General Politics Thread

[NotThePars]

https://www.joe.co.uk/news/david-lammy-responds-rumours-keir-starmer-resigning-labour-leader-260133

“David Lammy has denied rumours of Keir Starmer resigning, saying there is 'no chance' of the Labour leader walking from his post. Presumably because he wouldn't be able to abstain from such a choice”

[J_Stewart]

As we’re painfully aware, pretty much every blue tick and centrist da and ma for the last five years have claimed that any centrist labour leader would be absolutely skooshing ahead of this wildly incompetent Tory government.

Now that they’ve got their Beige Knight (of the realm) at the helm and it’s not resulted in “the adults in the room having a frank, open and honest exchange of ideas whilst reclaiming the discourse” (or whatever blue sky, middle-management bullshit phrase is de riguer), and Sir Keith is abstaining and gaffing on a daily basis - hilariously disproving their West Wing fantasies - it wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest if he was quietly ushered out the back door (family issues having arisen, NAP) before doing any real damage in the hope that everyone who backstabbed and undermined Corbyn et al will avoid having significant egg on their face and can continue their cushy roles on select committees, focus groups or writing columns for whatever rag will have them.

England is a right wing country that simply does not want a labour government, and I think the children of Sorkin might be finally starting to realise that.

That, or the Jess Philips bandwagon restarts in earnest. Some laugh either way, tbh.

[Guest Jedi]

Don't disagree that they should be doing better, but the Tories have well and truly captured the Little Englander zeitgeist over the past few years.

'Who's fault....:?'

'Immigrants and the EU' comes the reply

'Who will sort it out'?

'Only Boris can'...trumps the media

Any attempted discussion about issues like public services, jobs, pensions, taxation, equality....more traditional Labour territory has all been drowned out entirely by the above over the past 5 years now. The Tories haven't even been 'governing' since 2016, and they haven't had to. Its a shocking indictment of the state of political debate and discourse.

[NotThePars]

1 hour ago, Jedi said:

Don't disagree that they should be doing better, but the Tories have well and truly captured the Little Englander zeitgeist over the past few years.

'Who's fault....:?'

'Immigrants and the EU' comes the reply

'Who will sort it out'?

'Only Boris can'...trumps the media

Any attempted discussion about issues like public services, jobs, pensions, taxation, equality....more traditional Labour territory has all been drowned out entirely by the above over the past 5 years now. The Tories haven't even been 'governing' since 2016, and they haven't had to. Its a shocking indictment of the state of political debate and discourse.

It's also been deliberately smothered from within the party though. You've had Rebecca Long-Bailey edged out clearly for being too close to the National Education Union while she was being briefed against while in post, you've got a Shadow Chancellor who's a complete nonentity in comparison to John McDonnell who held a vision and was pretty outspoken about it, and you've got a leader that's failed to take a strong tack on anything apart from demanding the schools go back and now saying he admires the architect of the Hostile Environment. 

Labour have went from a party at war with itself over providing a genuine alternative and left wing vision of the country to a party still at war with itself but now it's over whether it should be saying anything at all.

Edited January 2, 2021 by NotThePars

[SANTAN]

11 hours ago, Jedi said:

Don't disagree that they should be doing better, but the Tories have well and truly captured the Little Englander zeitgeist over the past few years.

'Who's fault....:?'

'Immigrants and the EU' comes the reply

'Who will sort it out'?

'Only Boris can'...trumps the media

Any attempted discussion about issues like public services, jobs, pensions, taxation, equality....more traditional Labour territory has all been drowned out entirely by the above over the past 5 years now. The Tories haven't even been 'governing' since 2016, and they haven't had to. Its a shocking indictment of the state of political debate and discourse.

Switch "immigrants and the EU" to "English and Westminster".

Swap "Boris" with "Nicola"

[D Angelo Barksdale]

2 seats Jeremy ? 2 ? That's insane.

[Detournement]

The fact Boris is still polling equal to both Cameron's wins despite the pandemic is pretty depressing.

As mentioned above politics has been removed from politics and now it's pretty much just about identity and language. There was a period at the start of pandemic when it looked like attitudes to public spending might shift but that has been well truly forgotten about now and it'll be back to the necessity of austerity from Boris, Keir and Nicola (via SGC) as soon as the vaccines are distributed.

[Guest Jedi]

Lib Dems have suffered an astonishing slump from where they were in 2005 right enough. For any party to so completely misread public opinion, both in 2010 and again in 2019. They had a great opportunity in 2010 to influence parliament by not going into coalition with the Tories. Rather, they could have been power brokers, exerting pressure on the Tories from the 'outside'. Only voting with them when it was in the best interests of the country, and voting with Labour when that was more suitable. It could well have dampened austerity, as the Tories would have been running as a minority govt, and wouldn't have to been able to get their austerity budgets through. The Libs would then have been in a much stronger position electorally in 2015.

Then again in 2019 when it was a Brexit election, to enter it promising to revoke Article 50 without even a 2nd Ref, was madness, making them appear undemocratic in the eyes of the public. 

