When will indyref2 happen?

[BawWatchin]

2 minutes ago, Malky3 said:

I could relish that too if it didn't look like we were pissing away our futures. The last time the SNP shared its vision they said we would have everything we've got just now and be better off. This was in the White Paper where they got their figures wrong. We know the fiscal gap would have been £29.9Bn. So all I want to know is what bits of what we've currently got would we have had to have given up? 

Surely its a simple question?

They didn't "get the figures wrong". Their figures were right at the time.

But how many times does it need to be said. Independence isn't about the "SNP vision". It's about the path the Scottish people choose to take after we're out of the UK.

[jimmy boo]

An independent Scotland will be an inclusive environment whereby, amongst other modern things, automatic assumptions about gender won't be a thing.

What's that got to do with anything?

[Malky3]

1 minute ago, BawWatchin said:

They didn't "get the figures wrong". Their figures were right at the time.

But how many times does it need to be said. Independence isn't about the "SNP vision". It's about the path the Scottish people choose to take after we're out of the UK.

The figures were wrong and had we followed the White Paper to the letter - including all its generous assumptions about the divorce settlement - we'd still have had a fiscal black hole of £29.9Bn that we wouldn't have been able to borrow our way out of. 

Maybe you can help me with your second assumption though. If Independence isn't going to be about the SNP vision which one of the Unionists - Rennie, Davidson or Leonards - vision will we be following? 

[Brother Blades]

The figures were wrong and had we followed the White Paper to the letter - including all its generous assumptions about the divorce settlement - we'd still have had a fiscal black hole of £29.9Bn that we wouldn't have been able to borrow our way out of. 
Maybe you can help me with your second assumption though. If Independence isn't going to be about the SNP vision which one of the Unionists - Rennie, Davidson or Leonards - vision will we be following? 

What’s the UKs fiscal “black hole” over the same period? I’m curious.

[BawWatchin]

48 minutes ago, Malky3 said:

The figures were wrong and had we followed the White Paper to the letter - including all its generous assumptions about the divorce settlement - we'd still have had a fiscal black hole of £29.9Bn that we wouldn't have been able to borrow our way out of. 

Maybe you can help me with your second assumption though. If Independence isn't going to be about the SNP vision which one of the Unionists - Rennie, Davidson or Leonards - vision will we be following? 

Fiscal black holes as you put it are meaningless in the scheme of things. Every country across the Western World has a fiscal "black hole". Generally speaking, you can't borrow your way out of any kind of debt, but try explaining that to the rest of the world.

There you go, assuming things will be exactly the same then as they are now. The Scottish Parliament will more than likely go through an overhaul. The positions of the likes of Rennie, Davidson and Leonard will become untenable. Fresh faces and fresh ideas will come through the ranks, as the parties compete together to put forward the best plan for an independent Scotland.

[Malky3]

1 hour ago, Brother Blades said:

What’s the UKs fiscal “black hole” over the same period? I’m curious.

£32.3Bn in 2018 apparently. Considering the GERS report says that Scotlands fiscal "gap" for the same year was £10.3Bn, it doesn't look that bad. 

Not that it's anywhere near as relevant because the UK Government has it's own currency, is able to borrow money, and isn't trying to keep parity with any other currency, unlike the SNP policy of Sterlingisation. 

[Malky3]

1 hour ago, BawWatchin said:

Fiscal black holes as you put it are meaningless in the scheme of things. Every country across the Western World has a fiscal "black hole". Generally speaking, you can't borrow your way out of any kind of debt, but try explaining that to the rest of the world.

There you go, assuming things will be exactly the same then as they are now. The Scottish Parliament will more than likely go through an overhaul. The positions of the likes of Rennie, Davidson and Leonard will become untenable. Fresh faces and fresh ideas will come through the ranks, as the parties compete together to put forward the best plan for an independent Scotland.

This is where you are clearly showing your ignorance. Please have a read of this and understand why the current SNP Policy of Sterlingisation would make it extremely difficult for an independent Scotland to run with any sort of deficit. 

https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2018/07/01/sterlingisation-is-how-to-destroy-hope-for-an-independent-scotland/

I'd suggest paying particular attention to this section

Quote

Nor will Scotland be in control of its own government budget, so it would not be able to stimulate the economy by running a deficit, for instance. That is because the Government would be forced to balance its books unless it borrowed in a foreign currency, which would make it hard, if not impossible, to maintain parity with the pound.

 

Edited August 16, 2019 by Malky3

[DeeTillEhDeh]

GERS is a set of regional accounts for Scotland as part of the UK and not a set of accounts for Scotland as a separate nation. 

 

GERS is an annual exercise in hiding Scotland’s true wealth.

 

 

 

 

[jakedee]

Scotland,with a population of 5.5 million, has a "fiscal gap" 30% that of the UK with a population of 65 million. Managed mostly by the same authority. Believable [emoji849].

£32.3Bn in 2018 apparently. Considering the GERS report says that Scotlands fiscal "gap" for the same year was £10.3Bn, it doesn't look that bad. 
Not that it's anywhere near as relevant because the UK Government has it's own currency, is able to borrow money, and isn't trying to keep parity with any other currency, unlike the SNP policy of Sterlingisation. 

