Rugby or American Football!?

[MarkoRaj]

What???

What is hard to understand about that? How can a game that is 40 minutes long last 4 hours and not be considered 'stop-start?' That's only 16% of the time spent watching that actually is spent playing. Rugby is double that

[1320Lichtie]

What is hard to understand about that? How can a game that is 40 minutes long last 4 hours and not be considered 'stop-start?' That's only 16% of the time spent watching that actually is spent playing. Rugby is double that

Well why were you questioning what he said it was all true???

And the game is 60 minutes long, it lasted longer than normal because of the HT. An average game would be about just over 3 hours.

[peasy23]

Like both sports tbh. I can fully understand why some people can't get into American Football, took me a long time to fully understand the rules. Biggest bugbear with Rugby Union at the moment is the amount of time killed by scrums, can often completely kill the flow of a game.

[invergowrie arab]

yes was talking UK viewing figures - I had assume the thread was with regards to the popularity in this country not globally. 4 million for the Superbowl is impressive, how does that rank with a regular season game?

American Football though (and this goes for most US Sport) is really popular in the NFL, and US College / High School football, but apart from the Canadian league is not a popular spectator sport anywhere else. And in the US there are pretty much no leagues underneath the NFL so all the support is focussed on a handful of teams. The equivalent would be the UK having 16 football teams in a league as a professional league, and every other team being in leagues equivalent to the juniors, apart from every university having teams playing in front to tens of thousands of people, and having thousands of grown men going to watch their local school team.

The Claymores aside, am assuming that no one here has been to see one of the Scottish teams play in the BAFL? Which is American Football is that good a sport I would be assuming people would be doing?

if you take the pro sides Glasgow were selling out Scotstoun last season, the stadium is now to small for them, but there isn't many 15-20k stadiums in Scotland which would be the right size for them. Avg's last year for Glasgow of approx. 6500 and Edinburgh approx. 5000 with Edinburgh v Glasgow this year about 25,000

I'm a big rugby fan and played for years so no axe to grind but your comparison is ludicrous.

You can't compare a pro sport with all the media and marketing associated with that and an amateur outfit playing out of a public park.

Rugby and American football, unsurprisingly, have completely different fan cultures. Even in America football is very much a TV sport, as it is here.

[Loon From Outta Toon]

Rugby has to be the better sport by far!

American Football is so long winded and boring to watch!

[MarkoRaj]

Well why were you questioning what he said it was all true???

And the game is 60 minutes long, it lasted longer than normal because of the HT. An average game would be about just over 3 hours.

It wasn't true though, that's why I questioned it. Rugby has more action per minute, about double. So the stop/start argument stands. So the post was wrong. I feel like I'm spelling it out for you a bit here, but I'm not sure what it is you can't grasp.

[Homer Thompson]

yes was talking UK viewing figures - I had assume the thread was with regards to the popularity in this country not globally. 4 million for the Superbowl is impressive, how does that rank with a regular season game?

American Football though (and this goes for most US Sport) is really popular in the NFL, and US College / High School football, but apart from the Canadian league is not a popular spectator sport anywhere else. And in the US there are pretty much no leagues underneath the NFL so all the support is focussed on a handful of teams. The equivalent would be the UK having 16 football teams in a league as a professional league, and every other team being in leagues equivalent to the juniors, apart from every university having teams playing in front to tens of thousands of people, and having thousands of grown men going to watch their local school team.

The Superbowl is in the top 3 sporting events worldwide for tv viewers, so I think its safe to say its popularity extends outside of the US and Canada.

Youre comparison between college football and the juniors is also way off the mark. There are around 100 colleges playing in the various divisions, pretty much all of them with setups, crowds and budgets comparable with all but the top football teams in this country. Certainly if you were to compare the bottom college teams with the bottom football league sides, the colleges would be well ahead.

There are other leagues in North America, like the Arena league and Canadian. However, the setup of progression from high school to college to NFL is pretty well established.

The Claymores aside, am assuming that no one here has been to see one of the Scottish teams play in the BAFL? Which is American Football is that good a sport I would be assuming people would be doing?

if you take the pro sides Glasgow were selling out Scotstoun last season, the stadium is now to small for them, but there isn't many 15-20k stadiums in Scotland which would be the right size for them. Avg's last year for Glasgow of approx. 6500 and Edinburgh approx. 5000 with Edinburgh v Glasgow this year about 25,000

Im a football fan but I dont go along and watch the Southern Counties if I cant make a Queens match. No offence to those who take part but Im not interested in watching that level. Like the lower leagues of football the current NFL setup in Britain is far more about participation than spectators.

Im not sure why you've quoted me then gone on to agree with me, but making it sound like youre not!

What is hard to understand about that? How can a game that is 40 minutes long last 4 hours and not be considered 'stop-start?' That's only 16% of the time spent watching that actually is spent playing. Rugby is double that

Firstly, a game is 60 minutes - 4 x 15 minute quarters. No one said it wasnt stop start, the point was that it isnt any more stop start than rugby. The difference is that while the NFL players are preparing for the next play the clock, sometimes, stops whereas while rugby players are setting up, and collapsing a scrum, or psyching themselves up to kick a ball, the clock keeps going.

