Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[ONeils40yarder]

Would have fancied seeing the two of them in the same team to be fair

[Swello]

49 minutes ago, Desp said:

Agree with this.  Higdon > Moult.

Thursday afternoon debate fodder

I tend to agree BTW - but Higdon played in a 'Well team that was fucking light years ahead of the teams that Moult played in.  In terms of hold up play, he was by far the best that I've seen at Fir Park and only behind Coyne in my favourite strikers list. That's no slight on Moult who is also very near the top of the list and in terms of effort is very difficult to top...

[capt_oats]

24 minutes ago, Swello said:

Thursday afternoon debate fodder

I tend to agree BTW - but Higdon played in a 'Well team that was fucking light years ahead of the teams that Moult played in.  In terms of hold up play, he was by far the best that I've seen at Fir Park and only behind Coyne in my favourite strikers list. That's no slight on Moult who is also very near the top of the list and in terms of effort is very difficult to top...

Agree with that tbh.

Also on the point about the team Higdon was playing in, after I posted that video earlier I had a quick check to see what Ojamaa was up to following his shitemare with Dundee and fairly underwhelming return in our play-off season. He's currently plying his trade in the 2nd tier in Croatia (out of contract at the end of the season too).

[Busta Nut]

9 hours ago, ONeils40yarder said:

Higdon - easily one of my favourite players to ever play for Motherwell, absolutely tremendous

 

9 hours ago, Desp said:

Agree with this.  Higdon > Moult.

100%

 

Loved big Higgy.

[Al B]

Michael Higdon is my all-time favorite Motherwell player.

[YassinMoutaouakil]

Weird. I liked Higdon as a player for us but never really thought of him as anything more than a Motherwell player who had one absolutely sensational season and one decent one. Moult, due to his rapport with our fanbase(arguably helped by the rise of social media) and ridiculous record in big games will see him go down as a Motherwell legend imo, despite objectively achieving less than Higdon.

 

tbf my McCall hatred has possibly coloured my whole perception of that era 

Edited March 30, 2018 by YassinMoutaouakil

[Al B]

See I'm probably the polar opposite of that view...i have Facebook that's pretty tight to family and close friends, no twitter...no insta...no anything else, so I'm completely unaware of anything that happens on social media. I couldn't tell you the first thing about Louis Moult or any of our other players outside of what I see during games, and, also now Youtube since the club have stepped up their #content recently. (I do know what a hashtag is).

[RandomGuy.]

Tommy Wright talking about you lot in the paper again today. Saying your recruitment policy is something that's encouraged both him and the chairman to start a process of hiring a "Head of Recruitment" who'd been based down South. As it is we just use contacts of the manager/coaches. 

[Desp]

The St. Johnstone side of recent times actually reminded of the way Motherwell were during the McCall time.  Great levels of consistency at the top end of the table.  Granted, I don't think they had a side that were as good to watch as the 'Well one of 12/13 (Randolph, Hutchinson, Law, Higdon, McFadden, Ojamaa etc), however, they did have a side that actually won something!

What's the feeling around Tommy Wright amongst the fans?  Certainly feels as if St. Johnstone are at the end of that cycle and need to try something new.  The Head of Recruitment has worked for us in the main (think we've brought in nearly £2m in fees from Moult, Johnson & Heneghan, plus we have the likes of Carson & Kipré who we've brought in this season who are now sellable assets) but we have had a few duds along the way, as is bound to happen at our level.

[Widge]

The squad needs freshened up certainly. As for the bringing in duds, we’ve been doing that for years anyway to no avail so I’d rather we try something like this on the off chance of a gem.

[capt_oats]

2 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

Tommy Wright talking about you lot in the paper again today. Saying your recruitment policy is something that's encouraged both him and the chairman to start a process of hiring a "Head of Recruitment" who'd been based down South. As it is we just use contacts of the manager/coaches. 

That's quite the compliment if TW is actually namechecking us.

As Desp says for all the headline signings that we've made there have been more than a few duds along the way. Even then, a lot of it is as much down to the manager as it is having a Head of Recruitment. I've mentioned on here before but the difference in recruitment and approach this season with Robinson in charge feels marked in comparison to last season when McGhee was at Fir Park. 