They have now shown themselves to be too untrustworthy to command any public support...unable to break through with 'Remainers' and still not forgotten for enabling the Tories to do their worst from 2010-15.No way back for them.

[Fullerene]

5 minutes ago, Jedi said:

Lib Dems have suffered an astonishing slump from where they were in 2005 right enough. For any party to so completely misread public opinion, both in 2010 and again in 2019. They had a great opportunity in 2010 to influence parliament by not going into coalition with the Tories. Rather, they could have been power brokers, exerting pressure on the Tories from the 'outside'. Only voting with them when it was in the best interests of the country, and voting with Labour when that was more suitable. It could well have dampened austerity, as the Tories would have been running as a minority govt, and wouldn't have to been able to get their austerity budgets through. The Libs would then have been in a much stronger position electorally in 2015.

Then again in 2019 when it was a Brexit election, to enter it promising to revoke Article 50 without even a 2nd Ref, was madness, making them appear undemocratic in the eyes of the public. 

They have now shown themselves to be too untrustworthy to command any public support...unable to break through with 'Remainers' and still not forgotten for enabling the Tories to do their worst from 2010-15.No way back for them.

In 2005, the Lib Dems got votes from Labour supporters who opposed the Iraq War.  Maybe they got votes from Tory voters who opposed the Iraq War as well.

You are right.  In 2010, they could have done to David Cameron what the DUP did to Theresa May. The DUP continued to sit on the opposition benches throughout while Nick Clegg was quite happy to sit on David Cameron's knee.  Nothing about the coalition benefitted the Lib Dems at all.  They were seen as too cosy with the Tories while David Cameron was quite happy to undermine them, such as his attack on any change to the voting system.

IMO whenever somebody is asked how they will vote, they will answer as if the next question is "why?"  At the moment, I can't think of a possible answer to that one.

  

[D Angelo Barksdale]

[DiegoDiego]

Fun fact, his Mrs is the one being sung about in Pulp's Common People.

[Suspect Device]

20 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said:

23 minutes ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

Fun fact, his Mrs is the one being sung about in Pulp's Common People.

 

 

Is this another one of those facts that are just made up or is it verifiable?

 

I'll answer my own question.

Greek finance minister responds to claim that wife was inspiration behind Pulp hit | Pulp | The Guardian

 

 

Edited January 3, 2021 by Suspect Device

[BFTD]

 

1 hour ago, Fullerene said:

You are right.  In 2010, they could have done to David Cameron what the DUP did to Theresa May. The DUP continued to sit on the opposition benches throughout while Nick Clegg was quite happy to sit on David Cameron's knee.  Nothing about the coalition benefitted the Lib Dems at all.  They were seen as too cosy with the Tories while David Cameron was quite happy to undermine them, such as his attack on any change to the voting system.

A cynic might suggest that the idea was for individuals to benefit from being part of an actual government, with all the contacts and influence that brings.

Certainly makes more sense than anything else about that inglorious outing.

[GordonS]

9 hours ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

2 seats Jeremy ? 2 ? That's insane.

In fairness, that 11% in a national poll could turn into 2 seats is a clear sign of the utter ridiculousness of our electoral system. They should be over 60 seats.

It's indefensible.

[Detournement]

1 minute ago, GordonS said:

In fairness, that 11% in a national poll could turn into 2 seats is a clear sign of the utter ridiculousness of our electoral system. They should be over 60 seats.

It's indefensible.

Nah people that vote Lib Dem deserve f**k all.

[BFTD]

5 minutes ago, GordonS said:

In fairness, that 11% in a national poll could turn into 2 seats is a clear sign of the utter ridiculousness of our electoral system. They should be over 60 seats.

It's indefensible.

11% for the Lib Dems these days is utterly indefensible, I agree.

The major downside to PR would be seeing terrible Commons diatribes from Farage on the news every night. Although charting Widdecombe losing her mind would be great.

Spoiler

 

[Antlion]

16 minutes ago, BFTD said:

11% for the Lib Dems these days is utterly indefensible, I agree.

The major downside to PR would be seeing terrible Commons diatribes from Farage on the news every night. Although charting Widdecombe losing her mind would be great.

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That looks like the unholy offspring which would have resulted had Jimmy Savile managed to impregnate one of the corpses he diddled in the early sixties.

[Granny Danger]

The comments section for this Herald article makes Daily Mail and Daily Express readers look like flaming liberals.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18983683.nicola-sturgeon-address-recalled-holyrood-raising-prospect-tougher-anti-covid-measures-scotland/
 

 

[GordonS]

13 hours ago, Detournement said:

Nah people that vote Lib Dem deserve f**k all.

You're either for democracy or you're not.

In 2010 the SNP got 6 seats in Scotland while the Lib Dems got 11, though the parties got very similar numbers of votes. That pattern had been typical since 1983.

[NotThePars]

2 hours ago, GordonS said:

You're either for democracy or you're not.

In 2010 the SNP got 6 seats in Scotland while the Lib Dems got 11, though the parties got very similar numbers of votes. That pattern had been typical since 1983.

Then I guess we're not for democracy! f**k Lib Dem voters. All my homies hate Lib Dem voters.