DrewDon Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Would be decent if some left-wing folk put half as much energy into getting worked-up about the blight of antisemitism on our society as they do about challenging allegations of antisemitism within the Labour Party. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Ken Livingstone should be booted from the Labour Party pronto and Labour should be doing more to investigate accusations of anti-Semitism within the party. That discussion can't and shouldn't be led by Islamophobes and TERFs who are transparent as heck in their outrage. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmothecat2 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Ken Livingstone should be booted from the Labour Party pronto and Labour should be doing more to investigate accusations of anti-Semitism within the party. That discussion can't and shouldn't be led by Islamophobes and TERFs who are transparent as heck in their outrage. I can see how Islamophobes might have an interest in antisemitism in a fucked up 'enemy of my enemy' sort of way, but how are feminists related? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Nobody's mentioned feminists in general here, champ. It's a more general issue around TERFs having a laughable claim to caring about oppressed peoples considering their raison d'etre is policing other women's access to refuge spaces and denying them bodily autonomy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmothecat2 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Nobody's mentioned feminists in general here, champ. It's a more general issue around TERFs having a laughable claim to caring about oppressed peoples considering their raison d'etre is policing other women's access to refuge spaces and denying them bodily autonomy. You are happy to brandy about abusive phrases like 'TERF' to describe people with legitimate concerns about trans activists trying to undo safe spaces, harm what feminists have fought for and for making uncontroversial comments about how women and transwomen aren't the same and have different experiences. I still fail to see how it is in any way relevant to being angry or disturbed by antisemitism within the party. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 You are happy to brandy about abusive phrases like 'TERF' to describe people with legitimate concerns about trans activists trying to undo safe spaces, harm what feminists have fought for and for making uncontroversial comments about how women and transwomen aren't the same and have different experiences. I still fail to see how it is in any way relevant to being angry or disturbed by antisemitism within the party. What's abusive about TERF? It's a literal descriptor. You're not one of those "centrist' is a slur" losers are you? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Jmothecat2 said: Disagreement with Israel is no excuse for antisemitism at all. That their antisemitism leads itself to hating Israel and holding it on this weird pedestal they don't hold other countries is a different matter. How many other countries are illegally occupying another against the expressed wishes of the inhabitants, and denying those who don't share the occupiers' religion a vote? Edited September 27, 2017 by welshbairn 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmothecat2 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 What's abusive about TERF? It's a literal descriptor. You're not one of those "centrist' is a slur" losers are you? Centrist isn't a slur, though often used incorrectly. TERF is exclusively used as a term of a abuse to shut down feminists who challenge aspects of trans politics. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Would be decent if some left-wing folk put half as much energy into getting worked-up about the blight of antisemitism on our society as they do about challenging allegations of antisemitism within the Labour Party. I'd suggest that there may be other blights on our society that are more pressing issues if people have spare energyThe "anti defamation league" ranked the UK 97th out of 102 in it's antisemitisim survey.http://global100.adl.org/public/ADL-Global-100-Executive-Summary.pdfThat's not to say that it's not there in society or indeed the Labour Party but given that Corbyn's immediate predecessor as leader was Jewish it seems a bit of a stretch to assign institutional guilt to it on this charge. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrewDon Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 3 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said: I'd suggest that there may be other blights on our society that are more pressing issues if people have spare energy The "anti defamation league" ranked the UK 97th out of 102 in it's antisemitisim survey.http://global100.adl.org/public/ADL-Global-100-Executive-Summary.pdf That's not to say that it's not there in society or indeed the Labour Party but given that Corbyn's immediate predecessor as leader was Jewish it seems a bit of a stretch to assign institutional guilt to it on this charge. Then again, we also have reports like this: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/anti-semitic-hate-crime-attacks-british-jews-assaults-uk-incidents-record-high-cst-research-a7861721.html. Really, a choice shouldn't have to be made; as a society, we are more than capable of fighting prejudice on multiple fronts. For what it's worth, I wouldn't argue that the Labour Party is an inherently anti-Semitic institution, but as long as people like Livingstone are spared expulsion, I can understand why some Jewish members and supporters might not feel entirely comfortable. