissect an argument for me, as I'm not well versed enough to argue it. My mate claims that the economy in Scotland would struggle as so much of it is employed within the public sector. Why is this the case? (Or, why is it not the case?) Evidence required please. The thinking is that parasitical, lazy civil servants couldn't possibly contribute to society would be my guess. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 40 minutes ago, Big Fifer said: Can someone please dissect an argument for me, as I'm not well versed enough to argue it. My mate claims that the economy in Scotland would struggle as so much of it is employed within the public sector. Why is this the case? (Or, why is it not the case?) Evidence required please. ETA- the 2017 Q4 percentages were 16.6% for UK and 21.4% for Scotland The argument goes that public sector employees don't add tax revenue, as more goes out in wages from the same public revenue pot as the tax comes into. The counter argument is that the size of the public sector is affordable so long as the necessary tax and regulatory schemes are in place around a prosperous private sector. Luckily, Scotland does quite well in terms of exportable goods - light engineering, electricity, oil, argiculture and whisky and is also well placed in terms of leading tech and financial services delivery such that we could afford to make decisions based on a larger public sector if need be, or indeed enact the types of social policies that over longer terms allow us to make different decisions altogether (for example, in terms of health service, pensions and benefits delivery) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 16 minutes ago, renton said: The argument goes that public sector employees don't add tax revenue, as more goes out in wages from the same public revenue pot as the tax comes into. The counter argument is that the size of the public sector is affordable so long as the necessary tax and regulatory schemes are in place around a prosperous private sector. Luckily, Scotland does quite well in terms of exportable goods - light engineering, electricity, oil, argiculture and whisky and is also well placed in terms of leading tech and financial services delivery such that we could afford to make decisions based on a larger public sector if need be, or indeed enact the types of social policies that over longer terms allow us to make different decisions altogether (for example, in terms of health service, pensions and benefits delivery) Also, there are things that are privatised elsewhere that are still in public hands here, like water and we haven't cut our Police service to the bone. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 2 hours ago, Baxter Parp said: Wat? Come on, surely you know I'm not being serious, YTID. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Fifer Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 The argument goes that public sector employees don't add tax revenue, as more goes out in wages from the same public revenue pot as the tax comes into. The counter argument is that the size of the public sector is affordable so long as the necessary tax and regulatory schemes are in place around a prosperous private sector. Luckily, Scotland does quite well in terms of exportable goods - light engineering, electricity, oil, argiculture and whisky and is also well placed in terms of leading tech and financial services delivery such that we could afford to make decisions based on a larger public sector if need be, or indeed enact the types of social policies that over longer terms allow us to make different decisions altogether (for example, in terms of health service, pensions and benefits delivery) I've nae idea how to bold on the app on my phone so:"or indeed enact the types of social policies that over longer terms allow us to make different decisions altogether (for example, in terms of health service, pensions and benefits delivery)"Could you further explain what you mean by this? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Big Fifer said: I've nae idea how to bold on the app on my phone so: "or indeed enact the types of social policies that over longer terms allow us to make different decisions altogether (for example, in terms of health service, pensions and benefits delivery)" Could you further explain what you mean by this? Well, things like abject poverty (think Glasgow effect) lead to poorer health and social outcomes, which in turn leads to increased spending on public services designed to mitigate those outcomes. The levers required to tackle that poverty in any kind of meaningful, lasting fashion are reserved to Westminster, so a benefit of Indy would be pursuing the kind of social policies that would allow us long term to reduce the demand on public services, and hence spending. Edited May 23, 2018 by renton 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Fifer Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Well, things like abject poverty (think Glasgow effect) lead to poorer health and social outcomes, which in turn leads to increased spending on public services designed to mitigate those outcomes. The levers required to tackle that poverty in any kind of meaningful, lasting fashion are reserved to Westminster, so a benefit of Indy would be pursuing the kind of social policies that would allow us long term to reduce the demand on public services, and hence spending. The argument then becomes that in order to finance this larger public sector through taxation , in some cases, I'd imagine it becomes higher, does that not drive businesses out of Scotland? I realize this is the Tory line of thought but I have to put myself in the position of my pal who is, em, mildly conservative. