General Politics Thread

[Malky3]

On 23/11/2019 at 09:53, Detournement said:

10 points about UK government. People who worry about government debts are idiots. Government borrowing rates are never going back up.

Corporate and personal debt is the huge problem in the UK and beyond and can only be solved by increase government spending.

Eh what? 

Please feel free to explain how borrowing more solves debt? 

[BawWatchin]

Andrew Neil with a medieval wig spouting shite as far back as the 70s....

 

[Granny Danger]

I see the homophobic sky-fairy worshippers have been permanently banned from protesting outside Anderton Park Primary School.

Happy days. 

[Pet Jeden]

On 23/11/2019 at 09:53, Detournement said:

10 points about UK government. People who worry about government debts are idiots. Government borrowing rates are never going back up.

Corporate and personal debt is the huge problem in the UK and beyond and can only be solved by increase government spending.

The Jubillee Debt Campaign has written a briefing entitled 10 key facts about UK debt. They are worth sharing.

Ten key facts everyone should know before discussing debt issues in the UK:

1.  A quarter of UK government debt is owed to the UK government itself

2.  Three-quarters of UK government debt is owed to people and institutions in the UK

3.  Of G7 economies, only Germany has a lower government debt (as a proportion of GDP) than the UK

4.  The UK government can currently borrow at the cheapest interest rates in its history

5.  The UK government is paying virtually the lowest amount of interest on its debt in recorded history, as a proportion of GDP

6.  UK government tax revenue (as a proportion of GDP) is the third lowest of G7 countries, and well behind other European countries

7.  The debt of the UK’s private sector is more than four times as big as that of the government

8.  Unsecured personal debt in the UK is rising rapidly

9.  The UK economy has the largest deficit with the rest of the world of any rich country

10.  The UK’s finance sector is the most exposed to a crisis of any G7 economy

Interesting, but not an entirely balanced analysis...

1.  So, no doubt flatteringly counted as a positive in the UK's balance sheet.

2. So what is the implication? That it would be okay to default?

3. IMF says that's bollocks. Only Japan and Italy are higher than UK. https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/CG_DEBT_GDP@GDD/CHN/FRA/DEU/ITA/JPN/GBR/USA

6. Don't you think UK corporate and personal debt levels affect how far taxes can/should be pushed?

7. Ditto

8. Ditto

The point about the level of private debts is fair enough, but it is no comfort. It just shows that we have a a problem all round. And, by the way, what account is taken of our Local Authorities and our £300bn PFI debts?

I would say that people who don't worry about government debts are idiots. Or selfish. Or Argentinian. Or Zimbabwean.

Edited November 26, 2019 by Pet Jeden

[jakedee]

Watching daily politics today, listening to the Labour spokesperson on climate change explaining how their target for carbon neutrality by 2030 (when questioned if this is achievable,as deemed by some scientists as unachievable))is not the important issue.
Maybe have a word with her Holyrood colleagues about criticising targets not reached then.

[coprolite]

On 25/11/2019 at 12:05, Malky3 said:

Eh what? 

Please feel free to explain how borrowing more solves debt? 

Because government borrowing equates to private saving.
 

If the above facts  are true and the vast majority of government debt is owed to the uk private sector, then government borrowing increases private assets (through gilts) directly. 

This doesn’t mean that it directly increases the assets of individual people with debt though. In theory, with efficient money and credit markets, it should/could. 
 

there are also macro effects of government spending directly generating income for government employees and capital spending increasing productivity (if it’s on useful stuff).

fwiw I Disagree with the contention that we shouldn’t worry about government debt. We shouldn’t worry about our current borrowing though.

Government borrowing is cheap, productivity is low and private debt is high and expensive. 
 

It is an absolute no brainer that we (The country) should be borrowing to invest and grow. 
 

After 10 years of unnecessary and harmful spending cuts this seems to be getting through to even the most Tory of msm 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Because government borrowing equates to private saving.

 

If the above facts  are true and the vast majority of government debt is owed to the uk private sector, then government borrowing increases private assets (through gilts) directly. 

This doesn’t mean that it directly increases the assets of individual people with debt though. In theory, with efficient money and credit markets, it should/could. 

 

there are also macro effects of government spending directly generating income for government employees and capital spending increasing productivity (if it’s on useful stuff).

fwiw I Disagree with the contention that we shouldn’t worry about government debt. We shouldn’t worry about our current borrowing though.

Government borrowing is cheap, productivity is low and private debt is high and expensive. 

