General Politics Thread

[carpetmonster]

Just now, Duries Air Freshener said:

I hate to disappoint

 

[Granny Danger]

3 hours ago, Cardle is Magic said:

Seeing as he doesn't have a uterus then his opinion on abortion is completely fucking irrelevant tbh.

He has a vagina.

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry, that should read ‘he is a vagina’.

 

 

[Benjamin_Nevis]

Men have as much right to care about the unborn as women.
If you can’t handle that; tough.

People are able to reach different conclusions on a whole range of issues, with or without the majority of the public agreeing with them.
It's called free will.

My counter to that is that it's an unborn child we're talking about.. not a woman's body.  Unless the mother has two sets of DNA, twenty fingers and twenty toes of course.
Also, there are already restrictions on abortions written into UK law.  So, going by your logic, we'd allow abortion right up 'til birth?  I mean, it's up to the mother how she copes with her pregnancy after all..

I hate to disappoint, but there was no strawman.
My question to WhiteRose was based on his assertion that how a 'woman's body' is treated is up to her and only her.
It's not though.  Restrictions exist are these are enshrined in law.

You're either a try-hard troll, or a crushingly lonely creep.

Which is it?

Scratch that, "both" is the clear answer.

[Duries Air Freshener]

43 minutes ago, Day of the Lords said:

You're either a try-hard troll, or a crushingly lonely creep.

Which is it?

Scratch that, "both" is the clear answer.
 

There's genuinely no point in responding to this nonsense.

I'm up for reasonable, rational debate.. not childish, nasty insults.

I refer you to Div's sticky

[WhiteRoseKillie]

3 hours ago, Duries Air Freshener said:

My counter to that is that it's an unborn child we're talking about.. not a woman's body.  Unless the mother has two sets of DNA, twenty fingers and twenty toes of course.

Also, there are already restrictions on abortions written into UK law.  So, going by your logic, we'd allow abortion right up 'til birth?  I mean, it's up to the mother how she copes with her pregnancy after all..

reductio ad absurdio is never a good look, laddie. In actual fact, if you'd think about what others posted, there can be occasions where decisions may well have to be made to save the mother's life when actually in labour*. Is that close enough to birth for you?

*The medical term for the period when the body prepares to give birth. Can be quite traumatic, as I can attest.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

2 hours ago, Duries Air Freshener said:

I hate to disappoint, but there was no strawman.

My question to WhiteRose was based on his assertion that how a 'woman's body' is treated is up to her and only her.

It's not though.  Restrictions exist are these are enshrined in law.

You know what I said about actually reading the posts of others? Now, show me where I said this. No rush. In your own time. When you're ready.

(You'll note that, unlike your erroneous accusation, my post which you obviously struggled to comprehend was not edited, so don't try that excuse)

[D Angelo Barksdale]

UK law ensures women have safe and affordable access to abortion, saving countless women's lives over the years and ensuring others don't have to go through the trauma of carrying to term the product of rape or incest.

That's not changing anytime soon, no matter how much certain people howl at the moon.

[Duries Air Freshener]

10 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

reductio ad absurdio is never a good look, laddie. In actual fact, if you'd think about what others posted, there can be occasions where decisions may well have to be made to save the mother's life when actually in labour*. Is that close enough to birth for you?

*The medical term for the period when the body prepares to give birth. Can be quite traumatic, as I can attest.

After a decent start, you've descended into sarcasm and arrogance.  I did think it was too good to be true.  Anyway, I won't be responding in the same manner as it's not my style.

I've never said abortion shouldn't be allowed to save the mother's life, so the above is irrelevant.

 

7 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

You know what I said about actually reading the posts of others? Now, show me where I said this. (My question to WhiteRose was based on his assertion that how a 'woman's body' is treated is up to her and only her.) No rush. In your own time. When you're ready.

(You'll note that, unlike your erroneous accusation, my post which you obviously struggled to comprehend was not edited, so don't try that excuse)

Gladly.

4 hours ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

How a woman's body is treated should be the preserve of that woman, and no-one else.

Anyway, you've not answered my point about the early stage human not actually being part of the mother's body.  Also, do you believe in abortion right up til birth?