[BawWatchin]

3 minutes ago, Malky3 said:

This is where you are clearly showing your ignorance. Please have a read of this and understand why the current SNP Policy of Sterlingisation would make it extremely difficult for an independent Scotland to run with any sort of deficit. 

https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2018/07/01/sterlingisation-is-how-to-destroy-hope-for-an-independent-scotland/

Ah yes, Richard Murphy from Cambridge. Another "expert economist" from London who "surprise surprise" agrees with all of the other "expert economists" from London who really don't want London to lose the Scottish purse.

[sophia]

2 hours ago, jimmy boo said:

8 hours ago, sophia said:

An independent Scotland will be an inclusive environment whereby, amongst other modern things, automatic assumptions about gender won't be a thing.

What's that got to do with anything?

It's speaking of a contemporaneous egalitarian society that is as holistic as it is mellifluous. 

Shirley you can grasp this concept?

[ICTJohnboy]

Dictionaries out.

Sophia's about.

[Malky3]

1 hour ago, BawWatchin said:

Ah yes, Richard Murphy from Cambridge. Another "expert economist" from London who "surprise surprise" agrees with all of the other "expert economists" from London who really don't want London to lose the Scottish purse.

Oh FFS, stop with the tin hat shite. 

[Malky3]

1 hour ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

GERS is a set of regional accounts for Scotland as part of the UK and not a set of accounts for Scotland as a separate nation. 

 

GERS is an annual exercise in hiding Scotland’s true wealth.

 

Ok, but the fiscal black hole that I have continually referred to isn't the GERS report - it's the difference between the figures provided by the SNP in their White Paper and the ACTUAL revenue as it was with the oil revenue slump that really happened. The fiscal gap was £29.9Bn to March 2019 and what I keep asking is which one of the things we get right now that the SNP promised would remain the same - would have been cut to ensure Sterlingisation (SNP currency policy) could work. 

It's a really simple question. Quite why Nationalists who claim they have "destroyed" these questions before can't answer them is beyond me. 

[BawWatchin]

3 minutes ago, Malky3 said:

Oh FFS, stop with the tin hat shite. 

Aye, that's what it is. I'm sure it's only sheer coincidence that you chose a botched article written by an Englishman from London.

[Malky3]

1 hour ago, sophia said:

It's speaking of a contemporaneous egalitarian society that is as holistic as it is mellifluous. 

Shirley you can grasp this concept?

It's wishful thinking though isn't it? 

Let's face it we all know that Independence won't end Sectarianism, bigotry, racism, xenophobia or misogyny. Christ the former SNP leader is up on two counts of rape and several charges of sexual assault in 2020, another prominent former SNP MSP is currently serving time for beating up his wife and his daughter and yet another SNP MSP was suspended for sexual harassment. 

 

[Malky3]

3 minutes ago, BawWatchin said:

Aye, that's what it is. I'm sure it's only sheer coincidence that you chose a botched article written by an Englishman from London.

Well I could have quoted an article on the SNP's own website - but you probably would think the author of that had some bizarre agenda too. 

http://www.snpstudents.com/page36.html

[Malky3]

How about the European Commissioner for economics? Would you accept that he knows what he's doing? 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29043878

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Ok, but the fiscal black hole that I have continually referred to isn't the GERS report - it's the difference between the figures provided by the SNP in their White Paper and the ACTUAL revenue as it was with the oil revenue slump that really happened. The fiscal gap was £29.9Bn to March 2019 and what I keep asking is which one of the things we get right now that the SNP promised would remain the same - would have been cut to ensure Sterlingisation (SNP currency policy) could work.  It's a really simple question. Quite why Nationalists who claim they have "destroyed" these questions before can't answer them is beyond me. 

 

Basing projections on a White Paper from 5 years ago is a very silly game. It's also extremely dishonest - on par with the Tory's "money tree" pish that they threw at Labour in the last General Election. 

 

 

As someone who did not vote Yes I was a critic of the economic projections. The reality was that the SNP were still at that point trying to be all things to all men - particularly those promises on poverty etc - things have moved on - a white paper for the next referendum will almost certainly be a lot more tighter in terms of fiscal controls.

 

There has already been moves in that area in the last year - especially the work of the Sustainable Growth Commission:

 

https://www.ft.com/content/757b5bc2-602e-11e8-9334-2218e7146b04.

 

I made the point in 2014 - and I stand by it now - there is absolutely no reason why an iScotland could not be successful - the barrier is not Scotland's economy but the actual policies that are implemented. I still need to be convinced on the issue if sterlingisation in the short run but for me the issue of independence is much more fundamental.

 

For me it's gone way beyond the economic argument and is now purely a political argument - in 2014 it was for political reasons that I did not vote Yes - an errant belief that independence was a divide and rule of the working classes. The EU referendum changed all that - for me it is fundamentally about the democratic deficit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[sophia]

6 minutes ago, Malky3 said:

It's wishful thinking though isn't it? 

Let's face it we all know that Independence won't end Sectarianism, bigotry, racism, xenophobia or misogyny. 

 

You think you are communicating exclusively with "lads" and you have replied to a post with obvious japery at its heart.

Moreover, you've fleshed out your reply with infantile point scoring that is as repititious as it is dull.

Please forgive me if I continue to scroll past your homilies with increasing alacrity.