You've absolutely nothing to back up your "double that" statement. If the clock was stopped in rugby, similarly to the NFL, the games would be much longer. Theres no way of knowing by how much though

[MarkoRaj]

Firstly, a game is 60 minutes - 4 x 15 minute quarters. No one said it wasnt stop start, the point was that it isnt any more stop start than rugby. The difference is that while the NFL players are preparing for the next play the clock, sometimes, stops whereas while rugby players are setting up, and collapsing a scrum, or psyching themselves up to kick a ball, the clock keeps going.

You've absolutely nothing to back up your "double that" statement. If the clock was stopped in rugby, similarly to the NFL, the games would be much longer. Theres no way of knowing by how much though

Pretty daft mistake by me to be fair. However the clock isn't always stopped in NFL is it?

http://www.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748704281204575002852055561406

Rugby is actually slightly more than I had thought but not exactly amazing

http://www.theroar.com.au/2012/09/03/how-long-is-a-rugby-match-really/

I'm sure football is around 60 mins action per game but I'm not going to bother dredging up articles considering we all agree that football wipes the floor with both

[Homer Thompson]

Pretty daft mistake by me to be fair. However the clock isn't always stopped in NFL is it?

http://www.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748704281204575002852055561406

Rugby is actually slightly more than I had thought but not exactly amazing

http://www.theroar.com.au/2012/09/03/how-long-is-a-rugby-match-really/

I'm sure football is around 60 mins action per game but I'm not going to bother dredging up articles considering we all agree that football wipes the floor with both

No, it doesnt always stop but then there isnt always 40 seconds between plays either as quoted in the article.

Its an interesting articles but I cant say Im convinced at the findings. The other one is also interesting, in that the time in play in rugby has gone up in recent years

[honestly united]

My point was more along the lines of as a stadium spectator sport American Football is pretty much confined to NFL, US College and High School and the Canadian league. Outside that there is really no other leagues with any sort of following. Even compared to real football and baseball in the US which have a vast network of succesfull minor leagues, American Football doesn't really have anything that compares.

My point about the juniors seems to have been missed, I meant if you were to put football in the UK in the context of American Football you would have a british league of 16 teams with London, Manchester, Liverpool, Glasgow team etc then everyone other pro team wouldn't exist and the likes of Ayr, Queens, Hearts Aberdeen etc would not exist as we know them, but would be at the status of Junior teams playing in local leagues, and instead we would be out watching either your nearest university or school football team.

Even world wide comparing Superbowl final as a comparison to Rugby World Cup final (which is the 2 best teams on the planet at their respective sports), the figures I have seen puts Superbowl at 110 million vs Rugby world cup final at 120 million.

To be fair it is really hard to compare the popularity of the 2 as they are organised so differently. Football to Rugby is an easier comparison as they are organised along similar structures, ie club, club continental competitions, internationals etc but US sport is organised along High School, College then 1 pro league in the US only which is popular then local competitions in other countries that are no where near as popular, bar say Baseball in Japan & Central America, and basketball in europe although that is organised in a more football way ie country leagues in divisions and european competition for the best teams

[The_Kincardine]

My point was more along the lines of as a stadium spectator sport American Football is pretty much confined to NFL, US College and High School and the Canadian league. Outside that there is really no other leagues with any sort of following.

Football's a simple game so its easy to see why it's become universal.

Rugby and cricket are both more complex than 'soccer' but both have greater ubiety than American Football.

That American Football has been pretty-much confined to one country when other more complex sports have been exported indicates that it's truly pish.

[1320Lichtie]

Pretty daft mistake by me to be fair. However the clock isn't always stopped in NFL is it?

http://www.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748704281204575002852055561406

Rugby is actually slightly more than I had thought but not exactly amazing

http://www.theroar.com.au/2012/09/03/how-long-is-a-rugby-match-really/

I'm sure football is around 60 mins action per game but I'm not going to bother dredging up articles considering we all agree that football wipes the floor with both

Im starting to enjoy NFL more than a lot of football games you get on the tele now in honesty. So much turgid pish on.

I'm an NFL fan so I'm obviously going to say NFL, those that use the stop start argument clearly have never watched a game, it's 40 seconds between plays a minute if someone takes a time out

And you replied to that with a post stating you must've imagined staying up for 4 hours on Sunday night. What has that got to do with anything?

[Co.Down Hibee]

How long is an average passage of play in American Football? Say for example in the superbowl final just passed, it can't be much more than 10 seconds ,if that even.

[Zanetti]

How long is an average passage of play in American Football? Say for example in the superbowl final just passed, it can't be much more than 10 seconds ,if that even.

10 seconds is generous, it's closer to 5 or 6. This is the exact reason why I don't enjoy the sport, there's just no flow to it whatsoever.

