When will indyref2 happen?

[DeeTillEhDeh]

You think you are communicating exclusively with "lads" and you have replied to a post with obvious japery at its heart.
Moreover, you've fleshed out your reply with infantile point scoring that is as repititious as it is dull.
Please forgive me if I continue to scroll past your homilies with increasing alacrity.
 
 

Telt of the day!!

[Malky3]

4 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

Basing projections on a White Paper from 5 years ago is a very silly game. It's also extremely dishonest - on par with the Tory's "money tree" pish that they threw at Labour in the last General Election.

 

As someone who did not vote Yes I was a critic of the economic projections. The reality was that the SNP were still at that point trying to be all things to all men - particularly those promises on poverty etc - things have moved on - a white paper for the next referendum will almost certainly be a lot more tighter in terms of fiscal controls.

 

There has already been moves in that area in the last year - especially the work of the Sustainable Growth Commission:

 

https://www.ft.com/content/757b5bc2-602e-11e8-9334-2218e7146b04.

 

I made the point in 2014 - and I stand by it now - there is absolutely no reason why an iScotland could not be successful - the barrier is not Scotland's economy but the actual policies that are implemented. I still need to be convinced on the issue if sterlingisation in the short run but for me the issue of independence is much more fundamental.

 

For me it's gone way beyond the economic argument and is now purely a political argument - in 2014 it was for political reasons that I did not vote Yes - an errant belief that independence was a divide and rule of the working classes. The EU referendum changed all that - for me it is fundamentally about the democratic deficit.

 

 

 

 

 

Scotland could be a successful nation in its own right. Of course it could. We could scrap the NHS and land up with a budget surplus, or we could scrap pensions, or we could make substantial savings in education or in foriegn aid. What we couldn't have is what the SNP promised which was everything we have plus lower taxes. 

BTW im not talking about projections or estimates. I'm talking about what would actually have happened had the 55% heroes not saw through the nationalist waffle. Trust me its every bit an economic argument. Just because the Nationalists are bored deflecting around it doesn't mean the rest of us have switched off. 

[Malky3]

4 minutes ago, sophia said:

You think you are communicating exclusively with "lads" and you have replied to a post with obvious japery at its heart.

Moreover, you've fleshed out your reply with infantile point scoring that is as repititious as it is dull.

Please forgive me if I continue to scroll past your homilies with increasing alacrity.

Bye then dafty. I'll not miss your contribution 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Scotland could be a successful nation in its own right. Of course it could. We could scrap the NHS and land up with a budget surplus, or we could scrap pensions, or we could make substantial savings in education or in foriegn aid. What we couldn't have is what the SNP promised which was everything we have plus lower taxes.  BTW im not talking about projections or estimates. I'm talking about what would actually have happened had the 55% heroes not saw through the nationalist waffle. Trust me its every bit an economic argument. Just because the Nationalists are bored deflecting around it doesn't mean the rest of us have switched off.   

 

What would have actually have happened?   

 

 

Now you are taking the piss.

 

No-one, not unless they have a fucking time machine knows exactly what would have happened.

 

The reality is that the economic policies of an iScotland are not in the gift of the current Scottish government but whoever is the elected iScotland government. That was my key economic criticism of the White Paper - promises and projections made that would not necessarily have been followed through. The shift in position by the Scottish government under Nicola Sturgeon's leadership has been quite clear and IMHO a lot more fiscally prudent than before.

 

You are also extremely dishonest about the economic choices - it's not about scrapping the NHS vs budget surplus or scrapping pensions etc - that's scaremongering pish of the worst degree. The choices will be if we want to have a government that does intervene and that we are willing to pay taxes for or a government that doesn't. That's a choice that every other country makes - why should an iScotland be any different?

 

What I believe is that we should be allowed to make those choices and not have policies implemented that ignore the Scottish dimension and are predominately in the interests of tiny proportion of the UK populace. It's about the decentralisation of power, about democratic control being closer to those people affected by those decisions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[D Angelo Barksdale]

2 hours ago, Malky3 said:

 the SNP policy of Sterlingisation. 

The SNP policy isn't Sterlingisation m9, it's for a Scottish currency to be established after independence is secured.

You would realise this if you didn't continually post articles from years ago. Or, more likely, you're just making stuff up again like your OBFA nonsense. Talking of which, you want to clear that up ? I mean, it's only the 5th time I've asked you.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

The SNP policy isn't Sterlingisation m9, it's for a Scottish currency to be established after independence is secured. You would realise this if you didn't continually post articles from years ago. Or, more likely, you're just making stuff up again like your OBFA nonsense. Talking of which, you want to clear that up ? I mean, it's only the 5th time I've asked you.   

