Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[YassinMoutaouakil]

please

[well fan for life]

At this point I'd take a one legged Carson, a broken Scott Fox or a traffic cone with a pair of Sondico goalie gloves sellotaped to it ahead of Chapman.

['WellDel]

2 minutes ago, ropy said:

I posted that somewhere too.  But I feel I’ve never seen him two games in a row.  Everyone else has had a chance to fail, why not him?

It's a strange one. After the initial couple of games to get used to the tempo and style of play up here he's looked at least decent, unlike Lamie and Mugabi who are way out of their depth yet continue to get game time in front of him. I just don't get it. 

We need to fix it from back to front. Somehow we need to become tough at the back and stop leaking soft goals then work from there. Big Dec is a class defender, but he's not a leader. No shouting and no marshalling his defence. The difference when Carson was in goals the other night barking orders was noticeable. When things are going tits up we need someone to drag the rest on. How much would we give for an Aldred or a Hartley just now? 

 

[YassinMoutaouakil]

It's mental that we played a half of football last year with a Mugabi-Manzinga strike partnership and it wasn't even anything close to a nadir.

[well fan for life]

2 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

nadir.

[capt_oats]

11 hours ago, Swello said:

Covid may have accelerated it but I assumed that the success of bringing in Gallagher and Polworth last season made us look at more Scottish based players. 

I think that's definitely part of it but the other thing is that the majority of the squad that did well last season are still at the club. I don't think this Summer was meant to be about anything other than making a couple of tweaks so the upshot was signing a bunch of filler. The decision to pie Tait and Hartley is looking pretty fucking dumb now (or at least the decision to replace one of them with Ricki Lamie is).

Looking at our team from the first half of the season that got us 3rd* it was a consistent:

Gillespie
Grimshaw Gallagher Hartley Carroll
Campbell Donnelly Polworth
Scott Long Cole

8 of that XI are still in the building. I'd imagine the intended changes were Carson for Gillespie, McGinley for Hartley and Lang/Hastie for Scott (& Cole given he didn't arrive back until later this season).

It was a rehash of the 12-18 debacle of 18/19 only much, much worse because there's been a massive dip in the players we at least expected to maintain their performances:

Grimshaw - form went off a cliff at right back
Gallagher - hasn't looked anything like the player from last season
Carroll - his rehab was 2 months behind, he was expected back in Sept.
Campbell - has been one of the few pass marks
Donnelly - injured since the first game of the season
Polworth - a flaky player at the best of times but again, like Gallagher he's been nothing like the player he was last season.
Long - HAHAHAHAHAHA, Jesus Fucking Christ
Cole - shown fits and starts but was miles behind everyone else by the time he signed.

Add all that up and yeah it's problematic but the recruitment and the players we signed suggest (to me at least) that we weren't considering there would be a regression to the extent there has been or the sort of injuries to Carson or Donnelly.

Edited January 3, 2021 by capt_oats

[welldaft]

9 hours ago, well fan for life said:

At this point I'd take a one legged Carson, a broken Scott Fox or a traffic cone with a pair of Sondico goalie gloves sellotaped to it ahead of Chapman.

I think you are on to something. I am confident the traffic cone would have saved the 2nd goal from yesterday. Plus there would be zero wages to pay. Just the gloves to buy. 

Edited January 3, 2021 by welldaft

[RandomGuy.]

2 minutes ago, welldaft said:

I think you are on to something. I am confident the traffic cone would have saved the 2nd goal from yesterday. Plus there would be zero wages to pay. Just the gloves to buy. 

You'd have to pay a clean sheet bonus after you've played us though, for tax reasons.

[well fan for life]

55 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

I think that's definitely part of it but the other thing is that the majority of the squad that did well last season is still at the club. I don't think this Summer was meant to be about anything other than making a couple of tweaks so the upshot was signing a bunch of filler. The decision to pie Tait and Hartley is looking pretty fucking dumb now (or at least the decision to replace one of them with Ricki Lamie is).

Looking at our team from the first half of the season that got us 3rd* it was a consistent:

Gillespie
Grimshaw Gallagher Hartley Carroll
Campbell Donnelly Polworth
Scott Long Cole

8 of that XI are still in the building. I'd imagine the intended changes were Carson for Gillespie, McGinley for Hartley and Lang/Hastie for Scott (& Cole given he didn't arrive back until later this season).

