General Politics Thread

[Hillonearth]

4 hours ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

5 hours ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

The question of context is perfectly correct.
These women may have been behaving violently.
One minute they are baying for equality and the next we get ‘oh, we’re nice gentle women!’

Except there's a plethora of footage from last night which clearly shows precisely zero violence from the attendees, and massive overreaction from the police. Comparing it with the treatment of football fans in Glasgow last week is not only appropriate, it is the clearest demonstration yet of how Patel wants her flagship force to operate.

It also highlights the selective nature of some policing...last week if they'd gone in in a heavy-handed manner there was a decent chance they'd have been kicked around George Square like empty tracksuits, so they didn't. Last night there was very little chance of that happening, so they chose to.

It's so often the case they'll choose the soft target...who's more likely to get lifted...two or three guys sitting with a couple of beers in the park on a sunny afternoon, or twenty neds flinging Buckie bottles outside a chippy at 11pm?

[ICTChris]

The allegations against Patrick Grady were allegedly brought up by Alex Salmond to Nicola Sturgeon in the meeting they had to discuss the allegations against Alex Salmond.

https://www.sundaypost.com/fp/sturgeon-patrick-grady/

[Dawson Park Boy]

5 minutes ago, Hillonearth said:

It also highlights the selective nature of some policing...last week if they'd gone in in a heavy-handed manner there was a decent chance they'd have been kicked around George Square like empty tracksuits, so they didn't. Last night there was very little chance of that happening, so they chose to.

It's so often the case they'll choose the soft target...who's more likely to get lifted...two or three guys sitting with a couple of beers in the park on a sunny afternoon, or twenty neds flinging Buckie bottles outside a chippy at 11pm?

A lot of things come into play here.

Equality under the law

Practicality of action.

Behaviour of the crowd

Regarding the Rangers response, the police had absolutely no chance unless they brought in water cannon, armoured cars, heavy force, etc. I recall Boris bought water cannon for use in quelling riots in London but the furore was so great that they couldn’t be used.

Regarding last night, the problem was the ludicrous Covid laws which are a stain on the fundamental freedoms of citizens of this country. Having seen the pictures, there didn’t appear to be any public order problem, so, in that case, the police actions were heavy handed. However, they are tasked with upholding the law, so they are left in an impossible position. What do they do? It’s all very well ranting and raving about police actions but it’s the politicians to blame for putting them in impossible situations.

People like myself get annoyed with BLM , antifa and statue toppling demos but it’s not easy to come up with a solution that satisfies upholding the law, allowing peaceful demonstrations and addressing the practical problems facing the police in dealing with these events.

No easy answer

[ICTChris]

Imagine getting grassed up for being a groper by Alex Salmond. Minter.

[Ludo*1]

Alex Salmond is flapping about like a big fat beached seal here. I have massive respect for what Salmond has done in politics, but FFS, these 'leaks' are dreadful.

[SANTAN]

Jess Phillips on Andrew Marr saying that by in large the work done in the pandemic was by women. 

Seems a strange claim to me. 

[jakedee]

A lot of things come into play here.
Equality under the law
Practicality of action.
Behaviour of the crowd
Regarding the Rangers response, the police had absolutely no chance unless they brought in water cannon, armoured cars, heavy force, etc. I recall Boris bought water cannon for use in quelling riots in London but the furore was so great that they couldn’t be used.
Regarding last night, the problem was the ludicrous Covid laws which are a stain on the fundamental freedoms of citizens of this country. Having seen the pictures, there didn’t appear to be any public order problem, so, in that case, the police actions were heavy handed. However, they are tasked with upholding the law, so they are left in an impossible position. What do they do? It’s all very well ranting and raving about police actions but it’s the politicians to blame for putting them in impossible situations.
People like myself get annoyed with BLM , antifa and statue toppling demos but it’s not easy to come up with a solution that satisfies upholding the law, allowing peaceful demonstrations and addressing the practical problems facing the police in dealing with these events.
No easy answer

It wasn't the "furore" that prevented the use of water cannon, but the law.
Another good use of taxpayers money.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/nov/19/boris-johnson-unused-water-cannon-sold-for-scrap-at-300000-loss

[topcat(The most tip top)]

14 hours ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

16 hours ago, Baxter Parp said:

OK.  A copper killed a woman and the women decided to have a vigil for her so the cops broke it up violently. It's not a good look.

Compare and contrast with the treatment afforded the the rangers fans in Glasgow last week, and it looks even worse. 