 

It is an absolute no brainer that we (The country) should be borrowing to invest and grow. 

 

After 10 years of unnecessary and harmful spending cuts this seems to be getting through to even the most Tory of msm 

Malky is a car mechanic not an economist - he won't understand that.

 

Mind you - I don't think he understands most of the cut & paste shite he posts either.

 

[BFTD]

1 hour ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

Malky is a car mechanic not an economist - he won't understand that.

Mind you - I don't think understands most of the cut & paste shite he posts either.

I thought Malky, Oaksoft, and Glenmorangie were all an engineer?

Has he switched to pretending to fix cars now? Interesting.

[Baxter Parp]

Scotland's private schools to start paying full tax from next year

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scotland-s-private-schools-to-start-paying-full-tax-from-next-year-1-5056938

At last, some good news.

[Detournement]

The PISA results are out. Scotland lagging behind England isn't good.

As someone in their mid 30s I can't say i'm shocked that kids are getting dumber though.

[SweeperDee]

The PISA results are out. Scotland lagging behind England isn't good.
As someone in their mid 30s I can't say i'm shocked that kids are getting dumber though.

I mean, reading is improving. We are still above OECD averages on every measure I’m sure as well. Of course the fact we are lagging behind rUK (especially Wales, but they’ve improved massively since their poor results a few years ago, even compared to England) isn’t great.

Would definitely argue against your last point though, teenagers now are definitely as smart, or smarter than when I was in that age bracket (I’m 25 now).

[Baxter Parp]

18 minutes ago, SweeperDee said:

I mean, reading is improving. We are still above OECD averages on every measure I’m sure as well. Of course the fact we are lagging behind rUK (especially Wales, but they’ve improved massively since their poor results a few years ago, even compared to England) isn’t great.

 

We're ahead of Wales, are you thinking of England?

[SweeperDee]

We're ahead of Wales, are you thinking of England?

 

No. Wales have had the largest improvement I’m sure, considering they had appalling scores in the last set of PISA’s (sorry not the last set, but the set from 2012 onwards, they’ve tried their hardest to improve and it’s showing, even if on some measures they are still below the OECD average).

 

I’ll be fucked if I know why Scotland is seemingly struggling with the Science subjects.

[Baxter Parp]

1 minute ago, SweeperDee said:

No. Wales have had the largest improvement I’m sure, considering they had appalling scores in the last set of PISA’s.

 

They've improved but we're still ahead.  Ironically, I believe they're adopting a new system modelled on our Curriculum For Excellence.

[SweeperDee]

They've improved but we're still ahead.  Ironically, I believe they're adopting a new system modelled on our Curriculum For Excellence.

I never said we weren’t ahead. But our rate of improvement overall isn’t comparable to theirs.

[Baxter Parp]

1 minute ago, SweeperDee said:

I never said we weren’t ahead. But our rate of improvement overall isn’t comparable to theirs.

 

"Of course the fact we are lagging behind rUK (especially Wales, but they’ve improved massively since their poor results a few years ago, even compared to England) isn’t great."

Bit confusing sentence then.

[SweeperDee]

"Of course the fact we are lagging behind rUK (especially Wales, but they’ve improved massively since their poor results a few years ago, even compared to England) isn’t great."
Bit confusing sentence then.

Besides the reading measure, our PISA scores on the other categories are on a downward trend, compared to Wales.

Surely we should be angling for the same trend of improvement as Wales in maths and science? Like I said, I can’t think of a reason why we’re seeing a downward trend in scores for those subjects.

I’m not being facetious by the way.

[Baxter Parp]

5 minutes ago, SweeperDee said:

 

Besides the reading measure, our PISA scores on the other categories are on a downward trend, compared to Wales.

Surely we should be angling for the same trend of improvement as Wales in maths and science? Like I said, I can’t think of a reason why we’re seeing a downward trend in scores for those subjects.

I’m not being facetious by the way.

 

No, I agree, it's disappointing and not good enough.

[John Lambies Doos]

ROI seems to be doing very well, we should copy them.

Don't be daft, we're too wee to do that

[SweeperDee]

I’d say the fact that reading scores have improved significantly would suggest problem solving and critical thinking aren’t on the decline. The essay subjects and softer sciences encourage those skills more so than mathematics and hard science (I understand a few might disagree with this), so I wouldn’t agree with you there, Oaksoft.

 

More simply, you can learn by rote better in maths than you can for modern studies, for example.