[jmothecat]

If they changed the rules slightly in American football, to get rid of the 'downs' completely, I think it could be a good sport.

Instead of having to turn over the ball after four downs, have it where when the ball is grounded/player is tackled, the clock keeps moving and the defending team try to recover the ball whilst the attacking team tries to retain possession. Have a rule where the forward pass is only allowed once per possession, but backwards passing is allowed as much as wanted. Could add more flow to the game and would prevent all the needless breaks after five seconds of action. It would also do away with the ridiculous aspect of changing the entire team depending on whether the side is attacking or defending.

As for fans of either sport I tend to find Rugby fans outside of universities to be fine, but American football fans to just be a bit odd. British fans of NFL pronouncing 'defence' as 'D-fence' is just weird.

[Homer Thompson]

My point was more along the lines of as a stadium spectator sport American Football is pretty much confined to NFL, US College and High School and the Canadian league. Outside that there is really no other leagues with any sort of following. Even compared to real football and baseball in the US which have a vast network of succesfull minor leagues, American Football doesn't really have anything that compares.

My point about the juniors seems to have been missed, I meant if you were to put football in the UK in the context of American Football you would have a british league of 16 teams with London, Manchester, Liverpool, Glasgow team etc then everyone other pro team wouldn't exist and the likes of Ayr, Queens, Hearts Aberdeen etc would not exist as we know them, but would be at the status of Junior teams playing in local leagues, and instead we would be out watching either your nearest university or school football team.

Even world wide comparing Superbowl final as a comparison to Rugby World Cup final (which is the 2 best teams on the planet at their respective sports), the figures I have seen puts Superbowl at 110 million vs Rugby world cup final at 120 million.

To be fair it is really hard to compare the popularity of the 2 as they are organised so differently. Football to Rugby is an easier comparison as they are organised along similar structures, ie club, club continental competitions, internationals etc but US sport is organised along High School, College then 1 pro league in the US only which is popular then local competitions in other countries that are no where near as popular, bar say Baseball in Japan & Central America, and basketball in europe although that is organised in a more football way ie country leagues in divisions and european competition for the best teams

Fair enough, I misunderstood you're comparison of the juniors. I still think you're comparison is flawed though. Yes, we would all be supporting universities but the implication is that they would be sub-standard or at a level of professionalism UK universities currently compete at. That doesnt translate at all. As I said, their facilities and budgets are much more comparable to professional teams in this country. Given that there are almost as many universities in the US as professional teams in the UK, it would almost be a straight swap, in terms of options.

The 110 million for the Superbowl is the US viewing figures - which CBS now seem to be claiming were around 160m. The rugby WCs 120m is worldwide. I'd be surprised if less than 10m watched the Superbowl outside the US

If they changed the rules slightly in American football, to get rid of the 'downs' completely, I think it could be a good sport.

Instead of having to turn over the ball after four downs, have it where when the ball is grounded/player is tackled, the clock keeps moving and the defending team try to recover the ball whilst the attacking team tries to retain possession. Have a rule where the forward pass is only allowed once per possession, but backwards passing is allowed as much as wanted. Could add more flow to the game and would prevent all the needless breaks after five seconds of action. It would also do away with the ridiculous aspect of changing the entire team depending on whether the side is attacking or defending.

As for fans of either sport I tend to find Rugby fans outside of universities to be fine, but American football fans to just be a bit odd. British fans of NFL pronouncing 'defence' as 'D-fence' is just weird.

I see what you did there

[honestly united]

I agree that if it was a direct comparison UK Universities would be at a very high standard, I was more trying to illustrate that it's hard to compare the 2 when the second biggest American Football competition is the US College system which doesn't compete with players with the NFL and there is no other professional (CFL apart) competition worldwide.

I thought the 110 million was worldwide (granted I took it from a memo comparing it to the 1.013 billion for the World Cup Final in Brazil

[Albertlegend]

And you replied to that with a post stating you must've imagined staying up for 4 hours on Sunday night. What has that got to do with anything?

I think your confused I never mentioned watching a game for 4 hours?

[MarkoRaj]

And you replied to that with a post stating you must've imagined staying up for 4 hours on Sunday night. What has that got to do with anything?

He said if you used the stop start argument then you've never watched a game. I disagree - I have watched a game and it was so stop start it lasted 4 and a half hours

[Homer Thompson]

I agree that if it was a direct comparison UK Universities would be at a very high standard, I was more trying to illustrate that it's hard to compare the 2 when the second biggest American Football competition is the US College system which doesn't compete with players with the NFL and there is no other professional (CFL apart) competition worldwide.

I thought the 110 million was worldwide (granted I took it from a memo comparing it to the 1.013 billion for the World Cup Final in Brazil

No, you're right, comparison is difficult. Although, you could argue that the likes of Queens, Hearts and Aberdeen arent competing for players with the EPL clubs.

The very different setup means its hard to see how the, proposed, draft would work in the SPFL.