It was a rehash of the 12-18 debacle of 18/19 only much, much worse because there's been a massive dip in the players we at least expected to maintain their performances:

Grimshaw - form went off a cliff at right back
Gallagher - hasn't looked anything like the player from last season
Carroll - his rehab was 2 months behind, he was expected back in Sept.
Campbell - has been one of the few pass marks
Donnelly - injured since the first game of the season
Polworth - a flaky player at the best of times but again, like Gallagher he's been nothing like the player he was last season.
Long - HAHAHAHAHAHA, Jesus Fucking Christ
Cole - shown fits and starts but was miles behind everyone else by the time he signed.

Add all that up and yeah it's problematic but the recruitment and the players we signed suggest (to me at least) that we weren't considering there would be a regression to the extent there has been or the sort of injuries to Carson or Donnelly.

There was a point where that Donnelly, Campbell & Polworth midfield looked so balanced. When we could bring on O'Hara to kick folk when Donnelly had been booked it was a functional team. Gallagher is like the fucking colossus in a Scotland shirt but has regressed spectacularly for us. Maybe that's because he's had the fucking Keystone Cops playing alongside him tbf.

Long can f**k off. He clearly had designs on a move down south to be paid handsomely but then covid but the kibosh on that because there is no chance he wants to be anywhere near here. He's barely played, and when he does he looks like he can't be arsed. 

Polworth's a strange one. On one hand some of his through balls last season were *chefs kiss*, but he does go off the boil. I'm not sure he fits in if there's any attempts to throw hammers. Part of his game is threading the ball through for wingers but we don't have any of those. 

[Archie McSquackle]

At the start of the season I thought McGinley was playing left-back until Carroll recovered and then he would take Lamie's place beside Gallagher. It's obviously taken a lot longer than expected to get Carroll back but,like others have said, it's very strange McGinley isn't even anywhere near the squad.

[supermarv]

Major overhaul required, we are trying to bring Rolando Aarons back on loan, a player like him/ Ariyibi we’ve missed that kind of creativity in many games this season, first and foremost we start from the back though and go back to basics, players like Grimmy etc should be hunted as well as the likes of lamie, mugabi, Chapman. Harsh reality when you look back that a club like us let go 2 leaders of our squad for a few years in Hartley and Tait to bring in far worse players.

[Swello]

It's ITK time! Shit got real, etc

Edited January 3, 2021 by Swello

[Gianfranco]

I don’t even know if Aarons was any good or not. He never got enough time really before covid hit. However, I’d take him any day of the week over Hastie, Seedorf etc.

[Marinello]

2 hours ago, capt_oats said:

I think that's definitely part of it but the other thing is that the majority of the squad that did well last season are still at the club. I don't think this Summer was meant to be about anything other than making a couple of tweaks so the upshot was signing a bunch of filler. The decision to pie Tait and Hartley is looking pretty fucking dumb now (or at least the decision to replace one of them with Ricki Lamie is).

Looking at our team from the first half of the season that got us 3rd* it was a consistent:

Gillespie
Grimshaw Gallagher Hartley Carroll
Campbell Donnelly Polworth
Scott Long Cole

8 of that XI are still in the building. I'd imagine the intended changes were Carson for Gillespie, McGinley for Hartley and Lang/Hastie for Scott (& Cole given he didn't arrive back until later this season).

It was a rehash of the 12-18 debacle of 18/19 only much, much worse because there's been a massive dip in the players we at least expected to maintain their performances:

Grimshaw - form went off a cliff at right back
Gallagher - hasn't looked anything like the player from last season
Carroll - his rehab was 2 months behind, he was expected back in Sept.
Campbell - has been one of the few pass marks
Donnelly - injured since the first game of the season
Polworth - a flaky player at the best of times but again, like Gallagher he's been nothing like the player he was last season.
Long - HAHAHAHAHAHA, Jesus Fucking Christ
Cole - shown fits and starts but was miles behind everyone else by the time he signed.