[WhiteRoseKillie]

Well, this latest troll is even thicker than pepp, oaksoft and AWRA put together. I simply can't maintain a discussion with someone with this level of comprehension. Shame for the lad that Club Penguin is defunct, really. 

He even quoted me, obviously believing that "should" = "is". A sad indictment of a once-great education system.

[carpetmonster]

18 minutes ago, Duries Air Freshener said:

 

 

 

Anyway, you've not answered my point about the early stage human not actually being part of the mother's body.  

Cool, haul it out of there and see how well it does then. 

[WhiteRoseKillie]

Just now, carpetmonster said:

Cool, haul it out of there and see how well it does then. 

I'd have suggested he ask his Biology teacher, but not sure he's got to that advanced stage yet. 

[Duries Air Freshener]

2 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

Well, this latest troll is even thicker than pepp, oaksoft and AWRA put together. I simply can't maintain a discussion with someone with this level of comprehension. Shame for the lad that Club Penguin is defunct, really. 

He even quoted me, obviously believing that "should" = "is". A sad indictment of a once-great education system.

In other words, you can’t answer the questions put to you.

Shame.

[Duries Air Freshener]

3 minutes ago, carpetmonster said:

Cool, haul it out of there and see how well it does then. 

Why?  It wouldn’t prove it either way.

[Duries Air Freshener]

11 minutes ago, carpetmonster said:

Medics can't detect brain activity in the fetus until 28 weeks, which is 4 weeks after the time that abortion is generally permitted. In an adult patient, if no brain activity is detected, medics would generally advise switching the life support machine off. Or making accounts to post on the politics boards of Scottish fitba forums. 

Whether one has brain activity doesn’t determine whether he or she is a life, part of the mother’s body or most importantly, has intrinsic value.

you’re completely wrong with your 28 week claim anyway.. it’s a lot earlier

https://www.healthline.com/health/when-does-a-fetus-develop-a-brain

https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/19/books/chapters/the-ethical-brain.html

Try reducing your claim by about 23 weeks

The life support machine example is ridiculous considering the adult is at the end of their life, not the beginning.

Nice try though.

Edited May 11, 2022 by Duries Air Freshener

[carpetmonster]

2 minutes ago, Duries Air Freshener said:

.

The life support machine example is ridiculous considering the adult is at the end of their life, not the beginning.

Nice try though.

And if a fetus has abnormalities that means it won’t live to full term then it’s also at the end of its life - should you be defining it is a separate person at that stage. I’m sure pushing out a stillbirth would be much less traumatic than a safe medical procedure and not add yet more trauma onto trauma tho. 

[Duries Air Freshener]

5 minutes ago, carpetmonster said:

And if a fetus has abnormalities that means it won’t live to full term then it’s also at the end of its life - should you be defining it is a separate person at that stage. I’m sure pushing out a stillbirth would be much less traumatic than a safe medical procedure and not add yet more trauma onto trauma tho. 

A foetus with abnormalities is absolutely a different person to the mother, why wouldn’t they be?

I’ve not touched on the issue of whether abortion is moral in the case of feotal abnormalities though, so the abortion vs stillbirth example is pointless.

Decent deflection tactic though, and you’ve still left my points unanswered.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

Foetal viability is roughly 23-24 weeks, so we can safely conclude that it is 'part' of the mother until then at the very least.

[welshbairn]

3 hours ago, Duries Air Freshener said:

I hate to disappoint, but there was no strawman.

My question to WhiteRose was based on his assertion that how a 'woman's body' is treated is up to her and only her.

It's not though.  Restrictions exist are these are enshrined in law.

Why not lay out what laws you'd like to protect and balance the rights of both the foetus and the mother, and give up this incessant trolling and raising strawmen for a bit. Then you might actually get this civilised debate you keep pining for.

Edited May 11, 2022 by welshbairn

[D Angelo Barksdale]

1 minute ago, welshbairn said:

Why not lay out what laws you'd like to protect and balance the rights of both the foetus and the mother, and give up this incessant trolling and raising strawmen for a bit. Then you might actually get this civilised debate you keep pining for.

Where's the fun in that though ?

[MONKMAN]

Genuine question here.  I assume these anti-abortion nut jobs crawled out of the woodwork recently, as a result of what’s going on in the Supreme Court in America?