 

He's being dishonest like a lot of Unionists about the issue of currency - yes there is likely to be a short period of sterlingisation but the SNP policy is that we replace the pound with a separate Scottish currency as soon as practicable.    

 

That is the right way to go - my doubts are over the length of time some more "conservative" politicians envisage sterlingisation to last.

 

 PS His contributions over the OBFA are the rewriting of history at its worst - claiming that the SNP are the pro-Catholic party is up there as one of the biggest pieces of shit I've read on this forum.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[D Angelo Barksdale]

2 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

He's being dishonest like a lot of Unionists about the issue of currency - yes there is likely to be a short period of sterlingisation but the SNP policy is that we replace the pound with a separate Scottish currency as soon as practicable. 

That is the right way to go - my doubts are over the length of time some more "conservative" politicians envisage sterlingisation to last.

Of course he's being dishonest.

On your last point, the membership are gradually moving towards establishing the new currency sooner than the leadership envisages, as the spring conference showed. I'd hope and expect Andrew Wilson, the growth commission and the '6 tests to come under further scrutiny from the membership.

[git-intae-thum]

3 hours ago, BawWatchin said:

Ah yes, Richard Murphy from Cambridge. Another "expert economist" from London who "surprise surprise" agrees with all of the other "expert economists" from London who really don't want London to lose the Scottish purse.

Please do no judge Professor Murphy's work on the basis of a single link provided by a poster who doesn't really understand the context. Richard Murphy strongly backs a Scottish currency, hence his dislike of the sterling share plan.

Murphy's dismantling of GERS is a very enlightening read. The figures likely vastly underestimate true Scottish revenue. One would think that they had been set up almost deliberately to do so

I wonder why British nationalist posters choose not to link to those articles.

Edited August 16, 2019 by git-intae-thum

[welshbairn]

Sterling is our own currency and should be used for as long as it is convenient for us to do so, no shorter or longer, hopefully shorter. Then we can let the rUK have it all to themselves.

[dirty dingus]

Sterling is pish, you ever tried to put a clydesdale £10 note in a self service till? We should adopt one o those crazy currencies Turkey or Zimbabwe use so on the stroke of midnight on Independence day the whole population become multi millionaires. 

[Malky3]

9 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

What would have actually have happened?   

 

 

Now you are taking the piss.

 

No-one, not unless they have a fucking time machine knows exactly what would have happened.

The reality is that the economic policies of an iScotland are not in the gift of the current Scottish government but whoever is the elected iScotland government. That was my key economic criticism of the White Paper - promises and projections made that would not necessarily have been followed through. The shift in position by the Scottish government under Nicola Sturgeon's leadership has been quite clear and IMHO a lot more fiscally prudent than before.

You are also extremely dishonest about the economic choices - it's not about scrapping the NHS vs budget surplus or scrapping pensions etc - that's scaremongering pish of the worst degree. The choices will be if we want to have a government that does intervene and that we are willing to pay taxes for or a government that doesn't. That's a choice that every other country makes - why should an iScotland be any different?

What I believe is that we should be allowed to make those choices and not have policies implemented that ignore the Scottish dimension and are predominately in the interests of tiny proportion of the UK populace. It's about the decentralisation of power, about democratic control being closer to those people affected by those decisions.

Very noble but utterly naive. Its another lie often peddled by nationalist that the day after Scotland votes for Independence that the SNP would immediately resign and a General Election would be called. Thats a fallacy. The SNP were quite open about it in 2014. They would stay in power for as long as the divorce talks went on. However they would, according to Nicola Sturgeon at the time have attempted to recruit Alastair Darling and Gordon Brown to help with the divorce negotiaions

[Malky3]

9 hours ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

The SNP policy isn't Sterlingisation m9, it's for a Scottish currency to be established after independence is secured.

You would realise this if you didn't continually post articles from years ago. Or, more likely, you're just making stuff up again like your OBFA nonsense. Talking of which, you want to clear that up ? I mean, it's only the 5th time I've asked you.

Liar!

Sterlingisation is the current SNP policy. Some party activists want it discussed at conference. If they do I look forward to hearing an honest and frank assessment of how much that option would cost Scotland and what the risks would be. I also half expect Fred Goodwin to be appointed head of the new central bank.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

Fucking hell. Is this creepy weirdo still going? 

[Malky3]

9 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

He's being dishonest like a lot of Unionists about the issue of currency - yes there is likely to be a short period of sterlingisation but the SNP policy is that we replace the pound with a separate Scottish currency as soon as practicable.    

 

That is the right way to go - my doubts are over the length of time some more "conservative" politicians envisage sterlingisation to last.

 

 PS His contributions over the OBFA are the rewriting of history at its worst - claiming that the SNP are the pro-Catholic party is up there as one of the biggest pieces of shit I've read on this forum.