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Big Fifer said: 1 hour ago, renton said: Well, things like abject poverty (think Glasgow effect) lead to poorer health and social outcomes, which in turn leads to increased spending on public services designed to mitigate those outcomes. The levers required to tackle that poverty in any kind of meaningful, lasting fashion are reserved to Westminster, so a benefit of Indy would be pursuing the kind of social policies that would allow us long term to reduce the demand on public services, and hence spending. The argument then becomes that in order to finance this larger public sector through taxation , in some cases, I'd imagine it becomes higher, does that not drive businesses out of Scotland? I realize this is the Tory line of thought but I have to put myself in the position of my pal who is, em, mildly conservative. Depends on how and where you apply tax. Ultimately there are a number of other factors that influence a company's decision to set up shop. The quality of the workforce definitely plays a role, in terms of education and health. Other factors might include physical proximity to the company's chief markets, the available supply chain, and yes a favourable tax base. However, it isn't as simple as saying it could or indeed would cause an exodus. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Big Fifer said: 1 hour ago, renton said: Well, things like abject poverty (think Glasgow effect) lead to poorer health and social outcomes, which in turn leads to increased spending on public services designed to mitigate those outcomes. The levers required to tackle that poverty in any kind of meaningful, lasting fashion are reserved to Westminster, so a benefit of Indy would be pursuing the kind of social policies that would allow us long term to reduce the demand on public services, and hence spending. The argument then becomes that in order to finance this larger public sector through taxation , in some cases, I'd imagine it becomes higher, does that not drive businesses out of Scotland? I realize this is the Tory line of thought but I have to put myself in the position of my pal who is, em, mildly conservative. I don't think there is a direct correlation between the proportion of public and private sector jobs and the efficiency of the economy and tax rates etc. When GNER was last in the public sector it was said to be run better and for less public subsidy than it has been in private hands. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inanimate Carbon Rod Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Think youve also got to look at the kind of production/private sector employment we have in Scotland also, we produce high value commodities and our output in terms of research and financial/service sector reassures me we can sustain high public sector employment. Scotland would be a very wealthy independent country, I dont think that’s something we particularly need to worry about. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Well, things like abject poverty (think Glasgow effect) lead to poorer health and social outcomes, Isn’t the whole point of “The Glasgow Effect” that its excess mortality above and beyond what you’d expect based on poverty. Glaswegians dying earlier than similarly skint scousers or Dundonians 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 (edited) 11 hours ago, topcat(The most tip top) said: Isn’t the whole point of “The Glasgow Effect” that its excess mortality above and beyond what you’d expect based on poverty. Glaswegians dying earlier than similarly skint scousers or Dundonians Also, I would think that the Glagow effect is a net contributor to the public sector, given that they are unlikely to receive a state pension, require long periods in care or clog up the NHS. <SarcasmOn> Perhaps the Tory Party policies that drive us to destitution are more sound economically than we give them credit for. </SarcasmOn> Edited May 24, 2018 by strichener 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Fifer Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 What are we hoping/expecting to see in the growth commission tomorrow?For me, I'll be clicking CTRL-F and searching pensions (assuming this is included) as o think this needs to be bulletproof. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 What are we hoping/expecting to see in the growth commission tomorrow? For me, I'll be clicking CTRL-F and searching pensions (assuming this is included) as o think this needs to be bulletproof. It's a lot of shite according to Yoon twitter. Some of whom haven't read it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 Can someone please dissect an argument for me, as I'm not well versed enough to argue it. My mate claims that the economy in Scotland would struggle as so much of it is employed within the public sector. Why is this the case? (Or, why is it not the case?) Evidence required please. ETA- the 2017 Q4 percentages were 16.6% for UK and 21.4% for Scotland Nonsense, all to do with Salmond being fat with an old wife. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.