Since we first appointed a Head of Recruitment in the 14/15 season here are the signings we've made (granted not all will have been directly via the HoR):

14/15:
Stephen Pearson, Nathan Thomas, Scott McDonald, Marvin Johnson, Anthony Straker (loan),  Louis Laing (loan), Conor Grant (loan), George Long (loan)

15/16:
Joe Chalmers, David Clarkson, Wes Fletcher, Louis Laing, Louis Moult, Kieran Kennedy, Theo Robinson, Craig Samson, James McFadden, Conor Ripley (loan), Jake Taylor (loan), Liam Grimshaw (loan), Morgaro Gomis (loan)

16/17:
Ben Heneghan, Richard Tait, Jacob Blyth, Dean Brill, Carl McHugh, Craig Clay, Ryan Bowman, Lee Lucas, Elliot Frear, Shea Gordon*, Stephen Pearson, Luka Belic (loan), Russell Griffiths (loan), Zak Jules (loan), Oliver Pain (loan)*
* = signed for u20s

17/18:
Alex Fisher, Gael Bigrimana, Craig Tanner, Trevor Carson, Andy Rose, Russell Griffiths, Charles Dunne, Cedric Kipré, George Newell, Ellis Plummer, Rohan Ferguson, Deimantas Petravicius, Liam Grimshaw, Gennadious Xenodochof, Curtis Main, Peter Hartley, Tom Aldred (loan), Nadir Ciftci (loan), Stephen Hendrie (loan).

That's a lot of players (55). What's interesting (to me anyway) is that the 16/17 recruitment would generally have been looked at as having been poor with the likes of Blyth, Lucas, Clay, Jules and Belic all catching the eye as having been particularly terrible there are still half a dozen or so who are regularly involved in the 1st team. In fact, Carl McHugh's the captain and Richard Tait has turned into an excellent signing with Robinson in charge, we brought in £300k+ for Ben Heneghan while Elliot Frear, Ryan Bowman and Russell Griffiths are still involved. Granted Griffiths' role extends to sitting on the bench but that's largely why he was signed.

It feels like the failures from last season (along with the final league position) definitely overshadowed the relative successes.

Looking at the recruitment this season with Tanner, Carson, Dunne, Kipré, Main, Hartley and Aldred all having been qualified successes and the majority of others fall into the "done a job" category it feels like it's taken a while for us to find a beat with recruitment and again, for me that's as much to do with the change in manager.

I don't know for certain but the impression I get looking at things in hindsight is that McGhee just got lazy. There's every chance he was just picking names off a list he'd been given and perhaps a cursory glance at some WyScout footage. In contrast Robinson seems far more engaged, with a clear vision of what he needs and has a far better awareness of what players are available.

It's also telling that the majority of Robinson's signings are from further up the league pyramid in England (mostly League 1). We seem to have consciously shifted away from recruiting in non-league down south. The majority of the headlines we've made have been from picking up non-league "gems" like Marvin Johnson, Louis Moult and Ben Heneghan however by and large that seems to be something we've moved away from.

Edited March 30, 2018 by capt_oats

[AndyRoss]

Allan Campbell hasn’t trained this week and is a doubt for tomorrow, Nadir Ciftci is out with an ankle knock.

[capt_oats]

2 minutes ago, AndyRoss said:

Allan Campbell hasn’t trained this week and is a doubt for tomorrow, Nadir Ciftci is out with an ankle knock.

It's Bowman's time to shine lads.

[Desp]

Campbell being out tomorrow would be a blow.  There's not really a like-for-like replacement for him.  For me, Grimshaw isn't quite good enough but he could take on the annoying wee fucker role easily enough, although his distribution is poor.  You could put Andy Rose in there for some physicality, but he's not remotely close to the player Campbell is and again, I don't he's great with the ball.

Ciftci being out can be covered with Bad News Bowman stepping up.  Hopefully he's mentally strong enough to go out and show what he can do.  The Rangers fans will no doubt give him the treatment, for having the audacity to accidently elbow a Rangers player that even the Rangers fans think is shite, but hopefully BNB can stick it to them with a goal or two.

If Campbell is indeed out, I'd go;

                                     Carson

                      Kipré  Aldred  Dunne

Tait  Grimshaw  Cadden  McHugh  Frear

                           Bowman  Main

[capt_oats]

2 hours ago, Desp said:

Campbell being out tomorrow would be a blow.  There's not really a like-for-like replacement for him.  For me, Grimshaw isn't quite good enough but he could take on the annoying wee fucker role easily enough, although his distribution is poor.  You could put Andy Rose in there for some physicality, but he's not remotely close to the player Campbell is and again, I don't he's great with the ball.

Ciftci being out can be covered with Bad News Bowman stepping up.  Hopefully he's mentally strong enough to go out and show what he can do.  The Rangers fans will no doubt give him the treatment, for having the audacity to accidently elbow a Rangers player that even the Rangers fans think is shite, but hopefully BNB can stick it to them with a goal or two.

