ICTChris Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 The Championship has been a great division the last few years. I think what's annoying is that football pundits and journalists say that the 'big' teams in that league are Premiership clubs in waiting or that we need them in the top flight. We obviously don't NEED any specific team in the top flight. Also, Hibs and Dundee Utd were utter, complete shitemares in their relegation seasons and deserved to go down. There's an inferiority complex in Scottish that says that we are a 'laughing stock' because Hamilton Accies are in the top flight with crowds of 2000 but Hibs are in the First Division and can draw 18,000. We aren't a laughing stock - it's sport, sometimes teams who have big supports make a balls of things and lose. A lot of it is based on people worrying about what people outside Scotland think about Scottish football. I like Hibs and Dundee Utd and, provided it doesn't cost Caley, I'd like them back in the top flight. But they aren't in the top flight because they don't deserve to be and no amount of droning on by ex-pros and hacks changes that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 1 minute ago, ICTChris said: The Championship has been a great division the last few years. I think what's annoying is that football pundits and journalists say that the 'big' teams in that league are Premiership clubs in waiting or that we need them in the top flight. We obviously don't NEED any specific team in the top flight. Also, Hibs and Dundee Utd were utter, complete shitemares in their relegation seasons and deserved to go down. There's an inferiority complex in Scottish that says that we are a 'laughing stock' because Hamilton Accies are in the top flight with crowds of 2000 but Hibs are in the First Division and can draw 18,000. We aren't a laughing stock - it's sport, sometimes teams who have big supports make a balls of things and lose. A lot of it is based on people worrying about what people outside Scotland think about Scottish football. I like Hibs and Dundee Utd and, provided it doesn't cost Caley, I'd like them back in the top flight. But they aren't in the top flight because they don't deserve to be and no amount of droning on by ex-pros and hacks changes that. Agree with this. The Glasgow media especially love to hammer home the 'down South they think x about Scottish football' when it really is an irrelevance to most people in Scotland. The English always have and always will hold our game in contempt, we're not going to change it. Let's concentrate on ourselves. It does feel like the media here has been totally consumed by the commercial argument for everything. The "need" for Hibs and United back in the league is purely financial so that Sky or BT might be more interested. It amazes me the amount of people in the press who have totally lost sight of the fact that Hibs and United are there purely and simply because they were both useless. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootingboots Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 (edited) What I don't agree with is the line being trotted out that because Hibs get bigger crowds in the championship is that it shows we need a bigger top flight. No, the reason the crowds are big is because they are competing for something. If Friday night's match was a premiership fixture between 5th and 6th, would it have been a sell out? Not a chance. Just shows Scottish Football would be fine in the end without the OF. A competitive league would attract fans. Edited January 9, 2017 by shootingboots 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 The Championship has been a great division the last few years. I think what's annoying is that football pundits and journalists say that the 'big' teams in that league are Premiership clubs in waiting or that we need them in the top flight. We obviously don't NEED any specific team in the top flight. Also, Hibs and Dundee Utd were utter, complete shitemares in their relegation seasons and deserved to go down. There's an inferiority complex in Scottish that says that we are a 'laughing stock' because Hamilton Accies are in the top flight with crowds of 2000 but Hibs are in the First Division and can draw 18,000. We aren't a laughing stock - it's sport, sometimes teams who have big supports make a balls of things and lose. A lot of it is based on people worrying about what people outside Scotland think about Scottish football. I like Hibs and Dundee Utd and, provided it doesn't cost Caley, I'd like them back in the top flight. But they aren't in the top flight because they don't deserve to be and no amount of droning on by ex-pros and hacks changes that. Agree with this too like Every club is at the moment where they deserve to be. Fwiw if United came up I think they'd be really quite shite if they kept the same team. However I think Hibs have a really decent team and reckon they'd do a Sevco/Hearts, top 6 minimum. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 2 minutes ago, shootingboots said: What I don't agree with is the line being trotted out that because Hibs get bigger crowds in the championship is that it shows we need a bigger top flight. No, the reason the crowds are big is because they are competing for something. If Friday night's match was a premiership fixture between 5th and 6th, would it have been a sell out? Not a chance. Pretty much. Hibs attendances against United at Easter Road the last time they were in the top flight were: 9,171 and 9,608. The competition aspect is something that it seems the broadcast media and those running the game have difficulty getting their heads around. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussellAnderson Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 The English will stop treating our football with contempt the day they stop treating our country with contempt. I'll drop it for now, certainly Rangers and Hearts have been good since coming up, so their Championship players haven't been dreadful. Miller has surprised me, his fitness is incredible. The "top flight clubs in waiting" chat also riles me up. Its all relative, England have Bournemouth, Hull, etc, sub 20,000 crowds in their top flight, wee diddy clubs, but folk talk about the story and the fact that this is a great achievement! Up here, its how can we stop this from happening again!! Mental. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afca32 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Worth mentioning that Aberdeen provided more of a title challenge to Celtic than Hibs did to Rangers and either club to Hearts the previous season in the Championship. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 (edited) I think it depends what is meant tbh. By definition Hibs or Dundee Utd are a Premiership club in waiting (unless you think Morton will overtake both). What riles is talk along the lines of "this club gets X crowds so they just have to be in the top division". If that was so then in an English context Portsmouth should be in the Championship not EFL2, Sheffield Utd and Bradford on cusp of EPL not EFL1, etc. It's clearly got a pretty bad pedigree anyway. Obviously the last few years have seen Hibs, Hearts, Rangers and Dundee Utd drop down. Before that you also had Hibs spend a year in the second tier in the late 1990s and Dundee Utd did so a couple of years before that. Edited January 9, 2017 by HibeeJibee 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afca32 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Also the Premiership teams have utterly pumped the Championship sides in the play offs over the last two seasons. Whereas Hamilton beat Hibs the previous season when nobody gave a shit about the Championship. Of course the league that season was more exciting than the two that followed with the big clubs involved. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 4 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said: I think it depends what is meant tbh. By definition Hibs or Dundee Utd are a Premiership club in waiting (unless you think Morton will overtake both). What riles is talk along the lines of "this club gets X crowds so they just have to be in the top division". Agreed. Also they are absolute cowards when they say it because they never mention who should drop out to accommodate the "big" club, just that they want them back. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 I'm sure they'd gladly be rid of Hamilton, Inverness, Ross County and perhaps St Johnstone. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergie's no1 fan Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 There is a huge difference between saying Hibs & United are historically top flight clubs and oh they don't deserve to be in the Championship because they are big clubs. Both find themselves in that division because of severe mismanagement and bad board room decisions, same could be said for most relegated teams though. I'd definitely say that for Falkirk and StMirren. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweeperDee Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 1 hour ago, RussellAnderson said: Ross County were surely one of the greatest title winning Championship sides. Totally strolled it, and haven't looked back since. True that. Fond memories of the first division, was always a tough league where anyone could beat anyone. Best memory of all though is the Deefiant season; Neil McCann coming out of retirement to score a last minute winner against Raith. Think that unbeaten run was the most exciting period I've experienced as a Dundee fan. Anyway, I digress... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 1 minute ago, SweeperDee said: True that. Fond memories of the first division, was always a tough league where anyone could beat anyone. Best memory of all though is the Deefiant season; Neil McCann coming out of retirement to score a last minute winner against Raith. Think that unbeaten run was the most exciting period I've experienced as a Dundee fan. Anyway, I digress... That whole 'Deefiant' shit was shameful. Running around with 'Moral Champions' t-shirts was horrendous stuff. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweeperDee Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Just now, DA Baracus said: That whole 'Deefiant' shit was shameful. Running around with 'Moral Champions' t-shirts was horrendous stuff. Deefiant Dundee defy dastardly deduction. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 1 hour ago, 1320Lichtie said: Gomis played 20 games for hearts the season after they came up. Ozturk stripped of captaincy now but played in 1st season back, Pallardo wasn't utterly dreadful. Waghorn been injured most of the season, McKay just raped the best RB in the league a week ago, Tavernier played the majority of games. I like the other poster understand why Aberdeen fans are finding it difficult to admit this but the hearts and Rangers teams that were in the Championship were decent teams and they've both shown it when they've came up. The new signings at Rangers haven't had much impact at all this season and it's still the keeper, Kiernan, Wilson, Wallace, Holt, Halliday, McKay, Miller etc playing every single week. Currently sitting second.Hearts team didn't change much either after promotion. Danny Wilson, Adam Eckersley, James Keatings, Scott Robinson, Jason Holt, Kevin McHattie, Miguel Pallardo, Gary Oliver, Kenny Anderson, Genero Zeefuik, Dale Carrick and Brad McKay all left after helping Hearts win the Championship. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salvo Montalbano Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 14 minutes ago, DA Baracus said: That whole 'Deefiant' shit was shameful. Running around with 'Moral Champions' t-shirts was horrendous stuff. Especially when they had a 25 point deduction and ended up 26 points behind the Pars. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 11 minutes ago, Salvo Montalbano said: Especially when they had a 25 point deduction and ended up 26 points behind the Pars. The run they went on was incredible and they should have celebrated it, but to make out they were harshly treated and were somehow 'moral champions' was not only exceptionally ludicrous but hideously distasteful as, especially since it was their second administration. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 The strongest second tier I can remember was probably 1990-1997 ish. Ourselves, Dunfermline in particular, Morton, Falkirk, St Johnstone and Airdrie all had very good sides for the majority of that time. Even the DABs side that was relegated in 1995 was pretty good. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swello Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 "On the Premiership sides in waiting" stuff - one thing that football people are seemingly incapable of is performing any sort or re-evaluation or questioning the conventional wisdom. The pundit or journos idea of Scottish football seems still to be based on the 1980's and acts as if the huge re-adjustment over the past decade hadn't happened. The idea that Hibs and Utd are somehow "special cases" in the Championship, just as Hearts and Rangers were before is just wrong IMO. In this worldview, Dundee Utd are mystifyingly (to anyone under 40 at least) viewed be some sort of giant that the top league is bereft without, which is laughable really. I genuinely think Utd are a good club and I'll be happy to see them back if it happens, but on a competitive front, Utd would offer no more than St Johnstone are currently. Hibs, despite being a city club and being well supported, have scarcely made a dent in the Top 6 over the past decade. They've been badly run and have been shown up by clubs a fraction of their size and with nothing like the facilities that Hibs have at their disposal. Just as in their last relegation in the 90s, they aren't missed in a competitive sense in any way. If a club gets relegated for being shite (either off-field or on), they are no different to the other clubs in their new division - and their tame pundits & reporters shouldn't expect the rest of us to mourn their absence in any way or fret about when they'll be "back". If my team got relegated in May after 30 years in the top league, not a single f**k would be given - and rightly so, I don't see why it should be different for any other club regardless of how good they used to be. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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