Add all that up and yeah it's problematic but the recruitment and the players we signed suggest (to me at least) that we weren't considering there would be a regression to the extent there has been or the sort of injuries to Carson or Donnelly.

Whilst not at the front of the queue to defend Lamie I think it's fair to say that he wasn't signed as a ' starter' but more as a ' back up'.

The bigger question is why Mc Ginley seems behind Lamie and Mugabi when it's patently clear he is miles better than either of them.

Oh to be a fly on the wall!

[well fan for life]

38 minutes ago, supermarv said:

Major overhaul required, we are trying to bring Rolando Aarons back on loan, a player like him/ Ariyibi we’ve missed that kind of creativity in many games this season, first and foremost we start from the back though and go back to basics, players like Grimmy etc should be hunted as well as the likes of lamie, mugabi, Chapman. Harsh reality when you look back that a club like us let go 2 leaders of our squad for a few years in Hartley and Tait to bring in far worse players.

Hartley was finished. Completely finished. His performance alongside Mugabi in the 4-4 game was just confirmation of this.

Tait would have been good to keep around. But ultimately we were trying to sign him as a back up to Grimshaw, which 6 months ago was sensible, but now seems ridiculous. No hard feelings towards him. He picked the mystery box and wound up starting every week at St Mirren.

[supermarv]

38 minutes ago, well fan for life said:

Hartley was finished. Completely finished. His performance alongside Mugabi in the 4-4 game was just confirmation of this.

Tait would have been good to keep around. But ultimately we were trying to sign him as a back up to Grimshaw, which 6 months ago was sensible, but now seems ridiculous. No hard feelings towards him. He picked the mystery box and wound up starting every week at St Mirren.

I’ll tend to agree with you there with Hartley but also he would have been good to keep around, captained the team more or less to a 3rd place finish and no doubt now a better player than Lamie. Always believed Tait was better than Grimmy, who was lucky he was playing in a team that was winning games for it not to be changed, guy has a big heart for the club but no technical ability whatsoever.

[ropy]

Big week for the club, lots could happen but do we let Hastie run at Tait?

[Gianfranco]

Big week for the club, lots could happen but do we let Hastie run at Tait?

Yes, unless we bring someone else in.

[Ron Aldo]

I'm bored and absolutely fuming at yesterday's result so I've decided to do a mid-season analysis on our current squad and who I feel is worth keeping.

Trevor Carson - one of the few to get pass marks this season but, unfortunately, keeps breaking. Keep.

Liam Grimshaw - limited ability but wears his heart on his sleeve and gives 100%. Wouldn't be a starter for me but is a decent squad player. Keep.

Jake Carroll - coming back from injury has had him thrown in at the deep end but overall he's one of our better players, particularly compared to the rest of the defence. Keep.

Ricki Lamie - one of the worst players I've seen in a 'Well shirt which is some going. Fire him right into the sun.

Nathan McGinley - yet to be convinced but certainly not the worst defender at the club (albeit the bar isn't very high). Still no idea if he's a left back or centre half. Keep.

Allan Campbell - been below par this season but undoubtedly is one of our better players. Would keep him but he'll be away in the summer so it's irrelevant really.

Mark O'Hara - flatters to deceive in my view. Calls himself a midfielder but is better in defence which sort of sums him up. Bin.

Robbie Crawford - Livi bench warmer. Bin.

Jordan White - Alex Fisher MK2 and nowhere near good enough for this level. Bin.

Jake Hastie - had 6 or 7 good games when no one knew who he was. Now people do know him and it's quite clear he's complete dug shite. Bin.

Barry Maguire - Stuart Carswell MK2. Not necessarily a bad player but I don't see what he brings to the team. I'd probably keep him around as a squad player.

Bevis Mugabi - his tea should have been oot after the St Mirren cup debacle last season but somehow he's become a regular. Lamie has probably taken some of the heat off him but there's no doubt he's rotten. Bin.

Sherwin Seedorf - runs quite fast and, ehhh, that's it. Hard to believe that there's rumours of Championship teams paying actual money for him. If we can scam someone then ideal but, if not, get him in the bin.

Liam Polworth - plays the occasional nice pass but little else. Seems clear that he disappears when the going gets tough which it most definitely is right now. Bin.