If Campbell is indeed out, I'd go;

                                     Carson

                      Kipré  Aldred  Dunne

Tait  Grimshaw  Cadden  McHugh  Frear

                           Bowman  Main

Rose also has a fractured knee-cap.

It seems unlikely but I wondered if we might just go baws-oot and replace Campbell with Bigi. Not taking any chances with Campbell given there's a cup semi-final coming up (that McHugh will miss) seems like the smart thing to do. It also feels like we've got Bigi on a 2 year deal we might as well at least take a look and see if he has something to offer.

Other than that the team pretty much picks itself IMO (and it's exactly the same as yours Desp).

Carson
Kipré Aldred Dunne
Tait Cadden McHugh Bigirimana Frear
Bowman Main

Here's Robinson's pre-match:

Edit to add: it's interesting to hear him reference the December Slump and suggest that it showed that the make up and depth of the squad "isn't quite where we want it at the moment" and that it's something that he'll have to address in the summer.

Also, it sounds like he's saying Ciftci's available (2:45) "Nadir Ciftci's obviously comes back involved agains having not been able to play against Celtic".

Further edit: I see the Ciftci news probably came after the press conference going by Gavin McCafferty's tweet.

Edited March 30, 2018 by capt_oats

[Desp]

I was racking my brains thinking of central midfield options, and I completely forgot about Bigi!  If the manager really does start Grimshaw ahead of Bigirimana, then the writing really is on the wall for him and he'll be on his way in the summer.

[capt_oats]

21 minutes ago, Desp said:

I was racking my brains thinking of central midfield options, and I completely forgot about Bigi!  If the manager really does start Grimshaw ahead of Bigirimana, then the writing really is on the wall for him and he'll be on his way in the summer.

Aye, I mean Grimshaw is probably more like-for-like with Campbell so I'd understand that logic but as part of a broader conversation Bigi's made 19 league appearances this season, only 9 of them have been starts. It's not too much of a stretch to ask where he fits in generally.

Even more so when you hear Robinson talking about the balance of the squad in his press conference.

[Casagolda]

I think it’s interesting he’s referred to it as a ‘December Slump’.

We’ve won 4(Four) of our last 20 league games, having won 6 of the opening 10. 

It’s probably fair to say if it wasn’t for our run to the Scottish Cup Semi, a few more questions would probably be being asked of our league form. 

Edited March 30, 2018 by Casagolda

[Radford]

4 hours ago, Desp said:

What's the feeling around Tommy Wright amongst the fans? 

The success or failure of this if it happens (and the manager still has to convince the chairman) won't hinge on Tommy Wright but on Steve Brown. And obviously the HoR not being a muppet.

For a while now, Wright has spoken about changing the squad yet only two of his last dozen signings have been long-term permanent deals for players he's properly targeted. I think we know enough about TW to make the case that that's probably not what he considers reshaping a squad with extra quality. The problem is, my guess, that Saints can't compete with peer clubs for the players that everyone knows about, unless they work really hard on the deal. Wright spoke last May about the need for a striker; I don't suppose Denny Johnstone on loan in late August was the name at the top of his list. Maybe the hope is a HoR will identify available players early on that the whole league doesn't know about.

[capt_oats]

37 minutes ago, Casagolda said:

I think it’s interesting he’s referred to it as a ‘December Slump’.

We’ve won 4(Four) of our last 20 league games, having won 6 of the opening 10. 

It’s probably fair to say if it wasn’t for our run to the Scottish Cup Semi, a few more questions would probably be being asked of our league form. 

Agree with that. Though it's worth mentioning that 7 of those 20 games were in December.

It's a weird thing to talk about without it sounding like excuses as you can slice it up and spin it whichever way you want. If you were to take that December run out and just look post-winter break then we've lost 3 in 9 league games though equally we've only won 3. Nevertheless compared to where we were directly before the break we're clearly better off but similarly it does feel that the good form at the start of the season is still what's putting a gloss on things (along with the cup run).

There's also an underlying feeling that there's a bit of "if your auntie had baws..."-type arguments to be made. In that December period we didn't pick up 3 wins we probably had earmarked (Thistle, Dundee and Accies, 2 of which were at home as well) 3 wins there along with the results post-break would have us firmly in the Top 6 conversation but we didn't win them so it's a largely redundant argument.

However, it kind of feels like that's why he's pointing to December specifically. Add in the cup games since the break and our form looks fine (P 12 W 6, D 3, L 3), take those games out and it's better than it was through December but still not as good as it was in the opening stages of the season.

Edited March 30, 2018 by capt_oats