The apparent disparity had produced online outrage from feminists angry that the London Vigil wasn't dealt with as sympathetically as the Rangers celebrations and Celtic fans angry that the Rangers fans weren't subjected to disproportionate police brutality.

 

 

[tamthebam]

18 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

The apparent disparity had produced online outrage from feminists angry that the London Vigil wasn't dealt with as sympathetically as the Rangers celebrations and Celtic fans angry that the Rangers fans weren't subjected to disproportionate police brutality.

 

 

The feminists have a point but different legal systems, different laws, different police between London and Glasgow.

FWIW I'm angry that Celtic and Rangers weren't treated equally

I.e. given the full Judge Dredd treatment!

[Detournement]

https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/19157771.plea-citizens-do-bit-clean-glasgow-council/

Susan Aitken is the political equivalent of one those manky b*****ds on a Channel 5 show who has a rubbish from a Chippy which which closed three years ago in her living room.

I don't live in Glasgow and I can't really rate the SNP council performance but the city is fucking filthy.

[Detournement]

3 minutes ago, Pato said:

Bit rich of them to do this the week after they reduced bin collections to once every 3 weeks

Quote

£800,000 is being used to take on 16 neighbourhood co-ordinators.

Each neighbourhood will have £50 grand worth of co-ordination though so it will be fine.

[BFTD]

Just get the Queen to visit when it's on. All the serfs like to get the mops & buckets out to stop her seeing a bit of dirt.

[Gordon EF]

9 hours ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

The apparent disparity had produced online outrage from feminists angry that the London Vigil wasn't dealt with as sympathetically as the Rangers celebrations and Celtic fans angry that the Rangers fans weren't subjected to disproportionate police brutality.

 

 

The two crowds weren't remotely comparable but a lot of the anger has basically come from putting photographs side by side that seem to show very different responses. Could be wrong but I read there were 29 arrests made at George Square and 4 at Clapham Common, which doesn't suggest that the response was particularly disproportionately heavy handed at Clapham Common.

That said, I understand why the police take the view that it's not their job to make law but enforce it, but the much more sensible approach would surely just to have let the vigil go on unhindered unless it was in serious danger of getting out of control. It doesn't take much to realise it was going to be a seriously bad look.

[renton]

33 minutes ago, Pato said:

On a bit of a tangent, I never understand why these climate conferences are always held either in nice temperate places or the depths of winter. Surely if you held it in the centre of Saudi Arabia in July that might focus some minds.

Or a beach in Micronesia.

[Thistle_do_nicely]

1 hour ago, Pato said:

Bit rich of them to do this the week after they reduced bin collections to once every 3 weeks

This. The green bin here now gets emptied once a month most months 

It wouldn't be so bad if there was an increase in the blue bin collections to make up for it but they've stayed the same, once a fortnight.

[Sherrif John Bunnell]

The longest ever period without a by-election is about to end:

It could be a massive minter for Sir Kieth.

[G51]

6 minutes ago, Sherrif John Bunnell said:

The longest ever period without a by-election is about to end:

It could be a massive minter for Sir Kieth.

Was just about to post this. Labour are going to get absolutely fucking bodied.

[tamthebam]

On 15/03/2021 at 08:47, Detournement said:

https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/19157771.plea-citizens-do-bit-clean-glasgow-council/

Susan Aitken is the political equivalent of one those manky b*****ds on a Channel 5 show who has a rubbish from a Chippy which which closed three years ago in her living room.

I don't live in Glasgow and I can't really rate the SNP council performance but the city is fucking filthy.

People make Glasgow...............a fucking tip. 

If the opposition are looking for a winning slogan though:

[SANTAN]

Just finished a documentary I had missed on Iplayer about Cameron and his years in charge. 

Nothing too exciting in there that we don't know already, it amused me when he said that since 2012 they were planning on a potential EU referendum, certain posters on here seem to think it was only ever apparent after 2014... 

Also I admired his lack of remorse over holding a referendum in the first place, I always think it's unfair that that's what people demonise him over, there's plenty of other avenues to go down! Weirdly the first part of the documentary was about the referendum then the second part was about the years leading up to that, it makes no sense to me. 

Lastly I did enjoy the idea that even Osbourne was telling Clegg not to vote on the Uni fees and he still went for it, was there anything going through their minds other than power at that time? 

[NotThePars]

3 hours ago, Stormzy said:

Lastly I did enjoy the idea that even Osbourne was telling Clegg not to vote on the Uni fees and he still went for it, was there anything going through their minds other than power at that time? 

I read about that in the LRB. I guess you have to factor in that Cameron might've been making it up but if it's true then it just highlights how utterly out of his depth that Clegg was.