Erm I didn't claim they were a pro Catholic Party. Please go back and read the appropriate page. Ill be waiting for the apology! 

[Malky3]

8 hours ago, git-intae-thum said:

Please do no judge Professor Murphy's work on the basis of a single link provided by a poster who doesn't really understand the context. Richard Murphy strongly backs a Scottish currency, hence his dislike of the sterling share plan.

Murphy's dismantling of GERS is a very enlightening read. The figures likely vastly underestimate true Scottish revenue. One would think that they had been set up almost deliberately to do so

I wonder why British nationalist posters choose not to link to those articles.

Perhaps because we aren't discussing it. 

Its a typical Nationalists trait to rubbish everything critical of the SNP or Scottish Independence as "scare mongering" but the truth is the reason so many expert articles like that exist is because the independence argument is so poorly made and so badly thought out its hard to conclude that there is anyone competent enough to create a successful new country. They shouldn't simply be dismissed out of hand. Instead it should have cultists questioning whether Scotland is ready for Independence. 

I reckon the reason the SNP filled their white paper with promises that everything would be the same after Independence was laziness. Why else would a party that has made so much political capital out of rubbishing Westminster opt to copy them in every way. 

Had Scotland won Independence in 2014 it would have been catastrophic for Scotland. There would have had to have been huge public sector cuts with each % point fall in oil. There was no plan for a new Scottish DWP or HMRC so Westminster could have charged what it liked. Fiscal decisions would continue to have been taken by the Bank of England with Scotland having to do whatever it was told. 

 

[D Angelo Barksdale]

15 minutes ago, Malky3 said:

Liar!

Sterlingisation is the current SNP policy. Some party activists want it discussed at conference. If they do I look forward to hearing an honest and frank assessment of how much that option would cost Scotland and what the risks would be. I also half expect Fred Goodwin to be appointed head of the new central bank.

The current policy is for a Scottish currency to be established after independence.

You should probably do a bit research before peddling your shite on here.

It lessens the risk of you looking like a complete moron.

Now, what about the OBFA ?

[Malky3]

7 minutes ago, This time Perthshirebell said:

I see Malky still hasn't explained how the UK can close rhe huge black hole in UK finance (regularly over 100 billion) which is certain to grow post-Brexit. 

Perhaps the UK separatists can provide a fully costed plan as to how they'd pay off the multi-Trillion pound debt?  

Would the NHS become fully privatised? 

Will stealth taxes rise again? 

Is the UK really viable as a going concern? 

Oh FFS! I have! Its because the UK has its own currency, world renouned as a safe haven for investment in bonds and gilts. As I outlined last years UK deficit was just over £30Bn. Our deficit has fallen year on year siince 2008. I presume we'll start paying down debt once the budget is in surplus. 

The UK is certainly viable as a going concern. 

I have no answer for the rest of your questions because the answer would depend on a number of variables. Similarly you would be unable to answer with any certainty how much of the UK national debt Scotland would have to accept as part of tbe divorce settlement. 

[Malky3]

4 minutes ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

The current policy is for a Scottish currency to be established after independence.

You should probably do a bit research before peddling your shite on here.

It lessens the risk of you looking like a complete moron.

Now, what about the OBFA ?

No its not, liar! 

[D Angelo Barksdale]

1 minute ago, Malky3 said:

No its not, liar! 

Erm, yes it is you absolute danger. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-48069470

'It means that the SNP's official policy is, for the first time, to replace sterling with a new Scottish currency after independence.'

Now, the OBFA ?

 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Very noble but utterly naive. Its another lie often peddled by nationalist that the day after Scotland votes for Independence that the SNP would immediately resign and a General Election would be called. Thats a fallacy. The SNP were quite open about it in 2014. They would stay in power for as long as the divorce talks went on. However they would, according to Nicola Sturgeon at the time have attempted to recruit Alastair Darling and Gordon Brown to help with the divorce negotiaions

Who said they would resign if we voted Yes?

 

Any election of a Scottish government would have to be after an independence deal was agreed between the Westminster and Scottish governments. That deal would have to be approved by the Scottish Parliament - that's democracy.

 

It would also be up to the electorate to decide who the governing party was afterwards - that's democracy too.

 

The problem with Unionists is they don't understand democracy - they continually hide behind lies and deceit and avoid the honest discussions.

 

I would sincerely hope that in the event of a Yes vote that other parties were brought in board for negotiations - at that point they are going to have to be honest about what they want an iScotland economy to look like. It's ironic that Unionists paint the SNP as some kind if dinosauric tax and spend party when the reality is that in terms of economics they are pretty conservative (with a small c).