Liam Donnelly - missed him much more than I thought we would. Keep.

Declan Gallagher - see Allan Campbell.

Tony Watt - one of the few that tries hard but doesn't score enough. He's also extremely annoying on social media but, despite that, he does bring something to the team. Keep.

Stephen O'Donnell - an average Scottish full back who seems to have ended up with us as he couldn't get anywhere else. Has done nothing to back up his status as an international player. Bin.

Aaron Chapman - holy f**k. Makes Craig Samson look like Manuel Neuer. No idea how he's still masquerading as a professional goalkeeper at 30. Strap him to the same rocket as Lamie.

Devante Cole - doesn't look sharp but is undoubtedly a good player when he's 100%. Keep.

Chris Long - didn't like him last season when he was playing reasonably well and I like him even less this season given he blatantly doesn't want to be here and clearly can't be arsed. Get him to f**k.

I haven't included injured players who haven't played (Fox, Dunne) or youth players who are in the first team squad but also haven't played. I've also omitted Archer and Lang as they're already away.

But to sum up - we're pish.

[wellinwigan]

28 minutes ago, Ron Aldo said:

I'm bored and absolutely fuming at yesterday's result so I've decided to do a mid-season analysis on our current squad and who I feel is worth keeping.

Trevor Carson - one of the few to get pass marks this season but, unfortunately, keeps breaking. Keep.

Liam Grimshaw - limited ability but wears his heart on his sleeve and gives 100%. Wouldn't be a starter for me but is a decent squad player. Keep.

Jake Carroll - coming back from injury has had him thrown in at the deep end but overall he's one of our better players, particularly compared to the rest of the defence. Keep.

Ricki Lamie - one of the worst players I've seen in a 'Well shirt which is some going. Fire him right into the sun.

Nathan McGinley - yet to be convinced but certainly not the worst defender at the club (albeit the bar isn't very high). Still no idea if he's a left back or centre half. Keep.

Allan Campbell - been below par this season but undoubtedly is one of our better players. Would keep him but he'll be away in the summer so it's irrelevant really.

Mark O'Hara - flatters to deceive in my view. Calls himself a midfielder but is better in defence which sort of sums him up. Bin.

Robbie Crawford - Livi bench warmer. Bin.

Jordan White - Alex Fisher MK2 and nowhere near good enough for this level. Bin.

Jake Hastie - had 6 or 7 good games when no one knew who he was. Now people do know him and it's quite clear he's complete dug shite. Bin.

Barry Maguire - Stuart Carswell MK2. Not necessarily a bad player but I don't see what he brings to the team. I'd probably keep him around as a squad player.

Bevis Mugabi - his tea should have been oot after the St Mirren cup debacle last season but somehow he's become a regular. Lamie has probably taken some of the heat off him but there's no doubt he's rotten. Bin.

Sherwin Seedorf - runs quite fast and, ehhh, that's it. Hard to believe that there's rumours of Championship teams paying actual money for him. If we can scam someone then ideal but, if not, get him in the bin.

Liam Polworth - plays the occasional nice pass but little else. Seems clear that he disappears when the going gets tough which it most definitely is right now. Bin.

Liam Donnelly - missed him much more than I thought we would. Keep.

Declan Gallagher - see Allan Campbell.

Tony Watt - one of the few that tries hard but doesn't score enough. He's also extremely annoying on social media but, despite that, he does bring something to the team. Keep.

Stephen O'Donnell - an average Scottish full back who seems to have ended up with us as he couldn't get anywhere else. Has done nothing to back up his status as an international player. Bin.

Aaron Chapman - holy f**k. Makes Craig Samson look like Manuel Neuer. No idea how he's still masquerading as a professional goalkeeper at 30. Strap him to the same rocket as Lamie.

Devante Cole - doesn't look sharp but is undoubtedly a good player when he's 100%. Keep.

Chris Long - didn't like him last season when he was playing reasonably well and I like him even less this season given he blatantly doesn't want to be here and clearly can't be arsed. Get him to f**k.

I haven't included injured players who haven't played (Fox, Dunne) or youth players who are in the first team squad but also haven't played. I've also omitted Archer and Lang as they're already away.

But to sum up - we're pish.

100% this