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 I'm still not utterly condemning Livingston. He's a moron for getting involved but did it all not begin from a long standing feud with an absolute rag (said rag itself having a chequered past when it comes to antisemitism (and a version that no-one could deny)). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheProgressiveLiberal Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 (edited) I always figured left wing "anti-Semitism" is really just anti-Westernism, but the Jews have left over cache as an oppressed people so that complicates anti-Western activism when directed at Jews instead of Gentiles. They don't hate the Zionists because they are Jews, but because they are Western. I'll take the boycott people seriously when they start to treat every other regime in the region that engages in the same shit as Israel in the same way. We can start by boycotting Turkey and shitting on their Muslim rulers. Edited September 27, 2017 by TheProgressiveLiberal 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 (edited) 13 minutes ago, TheProgressiveLiberal said: I always figured left wing "anti-Semitism" is really just anti-Westernism, but the Jews have left over cache as an oppressed people so that complicates anti-Western activism when directed at Jews instead of Gentiles. They don't hate the Zionists because they are Jews, but because they are Western. I'll take the boycott people seriously when they start to treat every other regime in the region that engages in the same shit as Israel in the same way. We can start by boycotting Turkey and shitting on their Muslim rulers. A mild correction here. Not all Zionists are Jews and VV. Getting the terminology right is important. Edited September 27, 2017 by The_Kincardine 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Bully Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 How many other countries are illegally occupying another against the expressed wishes of the inhabitants, and denying those who don't share the occupiers' religion a vote? Pretty much every country in the world at some time.US, Australia, even the U.K. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Pretty much every country in the world at some time.US, Australia, even the U.K. Can't remember any recent occurrances of developed nations occupying an entire people that has no standing army and literally forcing them to live in a tiny strip of land with no imports/exports, destroyed infrastucture, hospitals and schools. Its a fucking disgrace and the Israeli government are scumbags. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheProgressiveLiberal Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 2 minutes ago, AUFC90 said: Can't remember any recent occurrances of developed nations occupying an entire people that has no standing army and literally forcing them to live in a tiny strip of land with no imports/exports, destroyed infrastucture, hospitals and schools. Its a fucking disgrace and the Israeli government are scumbags. It's not like the Muslims have ever in 60 years given the Jews any reason to think there can be peace. It's a tough spot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee-Bey Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 21 minutes ago, TheProgressiveLiberal said: I always figured left wing "anti-Semitism" is really just anti-Westernism, but the Jews have left over cache as an oppressed people so that complicates anti-Western activism when directed at Jews instead of Gentiles. They don't hate the Zionists because they are Jews, but because they are Western. I think you figured wrong. 24 minutes ago, TheProgressiveLiberal said: I'll take the boycott people seriously when they start to treat every other regime in the region that engages in the same shit as Israel in the same way. We can start by boycotting Turkey and shitting on their Muslim rulers. Yes because no one ever criticises other regimes in the region do they ? You are aware that Turkey is a secular republic ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 It's not like the Muslims have ever in 60 years given the Jews any reason to think there can be peace. It's a tough spot. The jews moved in and literally started bulldozing them out. I don't blame any Palestinian for hating Israel. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheProgressiveLiberal Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 1 minute ago, AUFC90 said: The jews moved in and literally started bulldozing them out. I don't blame any Palestinian for hating Israel. Neither do I. They have every right to do so. I also don't blame the Jews for thinking that any settlement which would please Western leftists is a terrible deal for their long term security. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Neither do I. They have every right to do so. I also don't blame the Jews for thinking that any settlement which would please Western leftists is a terrible deal for their long term security. I dunno, they could maybe stop building settlements on Palestinian land. I don't think subjugating Muslims in a Muslim part of the world is very good for their long term security either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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